[Merekat]

This was what directed most of my gray matter and stomach acid production last month. It's in Illustrator 9.0, and I literally learned the program with the first drawing of the puppy. So, I've only known it for a few weeks now. Had a deadline of two days originally, but with all they requested, and all their mind-boggling busywork changes, I ended up working on this for ...8 days? I would have done more to it, but time and memory ran out. Mostly time. Like, I would have put scenes behind the windows, or reflections on the window, ivy running up the side of the house, some victorian moulding... y'know...stuff.

The main graphic of a tradeshow booth for pet supply manufacturers, this illo had to be big and colorful. It was printed out at 65" by 92" high. It was a HUGE freakin' file and severely taxed my poor G4 at work. I think the original vector was at quarter scale: 17 x 23? either way, the file saved was 9.2 megs. And I had to allocated about 85megs of ram to Illustrator alone. Poor G4...

You like? ;}



For closeups:
mouse
cat
guinea pig
ferret
bird
puppy
bunny

[Ko]

Fabulous!

I know how tedious it can be to work with A LOT of filled shapes in Illustrator....
Takes a lot of patience (and cursing),
I actually think it takes the fun out of Illustrating. But for commercial artwork at the size you're talking about, it yeilds great results...

Bravo again! I really dig the fluffy animals

Ko

[ June 07, 2001: Message edited by: Ko ]

[Francis]

Wow this is ALL vector art? Impressive - it would still be impressive if it were just regular raster, but with that added technical requirement...

Boy I hear what you're saying about clients who want it "fast, good and cheap," and "oh yeah, can you change everything? But I still want it tomorrow for the same price." Kill kill.

Nice work though. Hopefully your Mac survived.

[Kendall Lamar]

I am completely dumbfounded. This is ALL in Illustrator 9? Amazing work, especially on that deadline.

I've worked with AI for years, but this is.... wow. Ever since Adobe started adding all the new tools and layering/opacity options, I've been less and less "connected" to Illustrator rely on the program mainly for logos, etc. I would never had attempted what you so skillfully pulled off.

With so many vectors, is there any problem with the RIP? (I've had vectored images crash RIPs before... but then again that was 5 years ago, so I'm sure things have gotten better.)

Did you Streamline scanned drawings for this? Or did you import sketches to use as templates?

I'm guessing that your shading was done with the new "gradient mesh tool"? Nice.

[Frost]

Oooh! Corncob Litter!! Yummeeey!! Silliness aside, it looks great Merekat. You shouldn't be ashamed of this or hate it. It pays and it's drawing... you're always free to do your own stuff and face your own artistic challenges at home.

[roundeye]

are you serious? you can do drop shadows like that in 9? thats amazing! oh and i love the expressions. especially the cat!

[Merekat]

;} thank you for your kind responses so far! ;} I'm so happy this forum can actually understand the depth of trying to do something technical like this. And that vectors are different animals entirely...

Kendall: As far as I know, it ripped fine. Our printing house had little troubles with it based on colors or whatnot. And I really liked giving them a file that was scaleable to 65 x 92 on a zip that only needed 9 megs of space. ;}

As for the drawings, I worked from photo reference. Just some crappy jpegs in the background to look at. ;}

Oh, and no, I didn't know about the new mesh tool, so all that is the old fashioned radial and linear gradients there. ;}

Go see my other thread (portrait) for my work with mesh. I would post it in that portrait thread, but everyone there is using tablets far better than I can right now, and I thought it really unusual to show some vector work. ;}

Frost: nononon. I'm not ashamed of it at all. I had a lot of fun with the animals, I just hated putting signs and logos into my nice first-time illustrator drawing. ;}

That, and... I'm REALLY tired of fertilizers, pet litters and ear wax illustrations, ya know? THAT's where the sigh comes from. ;}

Thanks again, everyone! Keep the comments coming! This is fun! ;} Makes my litter projects at work go down easier... lol...

[patrick]

Damn, Kat, thats all line drawing????? You da Man!!!! (figuratively speaking of course).
That would ahve taken me months on my crappy little program. I use Micrografx 6 Draw for windows. I just loaded designer 7, but got instantly lost with all the stupid bazillion icons in the toolbox.
My only nit, the ferrets nose needs to be a tad sharper(pointy). I have 2 ferrets otherwise I wouldnt know the difference..

[dr . bang]

I didn't know vector could possibly do that!

[dead]

It's very well done. The posture of the bird is a little confusing to me, but I don't care.

