Sijun Forums :: View topic - If you have an interest in the special forces/anti-terrorist

PandaX52 · Posted: Sat May 12, 2001 1:40 pm

Wow, from what I've read in books and other things, when someone is in a dangerous situation like this, when you could die at any moment, you learn something about yourself and you are almost become a different person. Not to glorify violence or anything. Just try to imagine what it would be like if you were in that kind of situation and what would be going on in your head. It makes you appreciate the relative safety we live in and take for granted everyday.

(edit) and that goes for everyone, not just the glorified american soldiers who were featured in the story.

[ May 12, 2001: Message edited by: PandaX52 ]

Lunatique · Posted: Sat May 12, 2001 11:09 pm

I just finished reading the online series "Black Hawk Down," detailing minute by minute of the 15 hours of the bloodiest/longest fire fight involving american Airborne Rangers/Delta commandos/Navy Seals/Nightstalkers in Mogadishu, Somalia, Oct.3/4 1993.

The 29 short chapters had me breathless for a couple of hours straight. It was such an intense read, and you feel like you are right there, as the bullets zip by, and explosions throw you against the wall. If you are squeamish, DO NOT READ IT. There are limbs blown off, slabs of flesh dangling, and heads exploding as our special forces fight for their lives against thousands of Somali militia/hired guns/clans.

You can read it for yourself here. This link has the version with all the multimedia stuff too:
http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/default16.asp

If you want to just read the text without all the multimedia stuff, read it here: http://www.nightstalkers.com/tfranger/blackhawkdown/Default.html

BTW, this incident is being made into a movie right now by the legendary Ridley Scott. It is scheduled for early 2002.

[ May 12, 2001: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

Affected · Posted: Sun May 13, 2001 5:20 am

Was this the one where US troops decided to go on a solo mission to capture the leader of some faction, and some of them got a bit lost, got into trouble with soldiers among the civilians, got helicopters in, killed about 500 people in one night - civilians, mostly, and finally forced the commander of another country's UN unit to help them get out at gunpoint?

EDIT: Sorry, It's been a while since I read about that. More correct figures would be 500 civilians dead, 1000 injured.

[ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: Affected ]

zero21 · Posted: Wed May 16, 2001 4:33 pm

Panda: While it is true that in crisis or extreme situations people react diferently the emotions involved usually don't kick in till after the fact.

You maybe suprised to know that during such situations of danger (in the middle of the brown stuff hitting the fan), You can reach a hightened awareness as adrenilin and other bio-juices kick in. It can be a circumstance where you make very clear and decise actions with the decision making thought processes of nuclear physist in a split second. Your total focus is so clear that you aren't actually conciously scared as far as you are aware of. Too busy dealing with the threat at hand.

Afterwards, now thats a diferent story. That is where the changes take place, and dealing with ones own thoughts/fears moulds a person drastically. Shock and re-evaluation after re-evaluation of actions and events, physical shaking, cold sweats and nightmares.

Two things to think of though,
1. professional soldiers are trained to deal with this side of things, and the after math should have avenues of support. I agree that they aren't paid enough monetry wise to compensate for their personal cost of living these experiences. And Im picking in most cases they will never be the same, and in some, perhaps not completely sane at that.
2. Being thankfull for the peaceful place and saftey I live in, Amen to that.
How much guilt however should I feel for being safe, while others are stuck there, and can't get out?

Just some thoughts, nothing intended to offend.

faustgfx · Posted: Thu May 17, 2001 9:48 pm

"they fucked up. the foos fucked up. they shoulda played more rogue spear and this idiocy wouldn't had happened!"

Lunatique · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 7:03 am

Well, when you've got bullets flying everywhere, it's kinda hard to think clearly. If our SPECIAL FORCES fudged it, I wonder how the AVERAGE human with no training perform under the same circumstances. . ..

mafi · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 10:19 am

hmm... wasn't this the battle where americans got their arses kicked so badly that they decided to start the landwarrior project?

[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: mafi ]

Lonewalker · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 10:39 am

Thanks for the links, Lunatique. Good stuff..
I appreciate your posts, they are worth taking a look at

Keep in mind though, that this board is filled with anti-American views and that posting this kind of stuff is going to vex people who view the world differently.

I comes with being a Superpower, everyone hates the guy on the top and no one appreciates what we have done. They whine about everything. Trust me, we could be worse...

[ May 18, 2001: Message edited by: Lonewalker ]

immi · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 3:05 pm

Hey Lunatique

Yeah, its a great story. I read it last summer at the same place as you and then got out the book, which expands on a lot of the stories.

