[Awetopsy]

Are we neglecting our kids so badly that they feel they need to turn to drugs?!?

It seriously bums me out when I see some 16 year old kid with a joint in his hand, or a group of 13 year olds in a hudle smoking up.

Im a youth leader and I seriously find it disturbing that young people, in what are supposed to be the best countries in the world to live in, are getting addicted to drugs, becoming prostitutes (male and female), are shooting each other...

where are the parents? some of them have parents who've kicked them out, some have parents that are so busy all the time that they barely notice their kids. Others have parents that practically gave them the joint itself. Its shameful!! Completely and totally shameful!!

Am I the only one who finds this disturbing????

[Vgta]

Well an apple doesn't fall far from its tree. You can certainly start blaming the parents for once, then their inner stupidity and lack of gray matter. Which brings me to a similar topic, why is it (and I am sure many of you have seen this) that some "artists" see the need to use drugs to further their creative talents? Are their minds so locked up and repressed that they need something to free it?

[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: Vgta ]

[Dthind]

Agree.

Disturbing.

Parents are getting divorced; the family unit is becoming more splintered. Drugs are easy and require no work. People are slipping to their lowest common denominator (LCD). Work ethic in too many people has become a 'You Owe Me' mentality. Drugs are a symptom of laziness, depression and desperation.

Blame the media, the movies, marilyn manson, whomever you want, the truth is people are still responsible for their own actions.

[Chris]

i have never smoked, drank, or taken drugs..why? cause my dad would have kicked my ass...that fear alone stopped me, oh and because it makes you stupid...=)

[Akolyte]

We need to revert to barbarism again.

[Dryfire]

hehehe, everyday while walking to the train :-( I see about 10-15 5th graders smoking in the park.... Not good, plus these little kids are getting into fights with the local high school kids. Its mostly their family though that makes them do this, if they ever get into a big fight... their 'big brother' and his friends appear from nowhere. Their big brother is usually in 6th or 7th grade :-D

Jock, nice opinion. Hmmm these things just go to show you how muc hthe government scares ppl j/k

Drugs are illegal.

[Darklighter]

"Drugs are illegal."

so what does that mean? that a bunch of old guys in the government decided that you can't do them.... i agree that almost everything but weed should be illegal anyway, but if weed is illegal, then why not alcohol? weed calms you down, while alcohol makes you hyperactive and more apt to lash out at poeple and do something destructive...

anyway, i agree with Jock mostly, cept i didn't start smoking weed til i was 18.... if you're younger any drug'll mess you up faster and worse in the long run, and that's not cool imo, but then kids are gonna do the shit anyway....

so why do they do it? let's analyze our "perfect world".... of course parents are the main factor, so if they tell their kids "what do you want? can't you see i'm doing business on the phone. go watch tv or play on the computer", not speaking of mental and physical abuse because parents hate their own lives and have these little ppl at home they can take it out on....

kids are looking to the future and see nothing worthwhile, a slowly dying world, hate, greed, no true love, no meaningful jobs.... all those factor together to depression and drugs....

of course, for some kids it might just be peer-pressure, exploration, or any other of those resons.

i was raised in a pretty cool environment, but looking at the world and society and wtf is going on has killed the person i used to be as a kid.... it's good that i have found the calling of art to keep me occupied (thx to Loki, my main negro)....

[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: Darklighter ]

[Impaler]

Government? What does the government have to do with weed being illegal? The government was making money off of weed until about 1970, when tobacco was losing too much money for it to remain a cash crop.

To understand why kids do drugs, you need to classify the drugs so you can attach certain demographics to the categories.

Weed, tobacco and alcohol, for example, are gateway drugs. They're not particularly harmful, but they're easy to get hooked on, especially since you're not afraid of dying from an O.D. However, the addiction continues as your resistance to the drug builds, and so you have to do more and more.

I could go on forever on toxins and whatnot, but I'm too lazy, so basically i'll leave it at "All people start with gateway drugs, started by peers, and, depending on the person, then move onto other drugs." "Why do we do gateway drugs if we know they're bad?" "Because they're not that bad, and whatever doesn't kill me, makes me stronger."

[Lunatique]

Hm, if the government made sewing and needle-point stitching stuff illegal, maybe the kids would think that's "so cool" and starts to form underground sewing clubs?

"Check out this sweater I made! Took me 2 months! I had to smuggle this past my parents..."

"Dude! That's so cool! Can you score me some pink fabric and neon green yarn?"

