[Twincruiser]

I've drawn Gully and now I had to try Monika.
http://www.geocities.com/hallsofcreation/monika.html

What you all think?

[NullEQ]

OW! That metal up there has to hurt! Other than that, her right hip looks a little shortened. I think it should be brought down just a bit. But I like it!

[java]

I dont want to be rude or sound like an asshole, but I personally would like to see this in Work in progress, mostly because its a pencil sketch and I dont consider it to be a fully finished digital piece of art until its colored etc.

Hope you dont mind me saying.

Keep up the good work!

[hamilton]

agh. you pansy.

why don't you just tell him you don't like his drawing? why don't you just tell him straight up, "your 'sketchtes' aren't wanted here". just go ahead and tell him that the forearm is too short as is the upper arm and the hand is too big to be feminine. why don't you tell him that the pose is completely unrealistic and she looks very uncomfortable. why don't you tell him that the lower lip juts out too much and that the hair has too much volume and is just distracting.

why don't you just fucking tell him. you people are all too worried about hurting people's feelings. argh. screw his feelings. this piece doesn't belong here and he needs to know it. get some balls.

tell him that that sword would be making ass slices for here if it was real. tell him that if he went by the light source on her body, her entire face would be in shadow because of her hair.

jesus. get a back bone people. and twincruiser? keep your sketches to your self.

[Bloodnite]

Hamilton, go suck some more cock. Leave the harshness up to faustgfx. I doubt anyone cares for your attitude, supposed to be constructive crits.

[hamilton]

go suck your own cock. i gave plenty of constructive criticism. where was yours? huh? you didn't even bother to comment on his picture. what a fucking hypocrite are you. no one wants your flames. leave.

[Motorfish]

hamilton:

Well, I know I sure would be insulted by your comments. What an attitude...

[hamilton]

FORGET ABOUT ME DAMMIT!

why won't you people comment on his goddamn picture? maybe because you agree with me? then shut the hell up. if you think i'm wrong then comment on his picture. if you think i'm right then go the hell away.

[Motorfish]

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Motorfish ]

[Pat]

Motorfish is right. I come from a crit-heavy background so I recognize the value of aggressively challenging art. However, I only reserve those hot crits for people I know will benefit from it. It's bad form to do otherwise. It's pretty clear Twincruiser is new and has a lot to learn and your hostile disposition isn't making that easy. People are fixating on you in this thread because it's obvious your criticsm isn't contructive, it's destructive. It's called common respect... and it seems to be anything but common around here.

-Pat

[Bloodnite]

I would've commented on his picture if I felt I'm qualified or good enough to do so. However, I like how it looks. I also thought your post deserved a crit more than his picture. No one may want my flames at them, but your attitude warrants one... enough said.

[hamilton]

WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?!?

you people STILL won't comment on his picture. everyone who sees it is qualified to judge it. that is why he posted it here. right? if not, then why the hell did he post it? to show off? it's not good enough to be showing off.

i gave PLENTY of constructive criticism. if he is too stupid to take my critique and turn it into advice, then he should stop now. in case he or anyone else needs it spelled out. i will go back, in detail, and explain what i explained the first time.

1. DON'T POST YOUR FUCKING SKETCHES HERE. it has been discussed in length by me and my associates, and we have decided that we could give a rat's ass about your sketches. post inks, paintings, colors, but not sketches. the only exception is to post an ASSLOAD of sketches. and only if they're good. i don't want to see your practice.

2. the forearm and upper arm is too short. this can be fixed by... anyone? LENGTHENING THEM.

3. the pose is unrealistic. she is all contorted with angles moving in ways that would make an actual model very uncomfortable. this can be fixed by PUTTING AWAY COSMO. pick up a copy of anything with ginger rodgers in it and see how she holds her self up. SHE was a lady.

4. the lip juts out too much. bring it in. study for god's sake.

5. hair has too much volume. can anyone say overkill? way too much detail put into such an insignificant part of the picture. put more attention into her lips and eyes.

6. the sword is in a position to make chop suey out of her ass cheeks. move it or cover it. nuff said.

7. the light source is good and even on the body and then non existant on the face. fix this.

now then. my critique of java's attitude towards critique still stands. and my critique of the rest of you guys' lack of critique still stands. i don't expect to have to write the freakin declaration of independence everytime i write a goddamn critique. i outta just be able to tell the person it sucks. tell them what sucks. and then let them figure out how to fix it. if any of you guys can't handle that, go back to your momma's apron strings. you bunch of babies.

[micke]

hamilton: Is this you?

Found it on your website

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: micke ]

[hamilton]

that, micke, is me being frustrated by the tree hugging hippies that infest sijun right now, that are all too afraid to give their actual opinion of things, in fear that they might offend someone. you're always going to offend SOMEONE. whether you gush or whether you flame. too many people just too damn ready to gush and not willing to give harsh criticism when it is called for. and the current state of sijun calls for it. i am not the problem people. i am the solution.

... what the hell? did you hotlink a picture on my site?

... that shouldn't work o.0

hmmm....

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: hamilton ]

[kos.mandis]

Really great sketch! Keep it up...

[Pat]

You're sadly mistaken if you think your arrogant attitude is the solution to Sijun's woes. It is, quite bluntly, the root of our problems.