I was actually reading another one of Mark Bowden's books this week. It's called "Doctor Dealer" and it describes the rise and fall of Philli cocaine dealer Larry Lavin. It's a good read aswell...you should check it out.

Lunatique · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 3:06 pm

Yeah, I tend to forget that america is mostly not liked in the rest of the world.

WTF have we done? They say we meddle in other country's affairs, but no one mentions the fact we have also SAVED and RESCUED many countries from being invaded/destroyed. If you just glance over 20th century history, the U.S. has done more than enough to maintain world peace. I wish the rest of the world would stop bashing america. It's bad enough we beat ourselves up all the time here back home. Lot's of anti-american views here already.

Anyways, I don't believe in racial/national/sexual boundaries. We are all human, and we all love, hate, cry, and laugh. If an alien race invaded us tomorrow, we'd all just be earthlings.

Brainswitch · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 3:21 pm

I haven't had a chance to read the story yet, but it sounds very cool. For those interested, there is a book called One Shot, One Kill. It's about U.S. combat snipers in WWII, Korea, Veitnam etc. It isnt exactly action packed, but it has great examples of how inhuman a human can be. One scene describes how a sniper crawled on his fingers and toes up to an extremely high security facility, he was on a top-secret mission to execute a Veitnamese General. He accomplished his goal, and in ten minutes he ran back the way he came to safety. It took him 2 days without sleep to cross that field undetected, and ten minutes to run back.

Chris · Posted: Fri May 18, 2001 11:00 pm

you know what is really sad about that, they always put the americans down, but we don't even say anything about their countries first

I just smell jealousy

Lunatique · Posted: Sat May 19, 2001 4:19 pm

TWO day???!!! Damn....

Count Zero · Posted: Sat May 19, 2001 10:45 pm

Tom Clancyish military masturbation.

Hlid Skjalff · Posted: Sun May 20, 2001 5:25 pm

America will burn !!! KGB-Alpha team Rulez!!!
Joke of course (but Alpha Team still rulezz :-))))))

[ May 20, 2001: Message edited by: Hlid Skjalff ]

Bjorn · Posted: Mon May 21, 2001 6:02 pm

Just my personal opinion:

America pats itself on the back on a regular basis. Why why why don't other people understand how much good they do??

People criticize this with good reason.

The problem is, most people forget they're no better, and their country sure isn't either.

I'm sorry guys, but the "America has saved so many countries" bit is wearing thin. If you look at political context, a lot of that wasn't protecting the innocent, but calculated strategy for the best of America.

But to show I'm not just here to start a riot (which I honestly am not), I'll also say this: Then next person that tells me how the Dutch (I live in the Netherlands) were so great during WW II, gets a punch in the face. The Dutch sold out largely.

My personal view is: rather than glorifying nations, let's remember the heroics of certain individuals in trying times and see if we can't learn from that to be the best we can be if we should be so unfortunate to be in the same situation. Yes, a soldier can be a hero even if a nation never should have sent the army in the first place.

Again, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings...
these are just my opinions.

Da Bjorn.

Hlid Skjalff · Posted: Mon May 21, 2001 7:30 pm

Bjorn, I TOTALLY agree with you!!! When putting the jokes away, that is what really matters, we should glorify not the power with which our countries clashed with the other countries, but the INDIVIDUALS who gave their lives for what they considered right... not neccessarily in wars, but just in gereral, praising those who deserve it, not some shitty ass politics who are black inside and are covered with countless faces expressing anything from 'sincere' compassion to malicious vindictiveness, FAKE!!!

Lunatique · Posted: Tue May 22, 2001 6:25 am

Good point!

Like I said before, it's not about what nation/race/sex/culture..etc. It's all about just being human and what you have to offer the WORLD.

Count Zero · Posted: Tue May 22, 2001 6:45 am

Can't! We! All! Just! Get! Along!

edit (this message is presented in William Shatner-speak for your convenience)

[ May 22, 2001: Message edited by: Count Zero ]

Brainswitch · Posted: Tue May 22, 2001 2:25 pm

Yeah I agree with what you guys are saying. Usually the mass opinion is so flawed I can't even take it seriously. Veitnam is a perfect example. Soldiers were drafted, often against their will, and thrown into a living hell. Meanwhile, instead of support from their country they are insulted and hated. People had no idea of what it was really like over there except for a bunch of news casts (and we all know how accurate they can be...). Yet they followed the mass opinion like sheep and spat on the soldiers who had fought and died for them, instead of protesting the politicians like they should have.

...ack, must...not...rant.....