[SeanW]

This is game model im doing for class on a game we are working on. Hes weighing in at 2700 polys tri'd. Always welcome to comments good or bad

[NextGen]

I like it.. great texture work. But jeez, 2700 poly's? Not a very low poly count for a game. What graphics cards are gonna be the minimum for this game? GeForce3?

[[Shizo]]

Good good!
Looks like he's gonna kick someone's ass.
Although one tiny thing you forgot.. his HEAD

[Quasar]

Next gen most of the X-box and game cube games at E3 this last year had 5000+ poly characters and the new characters going into games like Unreal and doom are 10,000 polys + so you need to get out of the quake 3 800-1000 poly mentality them days are long over 2700 polys is pretty low poly these days !!

[SeanW]

Yeah, I'm happy to say I hit under my mark for the poly count. And about the head.. Yes, he has one, some people dont really like it, just a weird concept for the alien race I came up with. He also doesnt have eyes which some people dont like. Anyway, hopefully he will be smashing things very soon

[Nicodemus]

he has an anvil for a head just kidding....but i think some people dont like it cause its humanoid and expect a head...perhaps if you made him alittle more creaturish? or put a snug helmet on? but i think its cool good work

[tomgupper]

wow nice work

[shahar2k]

that's a turtle's head isnt it?
what's it for, and yah it's kinda generous with the polys

[Fartblossom]

quote

Quote:

Next gen most of the X-box and game cube games at E3 this last year had 5000+ poly characters and the new characters going into games like Unreal and doom are 10,000 polys + so you need to get out of the quake 3 800-1000 poly mentality them days are long over

True but not True. Yeah most games are bragging about how many polys per character they have but You have to think on the flip side of things also. say in the "Quake days" you had a 10,000 poly budget for characters "PER LOAD" which meant you got 10 1000 poly characters. Well, nowadays, say you have 50,000 poly budgets for characters "PER LOAD" You can either have 10 5,000 poly characters 5 10,000 poly characters or 50, yes, 50 1000 poly characters if you stick with the "Quake days" of modeling. And the truth is that if you have an efficient modeler You can get "higher poly" looking characters from 1000 to 1500 polys and that means you get MORE people walking down streets, MORE people to run over, MORE people to shoot at, and MORE people just hanging out so that you feel more immersed in the game. And you still have to keep poly budgets in mind, and consistant between environments and characters, when creating todays games otherwise you'll end up with a cool looking game with nowhere to play. Imagine Making Quake with the same poly limits per object but being able to have worlds really HUGE and hundreds and hundreds of characters running around? That's what i wanna see.

[NextGen]

quasar: you only proved my point with what you said. X-box has like a Geforce3 in it so of course the polycount is gonna be bigger cause they don't have to design the game to accomidate a wide varity of video card flavors. But if this is a model for a Computer game i could see where things might have to change a little. But like Fartblossom said, it's pretty much depends on basically what kinda game it is and how many extra poly's you have to deal with after the model.
I'm workin on models for a MMORPG right now and the poly count has to stay low because of all the players on screen at the same time. and to accomidate for the wide variaty of video cards, not a problem on something like a console where everything is the same. But I wouldn't say the days of 1000 polylimit character games are in the stoneage yet.

SeanW: what program did you make this in and did you skin it in the same program? the texture is just crazy cool.

[SeanW]

Nicodemus- Haha yeah I didnt even see that his head looks like an anvil. Maybe I can make him a little more creaturish by changing his pose. I'll see what I can come up with.
tomgupper- thanks,
shahar2k- its not a turtle head, its a "alien head" its for my game class, we are trying to do somewhat of a serious sam mod.

Ok as far as the poly count issue. Our game is not going to have more then 16 players on screen at one time. We are just a class so we dont have to develop this game for the lowest denomonator. We do want to mimic the game industry and follow rules but we can bend them to our needs. As far as our game goes the polycount of our characters is on par. As far as programs go, I used lightwave to model and max to texture, bone and animate. I also tried out deep paint which worked great for me. I helped me get the general lines for positioning the muscles. After that everything was photoshop.