What part of calling us "pansys" or "babies" do you consider constructive or acceptable? People are responding here because you're acting like an ASS. We're asking you to restrain your arrogance and contribute in a constructive manner. FYI, personal insults are not generally considered constructive. In return, we're labled "tree-hugging hippies" and refered to as an "infestation". Your tough love attitude is real cute, but belies both your ignorance and self-importance. Mature artists know there's a time and a place for a harsh crits, as well as a proper approach. You're showing NO respect to anyone here --and you can't hide that behind your "right to an opinion" or crying foul and asking us to only post "on-topic" crits. Stop deflecting our message: you're acting like a pretentious little shit and you should know better. Grumble all you want, but this isn't some politically-correct, crystal-hugging opinion I dreamed up while eating tofu. It's known as courtesty and *gasp* it's something your parents should have taught you.

-Pat

[klash.jr]

Damn not bad....cool sketch
at first i read the comments of Hamilton.
And thought right always damn must be a really crappy drawing but actually it's an awesome piece. I might not know all the technical art thing but you got something going there kid. Keep practicing and never let your head go lower then your shoulders no matter what anyone said. To tell you the truth i think you draw better then him and a better webpage ...just my opinion.

[Bob the Newt]

hamilton, you are the fucking man, i love you

[Twincruiser]

Well, I'm gonna reply. I am very insulted by your comments, Hamilton. I don't think you should act like a sort of god or like the next messiah or something. You could at least be more friendly. This forum is here to help people understand and develop their artistic skills. It is not used (like your are doing) to react your emotions and personal problems on someelse (which I think is VERY CHILDISH). Maybe you had a bad day or something but that does not justify what you are doing here now. Bring it with a little more patience and peace and it will surely be appreciated.

Oh yeah, If you don't like what I am doing than don't look at it, don't say anything. Just skip the thread that has name twincruiser on it, Problem solved.

I will not let someone like you ruin my passion that is drawing. I will not keep my sketches to myself and I will post many of my sketches and drawings on Sijun (From here on in WORK IN PROGRESS). I love to draw and I know I can't become a super artist in a few days. That's why I draw everyday and practice, practice, practice and I post them on my site and I want to know what you are thinking, but you should never ever do it on an unsophisticated manner that could hurt someone elses feelings (the way you are doing, Hamilton).

[Isric]

Sijun, from the beginning was meant as a place for people to display their artowrk and have it critiqued by others in the field. What I think has happened is that grace has been pushed out of the picture. When we see something we don't like, or that grabs us the wrong way, we have to have the grace to handle it kindly. When we're insulted, we have to put it aside, or deal with it one on one. This will help us all survive. It sounds like a bunch of 'if we just hold hands' crap, but really, if one side stops fighting, there isn't really a fight anymore (just a massacre, heh, but then the attacker is destroyed by the U.N. and everyone goes home happy).
Twin Cruiser, very nice sketches. A bit to similar to Joe Mad's style for my liking, but still, it shows skill. While Hamiltons replies are incredibly harsh, there are some good points to them that I would suggest you follow (Just ignore the cruelty). Some anatomy quirks, but it's mostly the pose.Red Monika is a very strong woman, she is comanding and sexy, so this pose seems a little bit docile (kinda too late to change that, so keep it in mind next time). Hope that helps -Matt

[Jucas]

Hamilton,
There is fine line between being an asshole and saying what is on your mind. There is absolutly no reason why someone can't critque a drawing in a reasonable and down to earth manner. If you freak out I could care less what contructive comments you may have made.

Twin,
I think it is a good drawing. Alot of the elements other people have mentioned need fixing, but it think it is well on its way.

[java]

Hamilton. Ok, I am a pansy and a tree hugging hippie. Fine, you have the right to an opinion. But why be rude and angry just because I am trying to be nice and polite?
I could have given some contructive critisism, I know, but I didnt have the time yesterday nor did I feel like it since I know that there are people (like yourself) on this forum who can give better critisism than myself on these type of sketches.

I agree that you sometimes have to be harsch when it comes to crits, I do that everyday, at work. Personally I dont think Sijun will benefit from your kind of behaviour.

Lets end this now.

[InsaneSpaghetti]

Hamilton is right in some areas. I am not sure if putting too much negative emotion would help it much, but otherwise it's right.
I know that my stuff that I posted here wasn't good - but I had to guess that from the lack of replies etc. And I'd rather have someone blow my piece to smithereens than sit around and watch the thread go down. In other words I'd rather have my stuff hated than unnoticed.

[kohse]

First off a pat on the back for Twincruiser. You are on the right track. Most of the CONSTRUCTIVE crits you have received pretty much sum it up. Some compositional crits: most comic editors will tell you NEVER cut off an image at the joints (elbows, knees (in this case), hips ect...). It makes it look like you can't draw them and it temps you to over compensate for the lack of drawing space when you get to the edge of the paper (here it looks like her left leg will come to a knee a few inches before her right leg will). Also the lower ribbon over her left shoulder looks like an attempt to hide the arm. If you want to draw comics you should show off your ability to draw good anatomy and not hide it. The hard edges on the ribbons make them look too thick to be blowing around like that. Lose the edge defining lines and let the shadows and absolute edge of the ribbon define shape and density. Lastly, that ribbon on her backside looks like it's stabbing her in the ass. Extend it a little more and use it as another plane to add some depth to the piece.

Personal note: I enjoy seeing stuff from peoples sketchbooks. It's nice to see the raw art before the editors get to it and make it safe for human consumption.

[slappy]

deleted

[ August 09, 2001: Message edited by: slappy ]