[Impaler]

Actually, I think that would happen. Adolescents are always looking for reasons to rebel, and the 'government' is the perfect scapegoat/pummelhorse to do so.

Teens have always tried to disobey the "oppressive government" simply because it's cool and makes them feel important and, ironically, individual. It's like, a piece of suburban badassness. Look at Napster. Nobody but nerds and audiophiles knew what Napster was, until about a year ago. Then the government started to realize what Napster actually was doing, and started to prosecute. Napster's user rate more than quadrupled at that time. The same thing with weed. Up until 1970, nobody but hippies and Native Americans (I'm not being racist) smoked marijuana, because until then, the government didn't care one way or another. Suddenly, the government decides that weed is evil, and in doing so, popularizes it and makes it acceptable for the teen crowd to use.

I guess it's the juvenile delinquent's way of sticking it to The Man. *sticks fist in the air*

[sacrelicious]

Wow, Impaler, you couldn't be more wrong. The "Marihuana Tax Act" of 1937 marked the official government prohibition not only of the use, sale, possession, and cultivation of psychoactive cannabis, but also the farming of hemp for industrial uses (a historically valid and lucrative practice). Marijuana first earned recognition as an intoxicant in the 1920s and 1930s. Recreational use of the drug became associated primarily with Mexican-American immigrant workers and the African-American jazz musician community. It was during this time that hemp was renamed "marihuana" and the plant's long-standing history as a cash crop was replaced with a new image: "The Devil's Weed." The fear of immigrants and blacks committing violent crimes while supposedly under the influence of "reefer-smoking" is what led to its eventual prohibition. The evidence used to support the Marihuana Tax Act was circumstantial and exaggerated to ludicrous proportions the effects of marijuana use. This evidence went against the findings of the American Medical Association, whose representative tested before Congress that there was no evidence that marijuana was dangerous in the fashion mentioned and that prohibiting the drug would severely inhibit a physician's ability to utilize its therapeutic properties. But the bill met no resistance, sailed through the House and the Senate, and was passed into law by FDR on August 2nd, 1937.

[Impaler]

Wow, sacrelicious, you couldn't miscontrue what I said any farther than you just did.

Marijuana was legal to grow, possess and smoke until 1970, when tobacco lobbyists (and possibly oil lobbyists, seeing as fuel is relatively easy to obtain from hemp; like you said yourself, hemp is a very lucrative plant) complained to congress about how the Marijuana tax act was unfairly treating them. Congress also made marijuana illegal in an attempt to stop the 'disestablishmentarians in the 60's', as a demonstration of their disapproval and their power.

I believe you have a few facts messed up. The Marijuana Tax Act was basically the equivalent of the British' Stamp Tax of the 1700's. Basically, weed that was sold commercially (and it was sold commercially) had to have a ring with a little seal on it that the dealers and growers had to buy for each and every 8 ounces or whatever it was. It's the same stamp thing that's around the neck of American liquor bottles, and the same stamp on a pack of cigarettes. The fine for weed imported was especially high (and most was imported from Mexico, seeing as there was no tax for growing it there, and it was more popular than tobacco in some regions) and since weed was therefore more expensive than tobacco, it was rarely smoked until around the 1960's, where radicals (who got their information from Jazz musicians, as you said) made it popular.

The government (not all parts, of course. i'm just too lazy to list all the involved constituents) made money off of marijuana, and they intended to keep it that way until there were too many squeaky wheels.

The government also makes lots of money off of tobacco, ($1.75 per pack, i believe) yet they label it as bad and dangerous at the same time. But until we complain about it enough, or a bunch of Commie Pinkos endorse Marlboro's as their weapon of community, it'll remain legal.

[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: Impaler ]

[Jock McxSporran]

See now all that stuff is interesting to a degree (and I admire your ability to quote it), but I have a far simpler attitude to all this:

Weed gets me stoned.
I like being stoned.
The rest is no-one else's buisness.

[Impaler]

I believe Jock's mentality captures exactly the Zeitgeist of what Awetopsy was worrying about. It explains everything that I was trying to say far better than I ever could.

Oh, the irony.

[Awetopsy]

Alot of people like to be stoned.... but that still doesnt mean that its not illegal. Nobody is above the law.

Im not gonna tell you how to live your life but it is people who do it that promote it. People who do it are the role models for those 13 - 16 year olds who are doing it.

"If such-and-such older person can do it, so can I"

Young people are responsible for their own actions to an extent... but ultimately their parents answer for them until they are of legal age.

