[SlightlyTwisted]

Okay. Explain this to me. Maybe I'm thick, but the following statement struck me as rather odd:

Remember that guy that had only one star voted by 6 people or so and he had like a hundret posts without any offense in them. He just didn't know why. I think that this person got rated one star by some angry moron. And some other members thought like: "Yeah, that must be someone of those fucking newbies everybody swears about." And they also rate him one star.

You say this, and yet you support Bugscratch and his modus operandi? That just doesn't add up... because Bugscratch is that one angry moron, to use your words.

Secondly, your argument that screwing with the system (which, I should add, is really glorifying his plan) is more effective than sending email is utterly false. Why? Several reasons... firstly because you essentially said "One person's email will change nothing, many people acting up will have a higher chance of getting a result." I hate to break this to you, but that works both ways. One person messing about means nothing, many people sending email demands attention. So effectively they're both as good/bad as each other. The difference being that while Dhab may not reply to most of his mail (and who can blame him?), he certainly pays a damned sight more attention to it than the fluctuations of various member's ratings.

Your defence of his actions based on the fact that you think the ratings should go is utterly inconsequencial. Why? Because not one person here has disagreed on that point. Have you even read the replies? It's his methods we had problems with, not his intentions. Good intentions pave the road to hell, and all that bullshit.

Lastly, Enayla. Oh dear, oh dear. Two words, for you, my friend: Fuck You. And I'm not even angry. I'm smiling, and laughing. At you.

Enayla is a very cool person. Enayla is my best buddy online, probably my closest friend including those I know IRL.

But that's all she is, as far as my opinons go. I am not a sheep following her unquestioningly. I am not a parrot trained to repeat her words. She does not pull my strings, and I do not answer her beck and call. She is not some magnetic force within this forum, attracting mindless worship where ever she goes.

She a person. A normal person, with opinions. Opinions I happen to agree with. If I back her up in a thread, it is not because the Holy One has stepped in here, and I feel a need to beat down any who oppose her. It's because I agree with her. I have my own opinions, and I refuse to keep them quiet simply because Enayla beat me to the punch, and everyone will think I'm just backing her up. Fuck you for suggesting that's the motivation behind my posts. "You're just saying that to back up your friend," is the weakest arguement in the book. I could just as easily claim that that you have no opinion of your own, you're only sticking up for Bug because he's the underdog.

Any opinion I utter within these walls is mine and mine alone. Enayla or no Enayla, I agree with Bugscratch, but he was an arse.

[Bugscratch]

Yeah, this forum has become too much of a hype towards certain individuals, namely spooge, Enayla, faust and a few others.
Especially in the case of faust, whom I've barely seen doing anything but curse at people or making pointless posts containing as much as two signs ( =( ) (apart from his bloated signature) likely with the intent of upping his post count, I can't understand that.

Thanks S4Sb for supporting my POV, I was starting to think I stand alone here against the masses.

[Socar MYLES]

On a lighter note...What's a bugscratch? I have this image in my brain of a little insect in the shower, scratching its back with a miniature backscratcher...You know...One of those ones with a loofah on the end.

I think I read somewhere in this thread that the whole rating-down thing was meant in a less than serious way. Let's not let it get too serious, then. Keep off each other's backs--even those of Enayla and faustgfx.

Me, I come here for...the atmosphere.

[v1510nAry]

I'm losing, somebody give me some more votes 5 stars.

Yea i agree this rating system silly.
I'm losing,

Can somebody please take the rating system off my like Enayla has here 1 off.

[faustgfx]

quote:

---

Originally posted by SlightlyTwisted:
Lastly, Enayla. Oh dear, oh dear. Two words, for you, my friend: Fuck You. And I'm not even angry. I'm smiling, and laughing. At you.

Enayla is a very cool person. Enayla is my best buddy online, probably my closest friend including those I know IRL.

But that's all she is, as far as my opinons go. I am not a sheep following her unquestioningly. I am not a parrot trained to repeat her words. She does not pull my strings, and I do not answer her beck and call. She is not some magnetic force within this forum, attracting mindless worship where ever she goes.

---

amen to the first bit. to the second bit, at least i follow her like a sheep. *nods*.

the rest of this thread i couldn't care less about.

(notice couldn't care less, instead of could care less which is the generic american way of saying it. 'i could care less' implies and means that the person is capable of caring less and thus cares to some degree. i couldn't care any less, though, means the person doesn't care at all.)

[S4Sb]

Slightly: Ok, I try to explain. Though it's hard if you didn't get the point yet. I guess it is my english tho.

You say this, and yet you support Bugscratch and his modus operandi? That just doesn't add up... because Bugscratch is that one angry moron, to use your words.

That was WAY before he started his frenzy.

"One person's email will change nothing, many people acting up will have a higher chance of getting a result." I hate to break this to you, but that works both ways. One person messing about means nothing, many people sending email demands attention. So effectively they're both as good/bad as each other.

Ok, maybe I was partly wrong at this point. BOTH ways are as good/bad as each other. So why not use this way?

The difference being that while Dhab may not reply to most of his mail (and who can blame him?), he certainly pays a damned sight more attention to it than the fluctuations of various member's ratings.

