[Mike]

Can some of you guys give me some input on these sketches that I did for one of my classes? Thanks

Mike

[Al_kgs]

As far as drawing technique is concerned it looks great.
I'm no boat-engineer but this rear mast bothers me... I think if boats have their masts in the middle, there must be a very good reason. Dunno, maybe I'm wrong

[edible snowman]

ill be honest, the only reason i looked at this is because i thought you were micke, but those are really really cool

[Krazy]

ya its nice to be honest im no boat engineer either but havin the mast at the back is sure to make a boat incredably hard to steer...other than that nice nice and nice

[Akolyte]

The space tug is a cool idea...nice chunky barge type ship.

[Vortx]

Hmm....i'm guessing you're a 1st or 2nd term student at art center? Who's class is this for?

One advice tho....make sure you know the difference between reference and copying. The latter can get you into a lot of trouble....

Anyways, these are looking pretty good. Watch your perspective tho.....spend more time on the initial marker sketching phase...



[edit] noticed you "referenced" the engines on this one as well.



-feng

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artbyfeng.com

[This message has been edited by Vortx (edited February 11, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Vortx (edited February 11, 2001).]

[Mike]

Heh... sorry feng. i was trying to learn from a few images a friend showed me of yours. I just started third term and this was for my viscomm 3 class. It was our first assignment. We basically had to do something in markers that was somehow made out of basic shapes. I am really flattered that you replied to my post.

[CapnPyro]

Unoriginality makes baby jesus cry

[The Incredible MGC]

I have mixed feelings about this and the whole "copying" issue. The Bible (NO I am NOT a "christian", but I read the book) says, "There is nothing new under the sun."

Basically everyone is influenced by everything they see, and I debate whether or not ANYTHING we draw is ORIGINAL. Some of the best artists and designers (Doug Chiang and other Star Wars famous artists) used BLATANT "ripoffs" of actual parts of real-life already existing technology, etc...

So I am more amused by than offended by his "lack of originality". I wonder is Feng would be flattered or disgusted? Hm... His response to this would be an indicator of his own security regarding his work... For I've noticed it's the insecure sort of person that is consantly concerned about his art being "stolen". hEh.

HOWEVER........ I will say THIS!

THIS is a good test to see whether or not you've "COPIED" or "USED FOR REFERENCE". Would you show Feng's drawings to your instructor? Would the instructor get upset? Does the thought of your instructor seeing Feng's drawings make you uncomfortable?

Obviously if you would show FEng's drawings to your instructor with no problems, your head is in the right place. If that scares you, it's in the wrong place.

THE BEST SOLUTION when you do something like this is to put at the bottom "Inspired in part by Feng's brilliant conceptual work at www.artbyfeng.com If you put a note like that on a drawing that so closely resembles something else, then it protects you a little bit from the attack of that artist and other artists... That's what I'd do... "inspired by feng" etc.

But you picked a good person to learn from... You can see the difference between good art and bad art, and that shows in the drawings you have chosen to take very literal inspiration from... And that's a lot of being an artist right now. Most artists that suck suck because they don't have the ability themselves to tell good art from bad art. And THAT of course is subjective...

anyway I'm rambling now.

As far as being a "COPY"? I wonder how that would hold up in court, legally. If I was on a jury I would not "convict" you of "copying"... To ME that opens up a whole big can of worms that would mean EVERYONE copies each other... (Some more obvious than others, and some doing it subconsciously when they draw things in their head they've seen before but don't remember consciously...)

HOWEVER ******ACTUAL****** copyright law talks about DERIVITIVE WORKS. And your drawing is certainly a DERIVITIVE WORK? For it not to be, you'd have to say under oath that you weren't using details from his drawing in yours.

I don't have an opinion on this matter but I think the topic is interesting, even if it's an old, overdiscussed one.

I say, @#$% it. "Shut up and draw!" =)
But if you reference other people's art so closely you'll get attacked by artists that see your work when you show it to them. =)

sorry for rambling.

[Vortx]

Heheh, interesting topic. Personally, I really don't care if a person copies or references my art. I actually take it as a compliment. It only gets a bit serious if that person is using it for profit (getting a job, selling the design, etc.). Since this is a clear case of a student practicing, i don't see anything serious. However, it would've been cool if Mike had put where he got his references from....since his designs are very close to my originals.

This forum as a lot of professional artists, and i know none of us will like if if someone copies our art. I only picked on Mike cuz it's just not good practice to rip-off art.

Yes, i also agree that no concept art is original. However, there is a big difference between coping and referencing. For example, if you're asked to design a high-tech tank, you would reference current tanks and try to build a design on-top of it. By incorporating existing real designs, your new design will feel more realistic. Doug Chiang does this...i see parts from motocycles and car engines; i do not consider this to be copying, but good use of reference. I think other concept artists will agree.

