[edible snowman]

its not too hard to raise kids without beating them yet still discipline them. granted i haven't raised any, but my parents and plenty of others did fine. its not the fact that kids get sat in front of the tv. its the fact that this is being substituted for parenting. if you watched a ton of tv, but still interacted with your parents, you would grow up fine. the solution isn't to let kids grow up in isolated bubbles with no contact to the media.

[PandaX52]

Children aren't as un-perceptive as we would like to think of them sometimes. When kids are growing up they naturally learn from their environment, soaking up information like a sponge. What they perceive and how they are treated in these vital early years, when they are more impressionable, will stick with them throughout the rest of their life.

Here’s part of a book I was reading:

In many animals there is a period early in life during which profound and irreversible learning occurs, a time, for example, when a duckling will follow anything nearby that moves as if it were mom-even if it's a bearded pioneer in animal behavior. This is called imprinting.
...The machinery stands ready for those who know how to use it. The young mammals have a nearly eidetic memory. But they have no critical faculties. They'll believe in anything-whatever they're taught. As the example of the parade of ducklings waddling adoringly after the ethologist reminds us, imprinting might lead, in unscrupulous higher animals, to misuse. The young are so ready to learn who to love and who to hate.

Parent's have a big responsibility during a child's......childhood!

[pixualize]

Why am I always the last one to post on this stuff?

Eric & Jezebel - I will have to completely agree with you on your posts. I had the priveleged childhood of being able to see any film I wanted and play any game because my parents trusted the fact that I was stable and could handle that type of entertainment. (Some would question that now

The same thing came up several years back with Role-playing games. Remember Mazes & Monsters, the TV flick that put Tom Hanks on the map? It almost killed D&D but after a while, stuff cooled off. Was I banished from my fav weekend activity with my high scool buds? No - because my folks realized we weren't whacked (like the Hank's character) - even though we did goof off for hours laughing and rolling dice.

The same stuff will likely happen with vid games. They may be required to put stickers on them or you'll have to whip out your ID you pick up Unreal VIII but the games will go on.

My wife and I thank the higher powers daily that we will not be having any kiddos ourselves. Too much to keep up with now...

[InDepth]

Edible Snowman,

I wholeheartedly agree and in my previous post I wasn't referring to beating your kids. I have never even thought about giving one of my children more than a pop on the butt. The thing I object to is parents being lumped into a group and labeled by the actions of the bad apples. There are good parents and their are bad parents... just like their are good people and there are bad people.

My daughter watches TV. But we also go the roller skating rink every Tuesday. She has swim classes on Tuesdays and Thrusdays. And, either myself or my wife is with our kids 24 hours a day. We both work but we have done it in a way that we don't have to rely on someone else to raise our children.

One other thing to think about is that once a child hits the first grade they are removed from your care for eight hours a day and 'raised' by underpaid teachers and thier friends whose parents may or may not have raised their kids with the same values as yours. I think THAT is when it becomes difficult.

In the end, I think that the best you can do is to be there for them as much as you can... try to instill in them the values you think will carry them far in life... and hope for the best.

I would like to talk to you again after you have a couple kids and see how your outlook has (or has not) changed

Eric

[edible snowman]

i wasnt even attempting to imply you were a bad parent. the one thing about school though, kids have to go out into the world and do stuff sometimes. parents have to guide them along the way, and gradually do that less as the get older. im sure it sucks for you guys, but kids are equally screwed up when their parents are over controlling.

[PandaX52]

plaffle!

[Dr.Squirley]

You guys also have to keep in mind that everyone here are artists and are the enlightend bunch that play violent video games...

please exuse dear aunt sally i mean my horrible grammar its been a long day

[ May 13, 2001: Message edited by: Dr.Squirley ]

[Awetopsy]

I agree with Jezebel whole heartedly.. when parents stopped being accountable for their kids it all went down hill..

believe it or not all the acts of violence all the bad behavior is a cry for some love and attention. what kids really want is for their parents to look after them.. and correct them properly.

I wont say how I feel about certain types of punishment but Ill say that I think if a child is old enough to plan a shooting at his school I think he old enough to feel the full force of the law. Murder is wrong no matter who you are!

is getting rid of violent games the answer? that would be like using a turkey baster to empty the ocean. there are alot more things than just video games to blame. why dont we start dealing with television/movies. why dont we start holding parents acountable for their childrens actions and start teaching North american parents how to actually keep their kids on track...

