[Merekat]

Hello!

Normally I don't post my extremely rough drafts or even sketches until after completion, but this is a new type of drawing for me, and I've been wrestling with it. I hope you might be able to help me settle some 'maybes' here.

Okay. Here's the deal: Remember my picture "Jhenna, Freelance Cop" from the Gallery/Finished Work long ago? Jhenna.
Well, I like her so much I'm going to make her a running theme as it were. Since she's freelance, sometimes she's alone, sometimes with a partner, sometimes with a team. In this new one, she's with a partner she regularly works with (a buff asian dude! Yum!! what gal wouldn't want to draw that??).

*ahem* Anyway, they're scouting out/Indiana Jones style investigating an ancient temple built around the worship of a rather HUGE monster with tenticles (working on how he looks, please be patient). There are two large stairs running from wall to wall on two sides of the temple: where the entrance is, where the altar is (opposite wall). The middle is covered in water (monsters like that) and the only way to the altar are two bridges on stone tenticals (one of which is behind the viewer and isn't seen).

Here's the story: they're investigating. Dude (to be named later) is ahead kneeling on a large part of a fallen stone statue. Jhenna is behind reading an instrument that reads 1) them. 2) something VERY VERY big below them. She drops her flashlight in shock (it illuminates something on the way down) and draws her gun at her waist while holding the instrument in her left hand. Dude had heard something (before the splash of the flashlight) and motions back to her with a 'shhh!'. (he is currently unaware of what Jhenna knows).

Okay. Here's the pics. The sorta details/ general pose of Jhenna (upper left girl) and sorta general pose of Dude (lower right guy--to be more asian when I get reference) here.

Here's my musings on the angle and the temple: here. I'm aiming towards 'A' with a bit of 'B'. ...but I also fear the angle and water thing are too reminiscent of my original Jhenna piece. but dangit! it's just such a cool angle!

I could really use some brainstorming or a general thumbs up if I'm on the right track. This pic will be in daylight with the temple being lower lit and murkier towards the water. Sorry the sketches are so rough.

What do you think? Is it cool? Can I pull this off? What should I name Dude? ;} heheh

Any suggestions would be great. Thank you very much. ;}
______________________

UPDATED HERE:

Hi all! Thought I should resurrect the same thread rather than create a new one. I have reworked the scene idea mentioned above and come up with this:



My questions:
1) can anyone visually show me how to fix the perspective of that staircase? I want it to spiral down to the foreground plane, but for the life of me, my perspective isn't advanced enough to wrap my head around it. The whole thing looks wonky. It's leaning (the rail especially) and the stairs aren't right at all. ;{

2) the guy's position: should the leg be up or down? I kinda like it up so that he's haunched over, but people are telling me that is an unusual and unrealistic pose. if he's slightly special-forces trained, he'd be only one leg up, wouldn't he? and how would you have him hold the gun? I've been wracking my brain trying to figure him out. I want him strong, but unsure of the noises he just heard. I don't want him crouching in fear at all.

BTW, my friend who is posing for this will have access to a military AUG riffle prop.

Finally, don't forget, Jhenna is reacting to the info on her instrument and the fact her dropped flashlight is illuminating a tenticle under water (see above links 'a');}

If you wonderful people have any suggestions, I'm all ears. I would like to have the matters settled before I start coloring. ;} THANK YOU SO MUCH in advance for any aid or opinions you might have. ;}

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Merekat ]

[Jezebel]

Heya Miss. Merekat =)

I think your idea sounds great... pretty exciting just to read that tiny description. However, the sketches are a bit too small for me to make a lot of sense of. The first ones especially. But from what I can tell, the tilted frame in the second image is VERY cool. Are you actually thinking of making the piece at that angle? If so... I like it =)

Maybe you can post some images that are a wee bit larger? ^_^

[Jezebel]

Doh... you know what I just realized?

IE6 is resizing the images! Grrr... ok, forget what I said.

*giggles at herself*

[nightmare]

ooh ooh! name the dude Exodus!

[Merekat]

Thank you Jez. ;}

Night: umm... too superheroish. ;} but thank you for the suggestion.

Anyone else? Please? :}

[frostfyre]

Reminds me, for some reason, of the Dragon's Lair arcade game. Something about the shocked pose on the future asian man.

Anyways, fwiw, I think the poses are both solid. With the backdrop, I like "A" if I'm reading those tall shapes as windows correctly. If they aren't then in "B" where they look more like a bridge. In "A" I can just see shafts of sunlight pooring out of the arches, picking up smoke, water splashes, etc, and re-inforcing that already really dynamic composition. So I guess I really like my imaginary "A" really well

Yes, its really similar to the previous piece, but so what- once in a while you get a riff going, and you keep it going for a while. What matters is that you're having fun doing it!

