[Drew Gilbert]

So I've been doing 2d animation for years, basically, I'm a cartoonist, and I'm trying to shake off some of those sensibilities to get into 3D design work and conceptual art. Here's a pic.



It says SKETCH and FINISH, but the more I think on it, the less I'm convinced it's finished. I could really use some thoughts, anything that could be constructive to help me out. This is just the beginning for me. My career is at a crossroad, and I think I'm going to steer in this direction.

[Yacobs]

I think it's really cool looking. You obviously have drawing skills

One minor thing: the perspective on its collarbone is wrong. It looks like its bending towards us when it should be facing left with your creature.

Otherwise, really cool.. I'd love to see it colored in.

- Yacobs

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: Yacobs ]

[Gimbal8]

Can you give us a better idea of what you are aiming for? Like maybe an example of what you would considered finished for the direction you want to take your career in?

I guess maybe you can get a more finished look by adding marker colors to it. Or maybe adding light and shadow in some way to give it more of a form. Is that the direction you are going in?

[Drew Gilbert]

Well, as far as wether it's finished or not, that's more or less the question I was posing to all of you. If I want to become a developement/conceptual artist/illustrator for a game company with an eye towards learning texture mapping, then modeling, then animation (I know it's broad, but I imagine this in tiers, where my current strengths get my foot in, and I train as I go to learn the other aspects of game creation. each thing I listed would be the goal after the previous one).

I've taken 3D classes back when I went to school, but the software has changed radically. I'm not concerned with being able to learn new software. That's never been a problem. Right now I need to focus on what I can control, which is developing these skills.

I don't know if that answered any questions or not. Check out my web site to see my other work. I have a ton up there.

[Drew Gilbert]

I just realised I didn't finish a sentence, so here:

If I want to become a developement/conceptual artist/illustrator for a game company with an eye towards learning texture mapping, then modeling, then animation (I know it's broad, but I imagine this in tiers, where my current strengths get my foot in, and I train as I go to learn the other aspects of game creation. each thing I listed would be the goal after the previous one), then what would I need to get this particular piece to be presentable as a good example of my work? Is it ready as is? Does it NEED to be colored?

That there is the finished sentence

[Gimbal8]

Drew, mighty fine artwork you have. Great sense of style.

Ok I think I understand now what you are asking. Now I'm no expert on this so take everything I say with a grain of salt until someone with more credentials can better answer this.

If the ultimate goal is to take an idea and get it in a game as an animated 3d object then I would look at concept images this way:
Does the image give enough information to someone who looks at it that they would be able to make an accurate 3d model out of it?

In other words imagine if someone handed you that image and said 'make and animate a 3d model for this'. A large amount of gestural drawings (to show how something moves etc) and rough ideas is always better then having a couple highly polished pictures (so I would say the image is as finished as it needs to be for the most part). Multiple angles and detail shots to explain form and function to someone who might be looking at it is always beneficial. Just about anything can be made into a 3d model, but a good concept goes a long way in making the transition easier. For example: all those tendrils hanging down might have a purpose to the creature, but imagine what the game designer might say about the cost in cpu cycles that all those things would take up in polygon count, lighting, and animation (and heavens forbid each of them be tied to a physics algorythm). Of course you could always make a single bone that they are all tied to so the physics engine only has to deal with that one bone to get around this issue. But Those are the types of trade-offs one might have to consider doing the concept work.

[Drew Gilbert]

Thank you Gimbal, those are good words. This particular character would be a tough transition into 3D, I'm thinking. A different example of my art that is much better at giving all the information would be this one:



This was done specifically for an old co-worker to create in 3D that he never got around to. His work can be found here

The piece in my initial post was really more like, could I show this to an art lead/director and expect them to say "yes, go develop that" or "no, that's good but not what I want, OR would they laugh at me.