Anyways, i can speak forever on this subject. But all in all, Mike, it's all good, i have no problems w/ your stuff. Next time tho, mention where you got the references from. Btw, who's your teacher for VisComm 3? Brain Friztpatric (sp?). If it is, tell him i said hi. Oh, like i said before, spend more time in the marker phase. Plan out the perspective and details a little better before inking.

Okay, i'm tired. Talk to you guys tomorrow..

-feng

[The Incredible MGC]

Wow, you're FENG? Feng Zhu?! Heh. I thought "Vortx" just put "-Feng" to reference that it was Feng's drawings "he" was posting.

I'm new to the forum so I didn't realize Vortx=Feng Zhu.

It's real bizarre to see you here, as I've been watching ARTBYFENG.COM for AGES. And now to link your posts to your drawings... Like names with faces...!

So ... anyway I'm just a big fan of your work and it's cool to see you here. That's all! =)

is this a freakshow of a post? it seems that way. For some reason I feel like I come across like a "stalker" in this post?! LOL. Anyway, I work in the game industry too. I currently work at VERANT in San Diego and some of the games I've worked on as an artist are "DOMINION: Storm Over Gift 3", "G-NOME", and the beginning of "Return To Krondor"...

Oh yeah.. and.. <ahem.. cough.. silence>
Daikatana.
=)

[Matt]

Hey Feng -

All good comments - I'm sure all the up and comers will take heed. Glad to see some current ACCD kids posting here too. BTW, Bryon Fitzpatrick retired a few months back, AFAIK he's in Australia now. Don't know who's teaching viscom 3 any more...

later

Matt (Yeah, from school)

[Vortx]

Matt! Matt R? Damn, long time no see. Man, all my friends are popping up in this forum. Cool, how's it been? Where are you working at these days? Well, i'll drop you an email.... Oh mon, Brain retired? Damn, he was my favorite teacher there cuz he lets me draw chicks...haha...

MGC: Daikatana huh? hehehe...so you worked in the Dallas IonStorm division? I've been to the office in Austin...hmmmmm...nice desks and computers.....=)

Mike: Post more of your stuff. Now that i know what this is for, i can give you better crits...

-feng

[McSteed]

Gabe?

------------------
Chris the Great
www.mcsteed.com

[Ed Lee]

Yes, no man's an island. Two issues: 1) theft of an idea, 2) theft of a technique. I would have to say having met the man himself, Frank Frazetta was probably the most ripped artist of the 20th century of that genre. And still gets ripped off to this day. Anyway, my point being although Feng didn't invent mechanics and chicks, he did come up with a unique vision that sez "Feng" to me, like Frazetta who didn't invent barbarians and nudy chicks invent that unique look that sez Frazetta. No two person in this time and space has exact same experience...this in turn makes a person unique to interpret their vision to the rest of us. Mike's young and was simply inspired by Feng's work. He should have given Feng some credit I feel and should mention such a thing...but, he didn't and that he should own up to it, and he did just that.. Just my two cents... Ed--

[Liquid!]

Figured I'd throw my two cents into this one. I have to agree with Feng/Ed/MGC. While there isn't anything new under the sun, I think we can all agree that we recognize a different/fresh take on a particular idea when given the chance. I think that's really what it's about.

1. Theft of technique is a killer. Look at Drew Struzan, Frazetta, etc. Those guys didn't invent painting, but gave it their own unique twist. While personally I don't think anyone has ever been as good as these guys, I also think that they have been terribly hurt by the lackluster imitations out there. It tends to water down the concetrate of their original vision. Just my thoughts.

2. Theft of Art/Design. Is just as bad if not even worse. This is outright theft. No pretty words for this one. I'd call Mike's "inspiration" theft, to be truthful. Taking two parts from two different designs and combining them is HARDLY ORIGINAL. I think with enough patience/bananas you could train chimps to do this. So while Mike isn't really profiting monetarily from it, I think it's a "bad habit" to get into, especially if you don't credit the source. I also agree with MGC's "acid test". I doubt Mike would want to have any one of us show his 'inspirations' to his artcenter teacher. I think he'd run the risk of flunking.

Sounds harsh... huh?

-c

PS: yes I was trained on a steady diet of bananas... but that is a story for a different time.

[Duk3Nuk4n]

were did you get the reference pics(or any of those kinds of pic)? as for the drawings: L33T. what boat? what are u talking about?

Edit: oops, i didnt see it. damn thing didnt load 8P

[This message has been edited by Duk3Nuk4n (edited February 12, 2001).]

[Jason]

I especialy liked the boat. YOu can see the originality in it. I like to sail(might have something to do with it). But once I scroled down the page I to saw the very close resemblance to fengs work. Say stick with the ships. YOu have the skills to continue on doing your own thing. Once again, when I first opend The page and saw the sail boat thingy. I was impressed. keep it up!

[Jason]

I especialy liked the boat. YOu can see the originality in it. I like to sail(might have something to do with it). But once I scroled down the page I to saw the very close resemblance to fengs work. Say stick with the ships. YOu have the skills to continue on doing your own thing. Once again, when I first opend The page and saw the sail boat thingy. I was impressed. keep it up!