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Thrush · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 6:17 pm

Here's my latest effort. It is for Mystic Eye Games D20 adventure "The Pit of Loch-Durnan". I'm mostly happy with it but have certain things I would do differently were I to start over. Please be brutal I want to get better. Known issues: the arm on the far side of the leaping orc is torn from it's socket, the rope needs detail work, the magical lightning effect is not casting enough light onto objects in the scene. There are more issues but those are the main ones.

Image updated to fix some of the depth issues and the broken shoulder on the leaping orc.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

[This message has been edited by Thrush (edited April 08, 2001).]

InDepth · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 6:30 pm

I'm no professional art critic but I think it looks sweet!

Eric

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Eric Rainey - Owner
In Depth Arts
http://www.critical-depth.com

Dryfire · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 6:44 pm

i think it looks really nice n' detialed too. hmm i can't tell where the shadow on the mountain is coming from though becasue its casted on the mountain, as well as on the post and other things.. i think the main problem would be depth.. everything kind looks like it on the same plane.. as of fixing that.. i have no idea, maybe makeing some of the background colors dimmer.. good luck, and i really like this too!

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-=DryFire=-
'Reality is just a dream'
GoD Graphics

stneil777 · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 7:25 pm

yeah needs depth it rocks though.

Seph|roth · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 7:51 pm

Looking good buddy !
I like it a lot, maybe adding depth to the mountains like the others said....

Besides that, its awesome !

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- Seph -
Listen Without Prejudice

Frost · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 7:55 pm

Nice work Thrush! Something is throwing the picture off and I'm not sure I'm putting my finger on it, but I think it's a combination of lighting (where the elements don't blend in as one scene, and also the empty light portions on top/sides getting more attention then they should) and some perspective stuff... would need to spend more time looking into it and testing those in pshop.

Very nice though! Very detailed, lots of work in there!

Seph|roth · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 8:20 pm

stneil777, do you really have to post your own art in other people's threads...

I would be annoyed if I were the creator of the thread...

[This message has been edited by Seph|roth (edited April 07, 2001).]

joeb2000 · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 9:55 pm

okay here is one thing I saw wrong, the guy standing on the basket with the sword and shield looks as if he would fall if he were standing on the edge like that, he seems to be advancing as if there was ground in front of him. And he doesn't look as if he is trying to jump out at the orc... otherwise I think everything else looks great, with exception to the orc arm like you mentioned.

Matt Ryan · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:01 pm

Looks pretty sweet to me. the first thing that i would suggest is to and more depth to the rocks, they look very smudged.
on a side note the best way to get over the stneil thing is just to ignore him and dont reply to his annoying posts, just let him do whatever he wants, and he will eventually go away.

Collosimo · Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2001 10:05 pm

WOW! nice pic. A few issues with anatomy and that flat problem.

Awesome imagination though! This is probably why the pic is so nice.

In-Depth: I would love it if a pro critic said that! "Sweet" LOL

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/COLLOSIMO

Thrush · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 10:50 am

I just thought I'd post a few close-ups.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

Thrush · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 12:13 pm

Thanks for all the comments so far. The image has been updated to address the depth issue brought up by many. Tell me what you think. Not enough, too much, just right? Keep the comments comming, I'm listning.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

Strawberrysauce · member Member # Joined: 04 Feb 2001 Posts: 356

MYYYYYYY GGGGOOOOOODDDD! thatsadetailedpic!

love it, dont know what else to say that hasn't already been said.

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----- SHAMHEAD ----

zenonithus · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 12:18 pm

Quality pic! I agree about the mountain. It could do with more form around the sides. The shape of the mountain side looks too clean and straight. Nether the less, very good piece.

mjmcchesney · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 12:41 pm

Very nice job. I really enjoy the composition - some very nice shapes are created around the objects, and the eye moves about the image from bottom to top - as it should (seeing it is a book cover, the title will probably be at the top?).

The depth issue. I do not believe it is the "smudginess" of the mountain that is really taking away the depth from this image. Overall, I believe it is that too much of the composition is far too detailed. Just because you are able to throw in massive amounts of detail and then resize down doesn't mean you should...

Take, for example, the woman with the bow and arrow on the rope. The amount of detail that is present in her figure is even greater than the orc in the foreground. A few brushstrokes would have given a vague sense of form for the figure, but also emphasized the foreground actions. In addition, the rocks, in general, are the exact opposite. Both the fore, middle, and background rocks all have similar texture and similar amount of detail. Again, just blocking in major light sources would have sufficed for a great deal of this. Another quite confusing aspect is the size of objects in relation to one another. For example, you have the man pulling on the rope from the waterside--the other figures in the basket are at least 3 times as large--yet they are all on the same plane.