Right. That's right. And I'd like to add that I understand that he's busy and I never blamed him.

Your defence of his actions based on the fact that you think the ratings should go is utterly inconsequencial. Why? Because not one person here has disagreed on that point

SlightlyTwisted: If people honestly don't like me, then fair enough, and in that case, I want them to rate me down. Because I'd like all my votes, be they good or bad, to be meaningful.

A lot of others: bla...I don't care...bla

I understand that it's always easier to criticise and to just don't give a fuck. But we're not alone. You are also partly responsible for how the people who will/have join/ed here act and react. I guess that is again one point you don't see, eh?

And: Bugscratchs aim WAS to get people away from that "I don't give a fuck opinion". That's what that whole thread is about. That's what I defend.

Lastly, Enayla. Oh dear, oh dear. Two words, for you, my friend: Fuck You. And I'm not even angry. I'm smiling, and laughing. At you.

That's what I'm talking about. Your best friend. That is why you are NOT objectively.(right word?)(fair, neutral). That's a well known very strong comment. And you provided me with the evidence to that argument.

Socar MYLES:

Faust: *fart* Trying to act intelligent?

edit: grammar/spelling

[ April 26, 2001: Message edited by: S4Sb ]

[Jess]

blah blah blah.... long paragraphs of pointless words....

[S4Sb]

Jess: *fart*
Awesome how keen you are

[Affected]

In the end, the issue here is hardly whether or not the ratings are good. The real question is if terrorist tactics like the one bugscratch resorted to are acceptable on this forum. I think not. The reasoning behind such methods can only be along the lines of "I don't like this, so it must go, no matter what anyone else thinks".

This here is supposed to be a community, a group of people with somewhat similar interests. In such a community (and this is, of course, debatable), the members should decide on the rules and practices together, through discussion. Childish methods of applying pressure do not fit into that. Bugscratch gave himself the right to disregard the will of others on his own. No-one gave it to him. Behaviour like that will not help the forums in any way, but will only detract from what is left of the community.

Was starting a public discussion on the subject really that hard? Were you really so afraid most of us might not mind the ratings that you decided to try to force Dhabih to take them off, bugscratch? Really, that shows a tremendous amount of disrespect for your fellow posters.

[SlightlyTwisted]

quote:

---

Originally posted by S4Sb:

That's what I'm talking about. Your best friend. That is why you are NOT objectively.(right word?)(fair, neutral). That's a well known very strong comment. And you provided me with the evidence to that argument.

---

You totally missed the point, there. Or perhaps chose to ignore it on purpose.

The meat of the message was that, yes, Enayla and I are very good friends, but, BUT, BUT, that has no bearing on my opinions on Bugscratch's actions. The point was, I would have had and voiced the exact same opinions had she not been here at all. Enayla's participation in this thread had not even been the slightest concideration until you mentioned her.

Affected is exactly right about terrorist tactics; a self admitted attack upon innocent bystanders as a means of forcing the governing body to meet his demands, as opposed to a direct and civilised attempt to have his goals met. Had Bugscratch been defending the members of this forum against the ratings, we'd be having a different discussion. He did no such thing, though. He assaulted them for his own gain.

I think you might have missed the entire point of this debate; Again, I say, as you seem to ignore it everytime, everyone here agrees that the ratings need to go. Not one person has opposed that. We all agree. Some are content to live with it, others want it gone, but nobody has stood up against Bugscratch because he wants to get rid of them. What we are against is his chosen method; an attack on other people who have not done a single thing to deserve it.

[jcterminal]

screw this, i'm giving everyone 5's.

thankfully i've included what the stars mean in my sig.

[Jess]

Affected: absolutely right.

[Brainswitch]

Ok, first off I wanna say that I know too many people like bugscratch. They think they are special or heroic or something for doing something relatively insignificant. If he has such a need protest, he should take place in something that people actually care about. I mean, the real "rebels" actually do (not always) intelligent things to support their cause. Like an intelligent protest that the "man" will actually notice. I mean, it has been said that Dhab barely even watches the forums. So what the hell does he care about people's bad ratings? Think about it on a larger scale, is it really worth taking the destructive and irrational path to get rid of something you don't like? Does Holocaust ring a bell?(by the way, thats not a slam on the German guy, just a good example).

Oh, and one more idea. Everybody agrees that the rating system is dumb. Everybody says take the intelligent path, send an e-mail. well....why not? I mean, we obviously have some respected (and influential) members on this post. Why not motivate people to send in a bunch of protest e-mails? no sense talking so much about taking action when all your gonna do is well....talk.

[Akolyte]

This is why Sijun has been a joke lately (in some avenues), people like you bitching about something as simple as a rating system. If you don't like it, who the fuck cares? I don't like the new setup, but I don't run around with my dick hanging out screaming bloody murder. Obviously, Dhabih thought the rating system was of some importance, so he included it. Sijun is still the best place for us artists to meet online, but ignorant, obnoxious, airbags like you, spewing diarrhea from the mouth are really starting to bring it down. End of sentence.

[PandaX52]

all this about 5 tiny little stars?!

we could be debating evolution and creationism!....if we felt so inclined.