I personally believe that intoxicants of any sort should absolutely prohibited from youngsters and enforced. How? Im not exactly sure.. thats the kind of question our justice systems are supposed to deal with.

Do I require everybody to agree with me? No. not at all. But that doesnt mean I cant still find those things that are destructive (even in the milder degree) disgraceful.

[edible snowman]

this guy has some interesting opinions on the matter
http://www.harrybrowne.org/

[Darklighter]

no shit.... britney spears & co and mtv promotes to girls everywhere that you have to be beautiful barbie dolls to "fit in" and you're telling me that drugs are the evil force that's ruining our kids? i still say anyone under 18 shouldn't do it (weed), but can everyone take their minds off the "big, bad drug problem" and look at what the reasons for people using them are.... retards trying to outlaw drugs and have a whole war going on against it instead of focusing on the real problem.... wasn't that the original question? why kids do them?

[ June 08, 2001: Message edited by: Darklighter ]

[edible snowman]

i dont know if thats what you're implying, but im real sick of hearing people tell me that my whole age group does what we do because tv says so. you can blame scapegoats, but that doesnt fix anything.

[Darklighter]

i was using mtv as a symbol for society.... i stopped watching tv when i was 16 and i wouldn't imply that tv is responsible for anything....
anyway, there's too many factors for the drug "problem" (?), i was just stating one of them.... it's not just the government, tv, peer pressure, society, etc. diferent people do different shit for different reasons.... we're not all "artists" just because we all want to look cool in front of people cuz we can draw good shit, we have different reasons for doing it.... faustgfx's reason is the $ =P

[Dthind]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jock McxSporran:
See now all that stuff is interesting to a degree (and I admire your ability to quote it), but I have a far simpler attitude to all this:

Weed gets me stoned.
I like being stoned.
The rest is no-one else's buisness.

---

I am cool with this AS LONG AS YOU NEVER drive a bus with my kids, Fly a plane with me on it or operate anything that can cause harm to anyone but you.

[sacrelicious]

Heh, Impaler, I just jumped at the chance to out-Impaler you (you always seem to have most or all of the facts in a given situation). Some of your statements just didn't ring true to me- "nobody but hippies and Native Americans smoked marijuana," "the government didn't care one way or another," etc. I'm also pretty sure it wasn't legal to smoke, possess, or grow weed until 1970- just ask my parents. Regardless, I'm interested by this topic and am going to do more research.

[J Bradford]

Is this a place to post your "intellectual opinion"? I find it funny that most of these posts have tried to take a simple subject and make it so complicated and diverse.

[Darklighter]

simple subject my ass.... unless you can give a simple reason why kids do drugs

[Jock McxSporran]

That depends on on your views on personal freedom.

I've been smoking weed regularly for nearly 10 years, and I've taken all manner of other crap as well along the way. I've never robbed anyone, I've never been arrested, I've never been sacked, and I live a reasonably happy and trouble free life. What gives anyone the right to tell me what I can or can't do to my own body? If I want to inject myself with weedkiller that's no-one else's buisness but my own.

I'll admit I too wince at seeing kids of 13 standing on street corners getting high ('cos I've been that kid), but if it wasn't drugs they were buying it would be drink (avaliable at all good corner shops), and I know I'd rather see my (hypothetical) kids with a joint in their hands than a beer.

[klaivu]

A woman on the street gave me this flier, that said that evolution theory is to blame.

[Jock McxSporran]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dthind:
I am cool with this AS LONG AS YOU NEVER drive a bus with my kids, Fly a plane with me on it or operate anything that can cause harm to anyone but you.

---

With all respect that's nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction by someone who has been conditioned into believing that the equation "DRUGS=BAD" is an absolute.

I can still smoke weed and be a responsible human being. It doesn't make me lazy, inconsiderate or stupid any more than drinking alcohol does, yet no-one would have those concerns if I announced that I enjoy the occassional drink. I wouldn't dream of getting in my car while stoned, any more than I would dream of getting in my car while drunk, because I am a responsible adult and I know that it would be dangerous. 99% of drugs related problems are caused by the illegality, rather than the existence, of drugs.

It's an entire social attitude that needs to be changed. We live in a culture where everybody thinks they know what's best for everyone else. There has even been talk here in Scotland of taxing fatty foods in an attempt to lower Scotland's appauling heart disease record. What gives anyone else the right to say they know what's best for me?
If I want to get fat and ill that's my fucking buisness. It's a point of principle.