If your religious get back to God... if your not religious at least acknowledge that there is a problem and it needs to be dealt with. what am I saying? Im saying that at least when we had God to follow highschool shootings and teenage rape etc were very unheard of and the instances of children killing each other was low.
Im not preaching here but if you go back and look at history, its very obvious.

[Chris]

hmmm...well I'm glad your not preaching.

[Enayla]

Rape, abuse, and murder isn't something new. It's been there all along (it's more obvious today... we're all crammed so tightly together, there's so much stress...so much to do, so much pressure, so much future looming ahead of us. Bitterness, if you will). To claim that going back to "God" would help... no, please... just no. You can go whacko as much because you've had rigidly religious parents beating the crap out of you for not following their believes, just as much as you can go whacko for any other reason. This doesn't have to do with religion. I'm not religious, I've never been. I watch video violence, read horror stories, and all that - and I'd rather kill myself than someone else any day. I'd just never even imagine doing something like that. End of story. Has nothing to do with religion.

It has to do with my parents teaching me to love. That everything has a value. That other people are worth just as much as I am - and that animals are there to take care of, not to beat when they disobey. I'm a firm believer that even spanking is wrong, because it'll teach a child that violence is okay - if you disagree with the person you're applying the violence to. It's another matter altogether to watch something happen on the telly, than to experience your own parents spank you. Violence around us affect us more than when it's at a distance. A child watching his or her parents fight will be more affected by that, I believe, than by what he or she sees on the telly. I think that parents who spend time with their children, and teach them the value of life, will have children growing up into decent, respectful human beings.

Unfortunately, not even this is always sufficient. There's so much else going on in a child's life than what happens at home. School bullying for example. Some children are being kicked around in school without anyone ever noticing it. They learn that it's right, in a way, to treat others like that as long as you're stronger. Their parents might teach them to love, but school will teach them to hate.

Then there are the teachers, often so blind. Turning their face away and not wanting to see. Many teachers even help to bully the children, though they're not entirely aware of it all the time.

Teachers, other children, even people that the children might encounter in other ways (babysitters, neighbours)... all of these can seriously mess someone up. The parents might be loving and caring, but the world outside might be gnawing away at someone's soul bit by bit. Gnash gnash. It's so difficult to generalise and say that "this is the reason to why the children of today are so messed up" because there is a GREAT number of reasons. Disrespect for other human beings is one of those reasons, and that's nothing that's being taught in television shows, in the school, or even at home these days. It won't help no matter how much love you give your child, if no one else does the same for their children - the world will be cold and unreceptive, and some of us are weaker than others. Some snap, some don't.

To blame it on video games? How na�ve. That's one very, very small factor - it just happens to be a very visible one. It's easier to find a scapegoat on the surface then to dig deeper... there's a sewer floating right underneath us, and no one wants to fall into it.

[PandaX52]

People need to be more self-reflective, to actually think about who they are, what their motivations are in life, and to basically not be afraid to dig within themselves, instead of looking outward to things like violence, drugs, alchohol, sex,(religion?)ect. to solve unresolved problems. I'm not saying that everyone should become introverted snails, we just to be more perceptive about ourselves.

Blaming school shootings on video games is just like alchoholism in the way that people are avoiding looking at themselves and seeking something external to solve their issues, or at least provide some kind of gratification to numb their awareness of the problem.

You guys have made some good points concerning the issue thus far !

[ May 15, 2001: Message edited by: PandaX52 ]

[Awetopsy]

Um.. not trying to get you all mad at me or anything.. I guess some of the issues of life bug me a bit... as I believe it should bug everybody that a 13yr old kid walks into a middle school and blows away 14 of his/her peers.

by my last post I was trying to say that at least back then there was a collective sense of morality so things like 13yr old murderers was alot less common. thats why the mention of God... because when everybody had a God to believe in at least there was a social conscience.

It was in no way meant to seem arrogant or preachy.. Im really sorry that it did. I understand alot of you are still pissed at stniel777's arrogance and believe me Im not trying to do the same.

[Affected]

...coming back to this a little late, but anyway. The real question isn't why I should care about it, but why your congress should care about what I think.