[Novacaptain]

Hello. I was thinking about making this here painting, but i don't really know If I'm on the right track. It's supposed to be a Japanese WW2 pilot. I usually start like this but when I've gone on with it for 10 hours I notice that it looks flat, lifeless and artificial (especially when i'm trying to do something life-like) and then it becomes an unfinished painting that just takes up space on my hdd.

Please comment and I'd really appreciate it if you could give any comments on the composition too.

[Gothic Gerbil]

Maybe you should start by making a clean sketch with defined form and values and base the painting off of that so that you won't be guessing about where to place the said forms and values which are the building blocks of, well, everything. Colour is secondary. Since the primary has been figured out, then you can more easily concentrate on the secondary. Just an observation, based on what I see here you should probably look a bit into colour theory. Hrmm, I'm starting to loop I think. Well whatever you do, have fun!

[Novacaptain]

Color theory? Wow, I feel so way in over my head here...

It's not like I haven't done this before...but it doesn't seem to work well for life-like drawings. I maybe need nore time though and practice drawing from life.

Here are two examples of some previous paintings done similarly:



10 miutte sketch



final (charavter design is credited to [email protected])


Here is another one done in the same way



2 minute sketch



Final, although this is a character that I had drawn a few times on paper previously..


I understood what you meant though...and I think it's a very good idea - something that I'll definately experiment with.

Color theory?...Does anyone know where I could find some pointers on this online or can you perhaps recommend a good (looks around, hunches forward and whispers) *book?*


[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Novacaptain ]

[Novacaptain]

I've been doing some reading around the board and I noticed that I lack a lot of essential BASIC knowledge and practice with basic shapes.



Just to show that i did pay (some) attention

[lazydead]

[ December 23, 2001: Message edited by: lazydead ]

[Novacaptain]

(gasp) I think I'll keep these for later and draw something else for now. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate this valuable lesson you've taught me. I notice that there are quite a number of things that I've overlooked.

quote

Quote:

Novacaptain: Don't think too much of achieving realism. Stuff looking real is just a result of doing the painting the right way. I hope you understand what i'm trying to say. do more!

- Mr. T

It makes sense now.

[roundeye]

who said he was looking for that, lazydead? dont be such a pompous ass in the future, please. thanks.

[Novacaptain]

Really, roundeye...it's alright

[lazydead]

Maybe I over stepped... sorry if I came across that way...I was just tired and didn't feel like typing a bunch out after doing it. After I posted I thought about re-wording the post but....I didn't for the same reasons.

"who said he was looking for that"
I thought it looked like Novacaptain was going for a heroic/sentimental look to the pic.
I saw a lot of potential in the drawing but the composition was holding it back. I was trying to illustrate these same compositional problems I thought Novacaptain was asking about.

Novacaptain:
Sorry if this was taken the wrong way.
I'll ask first next time...
BTW I really like the cueball headed guy.

[ December 22, 2001: Message edited by: lazydead ]

[Novacaptain]

Actually...
It was exactly the look i was going for - except i hadn't thought of a lot of important things that you illustrated:

The reflection on the water (waves), the darkening of the character due to standing in front of the lightsource, the more detailed shading and dynamic lighting. The extra ships and planes are also quite an improvement that probably would've been "missing".


You were right on the money about the feeling that I was trying to get across too.

The japanese fought a fierce but rather doomed naval campaign at the end of the second great war and were close to surrendering when the US a-bombed two of their cities. So yes it's a pretty well-suited mood.

Even if *none* of this were correct - the "repaint" is an equivalent to a 1000-word reply with useful comments, from which i'd have the choice to pick out the suggestions that I agree with or hadn't thought of.

...And there's more: the effort and attention diverted for my sake is something that I appreciate no matter how little our views on the matter coincide.

So don't you dare to apologise. Asking for permission to do good deeds? I think not!


I'm glad I saved the picture before you removed it.

[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: Novacaptain ]

[lazydead]

I'm glad you didn't take it the wrong way. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was telling you the "right" way to do it. I intended it to be more along the lines of a "food for thought" type of thing.
At first I thought that overpainting someone's work was insulting, then I saw a few examples where words could not have expressed the concept as well as an overpaint.

I'm so relieved that you're receptive and actually interpreted the post correctly.

So here's what I should have said in the first post:

You may want to stay away from a square as a canvas. Pick either portrait or landscape and the exact dimensions are up to you. This alone can express a lot of feeling since the size and shape of the canvas is the first impression a viewer gets.
I subconciously picked a cinematic aspect ratio to help push the "big event" feeling but this would work just as well as a portrait, like a movie poster.

You may also want to keep your focus objects away from the center of the canvas. Think of a canvas as being divided into thirds. These dividing lines are the general areas where you want to put things of importance. Really important things usually go where the lines cross, like the eyes in my example.