I know I can't change anything though. If "my" government wish to criminalise me for something I do in my own home then fine, shit happens, that's just the way life is. I'll take responsibilty for my actions and accept the punishment without complaint.

Then I'll go home and light up another fat one.

[Socar MYLES]

Well, here's a rather un-intellectual opinion...maybe not even an opinion so much as a...cautionary tale. (That was the name of a horror story I once read. 'A Cautionary Tale'. Pretty nasty story, if I recall correctly...but that's neither here nor there, is it?)

I was a child of the '80s, really--born in '75, finished high school in '91. I went to high school in Cambridge, and the school I went to was -not- one of Britain's finest. People were leaving fifth year unable to read and write. The good thing about going to a school of that sort was that it was easy to get good grades, and nobody really noticed if you didn't always turn up for class.

When we weren't turning up for class, my friends and I were usually hanging about behind the cafeteria doing various things which we weren't supposed to be doing. We had a Satanic ritual one time, and another time, we painted a hapless tree from top to bottom with toothpaste. Oh, yeah--and there were some drugs, too.

Thing was, we didn't really know much about the weird substances that were going around. LSD, pot, coke, amphetamines, heroin--all we knew was what we'd heard from older kids--none of which included addiction, running sores, track marks, collapsed veins, or eventual death. And, of course, there were our parents, who said 'Drugs are bad!', but parents also say that cutting class is bad, and nobody ever died from skyving.

Anyway, despite all the puking and skin-crawling and what not that went on thanks to the drugs, none of it seemed all that heinous compared to the 'real world'. I never did any drugs, but I'd have taken heroin over, say, my friend Kate's vicious father, any old day.

I don't know how it is for kids today, or for kids in America, or any kids other than the friends I remember, but whenever I think about those days, and all the bad things we did, drug-related and otherwise, the lame-ass excuse that always comes to mind is--'We just didn't know.'

Hm. It's funny. I'm the only one left alive from the 'old crowd'. But at the time, an outcome like this would have seemed ridiculous. Fifteen years ago, we really did, in a sense, consider ourselves immortal.

Anyway, these days I'm more likely to be dazed on prescription drugs and over-the-counter palliatives than anything illegal. I don't even smoke cigarettes. Hell, I haven't even had a drink in ages. No, now I just sit around and talk about living in forums, and...hehehe.... Listen to me! I'm getting OLD. Everyone make fun of the ancient and boring Socar. Yeeeah.

[J Bradford]

Pot is not a gateway drug. Many people who started started in their teens smoking this have never tried anything else.

A huge range of people smoke pot, from highschool dropouts to harvard graduates. As long as your smart enough to control it, your fine.

[Impaler]

Sacrelicious: I think what they did with weed was sort of a stiff tobacco paradigm, where kids under 18 weren't allowed to smoke it, lest they get arrested. I am incredibly certain that it wasn't illegal for adults, though. There were a lot more people smoking it other than hippies and native Americans, but those two demos were the only thing the government really cared about (the native Americans were free from the Stamp Tax and hippies were 'dangerous commies'). It wasn't that the government didn't care; as long as they were getting money, however, they weren't in a huge rush to stop it.

Weed is such a huge and diverse issue that you don't know who to really trust with research. I don't even trust myself, other than the stamp tax and hippie theory and the whole 1970-illegal thing.

Bradford: I agree with your last post one issue; many people who started pot in their teens have never tried anything else. My good ol' friend has been smoking pot since he was 15. He's now 50. He does it habitually every day, but he never smokes more than 3 joints. By limiting himself, he's also avoided some of the severe side effects. He's never tried anything else in his life. He's also a brilliant fellow, sort of my intellectual hero.

Harvard graduates tend to smoke cocaine.. :p

It's also not a matter of how smart you are. I have a group of about 6 friends or so, all of which smoke pot. They're all also second degree gifted individuals, with IQ's of at least 145. They're also growing hideously unintelligible and generally stupid. They do other psychotrophs from time to time, but mostly weed. Pot is hazing their brains over. I've seen it first hand, and it's because they're smoking more and more of it.

It's more of a matter of self-control.

[Awetopsy]

you never want to see a 13 year old addicted to heroin. But they exist. You never want to see an alcoholic 15 year old. But they exist.

these are the product of the parents. I was brought up in a home where my parent at least tried to protect me from Dugs and alcohol. Yeah I was rebellious but I still had a healthy respect for the authority my mom had over me.

No matter what any psycho-analysts say, no matter what any statistic about teenagers say, a child can still be brought up respecting the authority over them.