[Drew]

(In re-reading this, I realize that I might sound very critical. I hope you take it as constructive criticism because that's the way I intended it.)
What kind of game are you making this for? It looks rather cartoony, so if you're looking for that then you've done well. But looking at this creature, I find myself wondering just what's going on with the anatomy. In nature, most of the time it's fairly easy to guess what each part of a creature is for. But as I look at the antennae, I'm wondering why the rest of the creature isn't an insect. Where's the mouth? Is that neck skinny or thick, with tissue connecting to it near the base of the skull? Those arms are so skinny compared to the hands, is this a tree dwelling creature with great hand strength? Shouldn't it be in a tree if it is? What are those tendrils for?
Second creature: First off an animator might want to know what his legs are like so he can animate properly and as you envisioned. You've again captured a cartoony feel, so I hope that's what you wanted. The sketch on the right makes him look quite off-balance, he's about to fall on his face.
If you're shooting for a more realistic look, you should try drawing animals from pictures for a while, or better yet, head to the local zoo if you're lucky enough to live near one. Good luck with your career change!

[dogfood]

Right now it doesn't look like it weighs much, if anything, because of the fingers. If they splayed out a bit more, showed a little compression... It looks very bulky, but is missing the feeling of mass.

[Drew Gilbert]

(I actually had a whole response typed out last night, then the browser crashed. Poor me. Here I go again) Critical is what I asked for, so don't worry. I get alot out of what you've said. Neither of these pieces were done to spec for anything or anyone. I really just went with what my imagination wanted to go with. One question I have is, what makes the pieces cartoony? does the inclusion of an outline for the features make a thing cartoony (which is what I assume)? Or is it your thinking that the forms that you are looking at in these pieces just *are* cartoony in themselves? Just curious. And, is that necessarily a bad thing? I guess it's subjective to what the art leads want. I like your comments about anatomy. I never really gave any thought to the physiology of a thing, but I suppose that is important.

Is it your opinion that a fantastical creature be understandable in it's anatomy, even at the expense of being pleasing to the eye? I think it's an important question because if so, Then I can only really look to nature to create my forms. There aren't any more perfect machines and forms than what nature has created. I tend to think that is somewhat limiting. I can probably be convinced otherwise though

It's funny you mention the second piece's anatomy. I actually did that initially. I have no idea why that didn't make it into the end design. I'll have to dig around. If you saw how I built it, you may change your mind about it's balance issues.

I guess that's about all I have to respond with. Those were great comments. Already I'm inspired to create something more thought out and finished. Thanks!

[Gimbal8]

Nothing wrong with being cartoony or the anotomy being a little off compared to the common mechanisms developed by organism that have adapted to various environments here on the planet we all know and love. Unless, of course, you were asked to be more realistic and implement 'life's devices' in all the anatomy you create for your creatures.

I doubt the art director at Pseudo Interactive asked the art department for gritty realistic characters when making Cel Damage, for the same reason you can't rocket-jump in Ghost Recon. It's all about getting everything to come together in the final product as one coherent vision.

I think the outlines parts of the drawing does give it a cartoony like look, but that isn't a bad thing. If you don't have them already, take a look at the Star Wars art books that show all the conceptual illustrations done for the movies. Some things have a cartoony look, some don't, but they all convey the idea to the model makers or costume designers etc. There are also a few video games that have art books related to them out that might be helpful to look at (although most are imports and can be pricey).

[Drew]

I'm glad I could help you.
There are a few things about you work that makes it seem cartoony. For the first piece, the different parts of the beast look like they came from different animals. That gives it a whimsical feel, which is enhanced by the big eyes. Add to that the dark outline, and it looks quite cartoony. :-)

As for the second, parts of it seem disproportionate. The arms are long enough to touch the ground, and are too skinny to be useful at all. That would be fine if there were tiny little hands, making us think this creature probably relied on intellect instead of brawn, but the hands are fairly large. That as well as the massive head make me think of an inept Disney bad guy.
As far as the supposed trade off between being pleasing to the eye or having understandable anatomy, I think the hard part of being a concept artist is making it both of those things.
I think it's interesting that Gimbal8 brought up Star Wars concept art books, I was going to tell you the same thing. You'll find notes in some of them telling how the artist was inspired to design tanks or spaceships by looking at animals and taking their basic shapes.
Gimbal8, that book you linked looks very interesting, I'll have to hit the library.