[SeanW]

Just thought some would like to see the textue for this dude. I would love to see how other people set up their textures for their models. 'hint hint'

[Quasar]

Next gen MMPG don't count really cause most games are not a MMPG . Im sorry to say that you are both wrong in that most game engines can push 50,000-100,000 polys at any given time and so 5000 poly characters are going o be the norm. Ohh and ya there are good models made at 1000 and 1500 polys but they look a hell of a lot better when a good modeler does a 5000 poly model. Ohh and Nextgen you guys are gonna be in trouble when you release and you come to find out that Star Wars online and many other MMPG are using 3000-10,000 poly character models and you look like 3 year old bargin bin games when you release. Not meaning to insult but you really should do a little research on the kinda poly budgets being used these days. Ohh and I also work a MMPG so im not talking out my ass and im not a raving fan boy

[[Shizo]]

everybody and his brother is working on a MMORPG game

[NextGen]

how many 5,000 poly models can fit on a 50,000 poly engine at the same time? 10? how about 100,000 poly's? 20? so if you cut those in half so you can have some landscape to walk on sounds like too many wasted poly's in just models to me..
Anyway its stupid cause there are so many combonations of things that could come into play like Game Type or Frame Rate on different video cards. yeah if some people don't mind the 5fps they get then i guess it might not be a problem then.
But please don't make this a personal thing. I'm just bouncin some idea's off you.

[shahar2k]

then again, games have not changed gameplay THAT much in nearly 4 "generations" , take a look at thief though and look what happens to a game with graphics from the past that are DONE WELL, and gameplay that's just perfect...

[Fartblossom]

Quasar

quote

Quote:

Next gen MMPG don't count really cause most games are not a MMPG . Im sorry to say that you are both wrong in that most game engines can push 50,000-100,000 polys at any given time and so 5000 poly characters are going o be the norm.

Sorry, we're not wrong you are just hard headed. First of all, your comment on MMPG not counting because most games are not MMPG is irrelevant and utter mumbling and i just assume you were high when you babbled that one. We didn't say that hardware today couldn't push 50k-100k polys we're just saying that it DEPENDS on what kind of game you're going for. Sure you're going to see a lot of games coming out with HUGE Poly budgets but it still comes back to issues dealing with MEMORY and Loading. If you want to load every 5 seconds so that you can bring in more of your 10,000 poly characters then go for it but if you want to be reasonable then concentrate on consitentcy between gameplay/characters/environments/specialFX/Animation/Textures etc etc. If you want to show off how many polys your characters can have then you can watch your game BOMB when it hits the store shelves unless it's FUN! Our game is going to the Xbox gamecube and PC and has HUGE levels, busy streets, TRAFFIC, and LOTS of FX and it all has budgets and it all is dependent on the Hardware. SO, if you want to talk about how great games are going to be when you're 50 then go ahead but i'm concentrating on making a GOOD game that's FUN for now. have fun

[Fartblossom]

Oh yeah, about this model, i would love to see the wireframe or edged faces just to see if you've used your polys wisely. I see a lot of straight edges in your model and am wondering if there are wasted faces holding up those straight edges. I think overall it's pretty good but with 2000+ faces i would like to see where you put your polys. thanks.

[shahar2k]

jees farblossom, isnt that kind of a personal question? my polies go where I want them to.

I'll join the call though WIREFRAME PLEASE!!

[Quasar]

quote

Quote:

Sorry, we're not wrong you are just hard headed. First of all, your comment on MMPG not counting because most games are not MMPG is irrelevant and utter mumbling and i just assume you were high when you babbled that one

You really don't pay much attention do you son?? MMPG make up 1% of games in production at any given time there are 500-600 games being made between consol and pc. I am saying that when the X-box can push upwards of a 150,000 polys.frm .. with everything on and still get 60 FPS making blocky models is BS and cheap ohh and we better call up the peeple making Doom and UT2 and tell them that there game is going to BOMB cause some raving fan boy says so . Your talking out you ass now and just making noise so pipe down and let the real devs have a discusion.

Next gen I wasnt trying to make it personal sorry if it sounded like it. Ohh and just for the record you might want to look into this new technology called LODing it helps when you have a bumch of people on the screen at once and it allows you to have high poly high detail characters when there are not so many people/objects on the screen and heck you can even LOD on the fly these days when the frame rate is dropping . I assume you actually thought I meant you always have fully poly characters on the screen all the time. That would be brainless and I don't think any game does that especially MMPG's .

[SeanW]

Well here ya go

[Fartblossom]

Man quasar, you really can't read or comprehend can you? Out of the 500 or more games being worked on how many bomb? a shitload! especially with people like you saying "yeah i wanna make the same damn game over and over but with Higher polys! do some research boy. No shit U2 and Doom aren't going to bomb, they are the ones who create the largest engines that other devs buy to actually make a fun game out of. Look at half life and counterstrike using a tweaked out quake 2 engine. Same with U2 and Doom, sure they're gonna look sweet as shit, sell a million copies and probably be fun as hell too but that's because they are the big dogs and they can create the engines that others can't AND hire the best talent in the industry to Showcase their latest and greatest TECHNOLOGY. But where they make a lot of money is licensing their engines to people who want to spend their time tweaking the engine and work on gameplay and come out with something DIFFERENT, something original, something fun.