What I really feel here is sadness. Maybe I'm spoiled but when I look at this I imagine you, Merekat, a gifted artist and cool guy who has high standards of quality for the work you do. You probably feel you have something to contribute to the world through your skills. Then I think about the 8 days you spent on this. And for what? Don't take offence. Frost may do that for you. I'm just symPATHETIC, that's all.

[Vgta]

HOLY FLYING COWS OF THE SACRED POOLS!!!
Amazing, I still can't believe that all the art work is vector based.

Love the coloring. Didn't know you could do that in illustrator.
How was the learning curve?
Great stuff man, truly amazing

[Merekat]

;}

(greenpeach: psssstt! I'm a girl! go see my other thread. ;} heheh)

patrick: thanks. ;} I'm sure the ferret will appreciate the new nose. ;}

[dead]

Shit. excuse me.

[David Richer]

Maybe I'm the only one here who think this way but I am not all that impressed by the picture as everyone is. Sure it must have been overtedious (don't know if that's a word) to do that kind of overpolished work in illustrator but it could have been made in photoshop and not take you 8 days. I personnaly think that illustrator should be used for more stylized drawing like cell-art or logos but not photo realistic.
I'm judging this by graphic design standard and not by artistic work. the image is so overcrowded that I do not know where to look.
I had to force myself to read the little signs that the animals are holding and that isn't good. I had to stop and think a bit to comprehend what the publicity was about and that is not good. There's too much information in the image for it to be a good publicity. I study in graphic design, it's the final product that matters and not the artistic journey that was needed to do the image. Costumers aren't going to be as nearly impressed by this image as were the other people in the forum because the majority don't know what illustrator is or simply do not care.
Since i've started to study in graphic design I have come to realize that over 80% of publicity is bad. And I'm sorry but I would say that your image falls in the 80%.

I already that i'm going to be attacked by others here who do not think i am right and i frankly do not care. I respect your opinions and you should respect mine. I simply have another point of view than most.

[n8]

i agree with richer...from a design poin of view, overcrowded...BUT!!!
from an artistic view, very nicely done

[Merekat]

Doesn't bother me that you disagree with my work. I'm all for hearing all opinions, good or bad.

But did you read WHY I did it in Illustrator? did you read the specs I had on this pic?

First off, yes, I could do it and I could do it MUCH better in Photoshop. The problem was memory and file size. This project was to be blown up to trade show booth size at 65" x 92". If you had a BLANK photoshop file at 65 x 92 at 300 resolution, that little file is 1.5GB. Now you tell me what G4 in a small company can handle that. And yes, I had the ability to do this full size but only at 150 (minimum resolution from my printing house for these large outputs), and that alone would be in the hundreds of megs BLANK. So, Photoshop was out of the question. BUT they wanted realistic illustrations on this teeny tiny budget.

Illustrator is completely scaleable, and it will look just as good blown up to the size of a blimp as it will at the size it was created.

HOWEVER. This little option does not apply to everything in the program. Those gradient dropshadows, for example, and the blurring of the roof. I told them to blur at 2.7 when the file is 17 x 23. And when the file is 65 x 92, that little blur will STILL be 2.7, because that's what I told it to be. Well then, I made it blurrier in areas to compensate for the enlargement. And there is still no way I could have shown you a scaled version which would represent the blurs as I coded them. My computer wouldn't handle it. So, without going into every blur just for view's sake and changing them, you'll have to deal.

As for layout, that was what my art director wanted, and what the client wanted. If they wanted to pay for what this project was really needing, then it would have more time in the layout. I had to make it look as good as I could using a new program I was teaching myself for the first time in the process in the time allowed. Not to mention this project was actually finished and completed in 3 days. There were 5 days of changes from the client.

Now, I want everyone to know I am not trying to make excuses for my work. I know where it sucks. And I know where I need improvement.

But for what I had to work with, I think I did rather well. That's all.

;} Besides... where is it written 'thou shalt not attempt realistic illustration in Illustrator?'

dammit, I hate rules, and I am going to do my best to learn to do the impossible in a program designed for only the probable!

;P so there.

edit: ps. one thing: if you have ten signs and seven critters to draw on a house showing the siding and the roof in absolute equal importance...

how the heck do you avoid the 'I don't know where to look first?'

looking first somewhere denotes preference in size, layout, color or anything. well, that would piss off the clients who were supposed to be equally represented on this booth. so honestly, TELL ME, I would LOVE to know. given this, how do you show everything equal but with hierarchy?

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Merekat ]

[Merekat]

Pps.