I didn't follow it exactly but then you don't have too. They are just guidlines to help lay out the foundation of the image.

I thought that having his eyes closed gave it a very somber feeling. Like it's a proud but sad moment. That feeling came across even though it was a rough sketch, that's very good. From there the astmosphere was set, the dark figure, the bright sun, spray obscuring the view in the distance...stuff like that.

After going back and looking at it again I think all the ships, planes and main figure should be looking/going in the same direction. If he's on a ship moving to our left then there must be one hell of a wind coming from our right. Maybe flip the background ships to point toward the right too. That gives a more consistent impression of motion.
I just figured out that's a sword handle in his left hand by his hip. Me cutting him off at the waist doesn't help that any, but I think it would be clearer if rendered further.

"from which i'd have the choice to pick out the suggestions that I agree with or hadn't thought of"
Like a buffet of ideas!

I think you got it.
Glad I could help.

[lazydead]

I forgot to mention something else about the thirds "rule". The areas defined by the lines can be further divided by thirds giving you the positions of the two sets of planes and the offset boats in the distance.

[Novacaptain]

Thanks a lot! I think i've never recieved such considerate attention online. This is really great. I've saved the whole thread to hard-disk to use as future reference - not as law - but as steady guidelines to aviod making future mistakes.

The ships' turrets are actually mounted on the rear end (i don't know if warships have that in reality but i thought it would be cool)...so they're all going to the right (against the wind).

Thanks again, and again...

[CyberArtist]

Ah, the good ol' rule of thirds. Excellent rule to follow, or break. One thing to remember about art, no matter how many people try to convince others that art has to be a certain way, rules are there to be broken. Learning how the many "rules" of composition work, and what effect they have on the viewer is one thing. Learning how to break those rules to your advantage is another.

Quick example:
Your b&w sketch gives the look similar to that of a passing photo someone in your family might take of you. It's more candid due to it's centered nature. It's also heavily weighted to the right (planes, boat, most of the body of the pilot, as well as the direction he's facing) both gives yet more of an impression that this is a quick, passing snapshot, as well as creating some motion to the image, as if everything is moving to the right, or that the camera is moving to the left.

Lets look at the first color drawing you did. Again, centered. I'd say this image is a little more balanced. The propeller and wing in the upper left, and the ... whatever is in front of his left hand (sword handle?) ... in the lower right. The pilot is again dead center. This image is more relaxed, almost somber. One could imagine the pilot just got back from a long flight, but isn't happy to be back, as if he's back safe, but his missing was a failure, or he lost a crewman. etc.

The image Lazy did is balanced, giving that relaxed feel again, but more epic as it's off centered. It's more visually appealing and the eye moves around the image more because of this, and because of the placement of the various items in the image. Because the pilot is facing towawrds the center of the image, your eyes go in that direction, and see the boat. From there then go up to the planes and back to the pilot.

Hope that helps. I'm a composition nut. I guess that's what taking photography lessons will do to you.

Oh yeah, and since this thread IS about how to START a painting, again, any method works. A quick sketch is usually helpful. Some people like to do quick mini-paintings like you do, other will do big black shapes showing the major elements. Some people just pick up the brush (or mouse / tablet pen) and start right in to the painting. Picasso worked that way. He'd just get a bunch of paint and start slapping it on to the canvas, doodling this and that, till he got something he liked and he ran with it.

I personally use all methods, just depends on what I need. Sometimes I know exactly what I want and just slap it down. Other times I'll sketch it out carefully to work out the details. Yet other times I'll put down detailless black shapes or blobs of color and go from there. It all depends on the style I want the image to have, the part of the image I'm focusing on (details, composure, colors, etc.) for that image, and just what I happen to feel like doing right then and there.

Basically, don't worry yourself about what's the right way, just do it and eventually you'll find a way that's right for you.

[ December 24, 2001: Message edited by: CyberArtist ]

[J-D Leon]

how come nobody give me some valualbe criti like above?

everytime i post people would boo me.

i love drawing... because it is the only way to save the fansy in my head.

alright people. i will get my tablet soon, and show u my coloring. please dont boo my sketchings.

[Light]

I didnt read all the post.. but Nova I like your work.

I just wanted to put down some different ways for doing a painting.

Theres no one way or right way. Painting is a process of refinement. However there are some ways that seem to work better then others.

Get the shapes right first with a good sketch

Clean this sketck until there is no possibilities. A sketch can be good but offer multiple possibilities this is bad for painting cuz you may not know which one to follow.

Then form basic light and shade with only 4 grays..

then add color and refine.

Remember to work from big brush to smaller brush..

jsut an idea..

[Novacaptain]

Thanks a lot! That's really helpful. I've seen unfinished pictures using various techniques described here but It's hard to figure out whe whole process based on an image. These explanations are certainly going to become useful in the future. (saves page).

Merry christmas everyone.