quote

Quote:

with everything on and still get 60 FPS making blocky models is BS and cheap

I see your POINT (minus the "BS and cheap" do you see anyone elses? hence the hard headedness. It's not bullshit to spread that 150000 polys over larger areas dude! do you get the picture? Take your 150000 polys optimize your overweight characters and save thousands of polys and now you have thousands of polys to spend on something else! THINK BOY! are you still high? Now Go draw some pretty pictures and hand them over to the people that actually MAKE the games happen, And until you're reasoning out budgets for everything that is happening on screen at the same time for a game on the latest hardware go back and sit in la la land and pretend that you actually know what you're talking about.

quote

Quote:

Ohh and just for the record you might want to look into this new technology called LODing it helps when you have a bumch of people on the screen at once and it allows you to have high poly high detail characters when there are not so many people/objects on the screen and heck you can even LOD on the fly these days when the frame rate is dropping

NEW TECHNOLOGY? You don't even know how it works! Where are you making games at again? Ethiopia? You are way behind dude, go get some back issues from a couple of years ago of game developer and play catchup.

Sean I like your model especially the hands, forearm and head. pretty cool. are you making anymore? post'em if ya got'em.

[Quasar]

Awwww poor fart blossom did I get under your skin man...you sound like a crying little bitch ..pretty funny I got under yoor skin . I must have hit a nerve huh fan boy?? " I am a developer I am a developer " Keep dreaming wanna-be . Ok how's this you name me one x-box or game cube title using characters created in under 1000 polys!! Hell name me a MMPG using poly budgets that low. Talk about hard headedness. I hate when forum trolls like you chime in cause you read a magazine one time and now you think you a fucking expert. It's obvious you have no game dev expereince and your just some lamer who thinks he can model. Im done with you fan boy come talk to me when you finish high school I don't got times for kids .

Ohh and read between the lines kid I was being sarcastic with NextGen about LODing but im sure you knew that cause you seem to think you know everything.

[ November 30, 2001: Message edited by: Quasar ]

[Manik Monkei]

You guys want to take it somewhere else? Doesn't seem like this anything to do with the model anymore.

Anyway. I like the model's head design personally.. it's different. Nice work on the armor too. There's those bandages again

[BooMSticK]

lookin very nice. modelling seems solid, joints seem to be able to twist/bend without much problems. Eecept the feet which lack detail arond the angle. I think you'll get in trouble animating those feet... And those fingers seem very (too?) detailed. You might want to put some of those poly's in the feet instead.

Textures seem abit too flat, airbrushy, monochome and feel generally uninspiring. Try and put alot more colorvariation into your textures. I suggest you opon up some of the Quake3:arena texture files and study them. There's some really great textureing hidden in those files.

,Boom

[SeanW]

Ah yes the hands, the reason they are so high poly is that I failed miserably the model previous. And people laughed at me and I was the laughing stock of my whole school, well maybe not that bad. But you are very right they are way to high for a 3k model.
Ok about the monochromatic feel of my guy, yes you are so right. It used to be even worse then what you see now but I tried to fill the shadows with a cool blue and the lighter areas with a warmer red. I dont think I went far enough. Thanks for the crit.
My other guy is for the same game. I posted in the unfinished but I guess I'll just post it here as well.

[morphgfx]

hey SeanW, i realy like your work! both modelling and textures are well done i think.
what kind of class is this you're talking about and where do you study?

hey quasar, fartblossom, next gen, don't you think that this thread might be the wrong place for your discussion? make a new one in general art discussion. maybe you'll here a lot more oppinions from other people then too?

[NextGen]

lol, yeah think it might have gotten a little too out of hand. heh i say one thing about poly's and people start fighting.

Anyway, SeanW love your second model even more then the first. I say just let the programer's worry about giving you a good poly budget and let them worry about making things work as fast as possible. What kind of class is this your taking? Programming? Game Art? Great Stuff SeanW and sorry for the heated discussion taking over your thread.

[SeanW]

The school I go to is Cogswell College in Sunnyvale, California. Theres a game concentration there which is what all this stuff is being done for. This game class involves pretty much everything in production from the game doc to the concepts to the models to the animations etc, etc. About 15weeks is our time budget to finish some type of deliverable demo. Thanks for the comments everyone.

[Akukage]

I like the models, the 1st one definitly carries a "I can pop your head like a zit" kind of look, & the 2nd one looks pretty good, I would probably make the spines a little lighter in colour, to emphasize thier pointyness (is that even a word? bah, you get hte idea right?)