Yes, realism CAN be done in illustrator. and it shouldn't be avoided because it's a vector program. ;P

See this thread:
http://www.sijun.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=003295

[David Richer]

Quick reply

Yes i did read your specs and I understand why you did it in illustrator, I would have done the same but i wouldn't have done overpolished animals realisticly done in a '50s american dream by Norman Rockwell way.
You also said that they wanted realistic animals. Still you can stylise them by using limited colors for the whole image (less than 10), thus creating a whole and reducing the copy paste effect that your image gives the impression. That's the major problem of the image. It looks like a bunch of little elements bunched up together and not as a single image that stands up as itself.
In graphic design we are in a post modern era, meaning we take what was good from the past and make something new with it. What you have done is only take a '50s style and stayed there.
I know how dealing with a client can be. But they are still ways to go around his first idea. He wanted 7 animals with 10 signs on a house with the roof showing? while still being realistic. Well then, take a russian constructivism way to do it for example. The russians were forced to do formal art by the governement, but still they found a way around it by using various pictures and putting them together completly ignoring the perspective. This way, they faked something realistic with the pictures while still making avant-garde work by putting various shapes(if we ignore what the pictures mean) in relation with others.
Just forgetting the laws of formal drawing gives way to intersting design.

About doing realistic work in illustrator, I know it can be done and that's not the point. Personaly I do not like realistic paintings, I find them boring to look at and too previsible. If i want realistic, i'm gonna look at photographs.
With illustrator, you have in hands a powerful program to do stylised works, you should use it. Who's talking about rules here?

I didn't say unreadable signs, I said that the way the image is built, I simply do not WANT to read the signs, even if they were bigger that doesn't change the layout.

The way you can avoid the "i don't know where to look" is by having a structure like a grid that helps you align different elements with others. You could also make an invisible line created by the alignement of the many elements that keeps the "looker" in the image. We always look somewhere first it just doesn't seem so because it's done so fast. By western standard we see things like we read. Left to right and up to down. In eastern standard, particuly in asian society we do right-left and up-down. So by western standard we see the parrot first and follow his eyes to the furet and by following the direction of the furret (which is done subconsiously) we are out of the picture and walking to the next booth.
I can represent everything equal and with heriarchy by making the image with a structure behind it.
The basic of graphic design is structure, something most of us seem to forget...

[David Richer]

Thanks for understanding my point of view.
And remember, i am not attacking you in anyway and I am certainly not attacking your talent.

[Dthind]

Merekat,

This is great !!

I do mostly print work (not the actual illustration, more the print prep). This is a great poster / print item.

Do you license your work for others, or has this been bought on an exclusive right from the people you made it for.

[Steven Stahlberg]

I think the clients here most likely got EXACTLY what they wanted, and MUCH more than what they paid for, sadly almost always the case in projects like this. Over a decade of 100 hour weeks doing crap and taking crap for and from similar clients is the reason I left the ad industry and never never never never want to return.

I wouldn't dare critisize the design in an image like this, knowing how many times Merekat must have smiled and said "ok" when instead she probably wanted to say something like "Listen, am I the graphical expert here or are you?"
Confused look. "You are."
"Then why do you pay me for my expertize if you won't let me use it?"
And perhaps a few other well chosen words...

How long have you been doing this Merekat? Would this be a typical project for you? Do you like it?

Steven

[zero21]

I just started a GD course last night (very simple intro job to see what parts of it I want to explore)

I am however qualified to inform you that, . . . . . . . . . I like the parrot and I think he rocks!!!!!!

he he he
Really I like it all. Thank you for sharing!

[dr.]

--

[ReSistanZ]

I love the animals, great job! But I don't like the background, it doesn't have enough detail compared to the animals, I think.

[leakey]

I've got to say, David Richer, that you seem to understand the fundamentals behind good design but it sounds alot like you have had little experience designing professionally.

Merekat, I think you have done a great job, and while David has some valid points regarding where the eye should go etc etc - to learn the software and pump out what you have done is just fantastic.

I've been working as a designer for a few years now, and I can confidently say that in a client's position, I would be very happy.

Maybe it needs to be more clearly communicated to the client in future by your team that you guys should handle layout and subject matter?

Anyway, well done. David Richer? You seem very idealistic and that's a good thing. Often though, deadlines, budgets and other factors often define how projects are released commercially.

You have much to learn young padewan, but a Jedi you will be.

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: leakey ]

[Merekat]

wow. look at all the new responses!