*sigh*

[Pat]

"The star bellied Sneeches had bellies with stars, but the plain belly Sneeches had none upon thars. Those stars weren't so big, they were really quite small, you might think such a thing wouldn't matter at all." --Dr. Seuss



[ April 26, 2001: Message edited by: Pat ]

[faustgfx]

s4sb: nope, unlike you it seems. rhinotwatface.

[wayfinder]

i dont understand why, if this course of action must be absolutely taken by you, bugscratch - why can't you just randomly hand out 5 star ratings?

let me follow this up with some thoughts i had about the whole matter:
IF you were to hand out 5-star ratings randomly, and mostly everyone else did that, too, then what? not everyone will. you're gonna have the occasional 4 or even 3. just like you'd have the occasional 2 or 3 if you try to downrate everyone and not all of us follow you. it doesn't make sense! we have practically the same situation now, centered around the 4. you change nothing. you just make people angry.

think about it.


peace.

thanks.

[dr . bang]

I'm playing Counter Strike

[faustgfx]

whatever was said in this thread which i still haven't bothered to read fully, alot of you still suck ass and shit.

[Brainswitch]

....ok.....

Why is this thread's existence pissing so many people off? Isn't this the purpose of a forum? not to mention the "random musings" section? Yeah so it's a dumb subject matter but we were, most of us, having an intelligent conversation about it.

If you think it's so stupid and pointless, why are you reading it and replying?

[S4Sb]

I just returned from school. Maybe I reply to everybody later. But I will have to repeat myself again... . But there are two things I like to mention now.

1st: I really DO appreciate the way, how lots of people treat this argument. Thanks a lot to Affected and SlightlyTwisted for that one. A pity that I can't explain myself better to Slightly. You don't seem to get my points. I'll try to get another dictionary.

2nd: Brainswitch is ABSOLUTELY right. Comments like:

quote:

---

Faustgfx: whatever was said in this thread which i still haven't bothered to read fully, alot of you still suck ass and shit.

---

or:

quote

Quote:

Akolyte: I don't like the new setup, but I don't run around with my dick hanging out screaming bloody murder. Obviously, Dhabih thought the rating system was of some importance, so he included it. Sijun is still the best place for us artists to meet online, but ignorant, obnoxious, airbags like you, spewing diarrhea from the mouth are really starting to bring it down. End of sentence.

will take us NOwhere! Please keep those mental flatulences to yourself and the ghetto you came from. It's just a proof for your post-puberty-forced-vulgarism(?) (postpubert�ren Zwangsvulgarismus).

edit: grammar

[ April 27, 2001: Message edited by: S4Sb ]

[faustgfx]

yeah well, without people like you my fuckyous would be left unsaid. DUH.

[S4Sb]

Oh well, never got over the fourth grade, eh?

Feel sorry for you

[faustgfx]

i wouldn't know.. entered the professional graphics artist/designer job at 17, i did.

[S4Sb]

Ah, I could answer that another year of education would have done you well. But what the hell. I don't even know you. I can only talk about those guys who act like you. And those people fail in the 6th grade. But seems like you went to school quite long.

Well,

I couldn't care less. -FaustGFX

[Loki]

faust: you forgot to mention your NDA and that you're making money with it ...

[faustgfx]

well i kind of figured out that i wouldn't have to emphasize it with words that a job gets money.

unlike for some others it seems, i didn't need to past jr high. i laugh at you pitiful fucks who waste your life in schools. it's not like a high school will actually get you anything that's actually useful. unless you're a vegan hippie like affected who went to a art hippie high school who actually bought one of his paintings.

[S4Sb]

?!?!

Well, the reason most of us take part in some school system is that they want to get the chance to choose a better job. To can choose at all.
I guess that there are just very few people who go to school, because they think they will learn for life there.

Not everybody is as lucky as you.
What are you going to do when you get dismissed anyway? Are you going to do what you do your whole life? *rethorical question*

What is NDA?

[Bugscratch]

Yeah, faust, well, I could go on and on discussing why I believe that going to art school is good, but I won't since your education is not what I'm criticizing about you. It's just your way of handling discussions. I could discuss why I still believe in my standpoint around here but I won't. I still haven't changed my opinion and stand 100 % behind everything I did and said in this thread. The same way that I haven't changed my point of view I know that you people won't change yours so I won't spend my time discussing it over and over again. I simply have different priorities in my life right now, and thus I will let this topic and this forum rest. If there's one thing I noticed over the last few days, then it's that I just don't care anymore. I'll be gone for a while if not forever. You may consider this a win (one moron less) or not, I don't care. Maybe it's better to have all the morons in one forum and all the intelligent people in another. Which forum houses the intelligent persons and which one houses the morons is open to discussion, but it's not a discussion I'm gonna join. Thanks to those who tried to talk sense into me in a good natured manner, and fuck you to those that resorted to screaming and cursing. Have fun and see you around, Bugscratch

P.S.: On Socar's lighter note, a Bugscratch is a lame username derived from the name of "Catscratch" from the computer game "Wing Commander IV" and it's actually so lame that I'll drop it as soon as I can.