One other aspect is the position of all your characters. Every figure (with the exception of the man at the bottom) is completely horizontal in nature - foreshortening some of the figures would have greatly added to the depth of the image.

Finally, the lighting setup is very awkward. According to the perspective, the rope is alongside (or hanging from) the ceiling of the cave. Thus, the light on the side of the rope facing the viewer (in either case) would not be there. The ambient light really takes away, as some of the figures are affected, while others are not. According to the light source, there should be a clear definition between inside and outside the cave - yet the water, the many-faced statue, the stairs on the left, the orc in the midground, and the bats discard this.

Well, I may do a quick paintover just to show you

I hope I wasn't too harsh in this critique - you asked for one, so I'll put the blame all on you

-Marc

Thrush · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 12:55 pm

Yes! Yes! paintover. Make the crits hurt more. This is what I need. Thanks! Keep 'em comming.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

Thrush · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 1:21 pm

mjmcchesney- {For example, you have the man pulling on the rope from the waterside--the other figures in the basket are at least 3 times as large--yet they are all on the same plane.}

Haflings buddy! Work with me.

The one on the ground and the one in the basket at the other end of the rope are *both* haflings.

Keep 'em coming.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

mjmcchesney · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 1:25 pm

Have some work to do..just wanted to illustrate this extremely quickly. Yeah, it's fairly crappy, but just shows that you need to leave some edges out - everything has perfectly defined edges in the image, and everything is lit evenly in the midground/background. So.... take it or leave it. I prefer yours more

Thrush · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 1:36 pm

mjmcchesney- You've made some solid improvements in the lighting on this paint-over. I like the stuff you did on the figures in the basket, the leaping goblin and the stone pillar. I think it's way cool that you darkened down the bearded warrior advancing on the foreground goblin almost to the point of being hidden in the shadows. This is the kind of response I have been hoping for from y'all. Thank you! Thank you! Anyone else. C'mon & rip it up!

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

Matthias · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 5:39 pm

the warrior on the basket with the shield doesn't look right. If he's leaping, i think it should be shown better, maybe the right leg further up to show more power in the jump.

The lightning spell needs to have a more vibrant color.

The stalactites or malagmites, whichever they are, need to have a rougher, more jagged look. It looks too smooth right now.

Symo · Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2001 11:08 pm

I really like it!!!!

Thrush · Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2001 8:29 am

Yeah in retrospect I did'nt plan the warrior on the basket very well. Or.... I could claim that he *knooowwwwss* that the archer is about to fire and that he plans to use the stricken goblin as a landing pad... Yeah that's it! It's all a plan.

Seriously point well taken. Thanks. 8)

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

Sc00p- · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:19 pm

I really like it. Not sure about that fog rendition though, then the main portion of the pic is a bit too hidden, which brings me to my main point, is that the composition seems to lack a focal point, not becuase there aren't any, but becuase there are too many, so they all get lost. Try mixing up different sizes perhaps, as you have a lot of focal points that compete with eachother so the eye just kinda jumps all over the page. Maybe simplify it all a bit more? Turn it into less of a war scene, and more of a battle between just a few. Not that you should go that extreme and totally change everything, but that would be one solution anyway.

Also the depth of the characters, they look a bit paper-thin, but I guess thats been covered in the above posts.

I still think its fantastic and really don't feel it needs any change at all though. Some important elements of the picture might get lost though once text is put on it for the book cover.

Keep it up though, you're obviously a very strong painter and I think this is excellent work, terrific fantasy art.

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Rene Antunes
www.nytrographics.com
[email protected]

Thrush · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 7:22 pm

Thanks Sc00p. If I ever get time to do another scene similar to this one I must say thanks to this list I have learned alot. I can't thank you all enough for the feedback. Here is the final cover treatment that is going to press this week. I'll make my changes to this image in the next one.

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--<<{THRUSH}>>--
www.sunstorm.net/~dave

ChanXiaoHing · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:02 pm

That is a fantastic image, I especially like the goblins in the foreground bordering the image. I'm pretty late to read this thread, so pretty much everything has already been mentioned, and I apologise if I'm just repeating what others said, but that flying goblin still really bugs me. The way he is positioned seems very awkward. The way his arms are bent backward really don't suggest he is mounting any kind of attack. I tried to put my arms like that, and it just don't work. Also, the way he is facing makes me wonder where he is headed. He doesn't appear to be accomplishing anything; he isn't facing the warrior with the sword, nor is he facing anything else.

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~Ron Chan~
Ron's Sketchpad