David: yes, I know that. It's just been a looooonngg time since I've gotten that genre of a critique. And as much as my first reaction may be to bristle (much like my professors would do to me), you are absolutely right, and I will do my best to remember more diligently on even my personal works. I do take those philosophies into consideration there, but it's always good to double check. You will crit my next piece, right? ;}

Dthind: This particular piece would already be licensed to the client and my company, so no, I couldn't do anything with it. But I am always on the lookout for nice commissions, so if that was what you were asking, email me. ;}

Steven: going on six years now. three of those as an internship on equally huge projects for $7/hr at the time... I just want to do fantasy and scifi... is that too much to ask? Why won't people hire me for that?? bleh. ;} thank you for understanding. I honestly believe you've had dozens of clients just like this situation.

zero: thank you! good luck in your classes!

hamster: of course it's lame! you try to get kitty litter and pet products on signs in a serene and sickenly cute atmosphere to look phenominal! ;} hahahahah... damn, have I been doing this far, far too long...

resistanz: I SO ran out of time with the background. (and I did mention in the top post I would have added a lot more) besides, we were already over budget with the pic as it was; though they were paying for most of it due to their incessant changes, it really was down to the wire for getting it to the printer on time.

(Get this: then, after the printer breaks their backs on this output and asks the client if they could ship in the morning, the client says to them, 'oh... sorry, the convention is next week...ship it in another five days...' *rolls eyes*)

leakey: thank you. ;} oh, that's the beauty of it. we were handling layout and subject matter. but you don't understand, they would not have ANY new ideas without a severe fight. it's just the way the 'old school' management works...

everyone: thank you for the comments! where were you on my jhenna photoshop piece?? ;} lol! j/k, honestly THANK you. it was all useful advice. ;} I do appreciate it.

[Merekat]

;} guess this is what happens when I graduate three years ago, I forget all my old GD assignments. heh.

Yes, you are quite right, I could have at least set up the signs to point better. Yes yes. Quite right... comPLETEly forgot about that 'eye movement' thing. ;}

Colors? well, though it may not show it, those are all seperate color schemes for the pic. Due to the size and memory requirements, I had to do them seperately and import the animals into the background. Perhaps I could have varied them more, but actually, all those colors are different. ;} I didn't copy my swatches at all. Oh well...

As for your russian suggestion, I do know very well what you mean. But that would have in NO way, shape or form flown with the client. The main people I have to deal with do not like anything new. They do not like 'stylized' artwork, and they do not like 'vanguard' ideas. *sigh* If I had created something cutting edge as you had suggested, they would have sent it right back to me with so many changes, it would kill any life to it whatsoever. They would not have understood that little perspective change you mentioned, for example. They would have said 'that house is crooked. Fix it.' or 'why is just one sign coming out to us 3d? we can't do that! make them all flat so we can read them. it distorts the logos...'

But yes, you are right. This is not an ideal example of design. They said for us to use all the old graphics they've had the last 6 years. ...it was only because of the pixel problems that we could convince them out of photoshop. *sigh*

But, enough whining. That's why I'm hoping to find a bit of a different industry. Kitty litter and ear wax advertisements just do not do it for me anymore. ;} I'm much happier with scifi and fantasy art...and THOSE, rest assured, do get considerable time with layout. But I suppose it's wherever the heart is, hunh?

Thanks for your crit. I'll try to remember it the next time they make me illustrate a trade show booth. ;}

ps. just to hope my skills aren't completely shot, have you seen my photoshop work? the stuff I do for personal fun?

[ June 11, 2001: Message edited by: Merekat ]

[Vividetail]

nice pic.

i can totally relate to steven there.

[u2art]

damn dude (dudette..sorry... ijust said dudette...lame)...nice. It takes some serious patience to do somethign like that in Illustrator. I applaud you for your dedication! Nice...really damn nice. I really like how vector stuff looks like cutout paper 3d illustration, you did that really well. As for the other details they woulda been cool. But hey, its a job. Makes me want to test myself in Illustrator again definitely inspiring...I have not the patience now though.

Leaky- right on.


Take Care
Art
arts art

[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: u2art ]

[toast!]

didn t have the patience to read all the replies ;

i want to say i understand completly your feeling towards your clients , sometimes they have terrible tastes and you have to deal with them; plus they don't understand the work implied in each work

I guess illustration in the communication area is a great matter of tastes and we have to admit our world is covered by a big layer of people lacking of esthetism sensibility (not only in art but also in music etc..); the bad thing is that sometimes these people are directors of communication or so ..

that s really sad but that s also a great motivation to express yourself at home with no limits.
it is a great satisfaction to be able to say : "huh you don't like it ?; i don t care, that s mine, i ve done it and i m really happy how it is and nothing in the world can obliged me to change it "

being confronted to frustation and dumb people at work is my best motivation to express myself at home , and splash my anger in personal art ; maybe someday i ll be bored of that but for now it s ok.

Toasty (hehe hope someone is not reading behind my screen, i m at work right now )