Look forward to seeing th finished piece!

[Matt Elder]

Just reading about the idea and the amount of thought you put into the pieces was cool. Then having a look at your intrepration / direction that you are heading with it also rocked! Yeah I thought the original water idea was really cool and well executed. I think since you are doing a series, you can 'get away with it' but if every piece you do from now on involves knee high water, you could be going to the wishing well one time to many (damn water analogy!).

shhhSKETCH3.jpg has potential but something is bugging me about it. I think Pheonocon (fee-no-con: that is what I'm going to call the 'dude') should have is right arm much further around as if it has snapped back to 'ssssssh' here. I thinking the expression on his face should be one more of frustration in that he has been trying to listen and has now been distracted, and/or had their position given away. At the moment the scene for mine seems a little bit comical... maybe it is the expression on their faces in the sketch.

I'm not sure about the Jhenna's pose. Maybe it would look better to have her reaching down trying to pick up the fallen object, searching around with her fingers while her eyes are still fixed on the 'reader' in a balancing act.

I think if you pull the 'camera' in on c and have the Pheonocon and Jhenna standing much closer together, for mine, it would be much better than A and B. From what you've shown thus far, I don't like B cause I don't get a sense of any one main object to look at. A will be 'tricky' cause I think attention will be drawn to the monster a great deal so whatever you do with the characters is a little redundant. It also means you have to be a great deal of thought into the monster as otherwise it might come across as a tacty, overgrown octapus that just crawlled out of hell.

I think with C if you pull it in, you focus more on a human element with Pheonocon and Jhenna. It means that there will be less of a monster and becomes more up to the viewer to use their imagination to fill in the gaps as one will only see the tentacles. It also means their facial expression will convey their situation.

Just a few thoughts and I look forward to seeing how you go with it so make sure you keep us up to date.

[itchi]

wow merekat, just checked out your site. your painting skills are absolutely SICK!!! (in a good way ^^) where are all you young talented people coming from?!

great shots in A,B, and C. i like the C shot but it doesnt give as much information. so for me i would say A because of the forced perspective and splashing elements in the foreground. even the little bit of tile adds to the kineticness of the piece. cant wait see the finished piece!

name? dang that is such a personal thing...... blake?....cole?..... dont listen to me i'm looking around the room at items i have (books and my book bag haha)

[Alen]

Man, that is great.
I gotta start learning how to do backgrounds..

[Merekat]

Wow, thank you everyone for your enthusiasm! ;} Yes, I do believe the general census is (on this forum and others) that 'A' is the best way to go.

frost: yes, sunlight will be streaming through the windows into the rather murky water below. I'll have a bit of mist/fog wafting off the water's surface. Bit of bog-like stuff down there. ;}

Matt: yes, that character sketch of the guy was more for clothing than anything else. he will look like a buff asian. ;} trust me, I have a model. And I think I will put him in the body language you see with 'A', not the sketches for the characters. I don't want him wimpy, I want him listening as Joey in Lost in Space would have done, mixed with a little Indiana Jones. :}

Oh, the reason why I'm not doing C is because none of my pics have 1) a guy, 2) architecture, 3) scale. So this is more of a lesson to me too. ;}

Itchi: Thank you very much. ;} Yes, 'A' is the way to go. ;}

Alen: thank you. :}

Patrick: wow. what a compliment. ;} and yes... unfortunately my job situation is the same. Legend's studio head loved me, and they were in the process of the series of interviews when the attack happened. They said (since they weren't officially hiring anyway) that new hires were a little on the back burner now, but when they do hire, they still want me. ...not sure how much of a line that was, but I do believe them.

I'm trying for Mythic and Bethesda. I don't know how best to approach them, but I do hope whatever I do will wow them. I'm also aiming my sites for local graphics firms, thought the economy isn't very user friendly right now... Thank you for all your help tho, Patrick. ;} Very kind of you. Oddly enough, I do have a smattering of people asking me for commissions. But no area job offers, unfortunately...

Everyone: Is anyone out there that wants to hire a gal for the DC metro area? I would love to hear from you. [email protected]

[Alen]

don't mention it
so how long have you been in the digi-art business?

[patrick]

Holy Crapola, Kat!! When you make an entrance you really make an entrance. I love the poses in the second sketch of the figures, and background A is Tits Up in my opinion. I love the dynamic feel to it.

Makes me sorry I never went to school for my art.

BTW how did the interview go, or should I start sending you more listings...

[Merekat]

Alen: heheh. ;} well, actually digitally speaking, I learned Photoshop in... geez... '98 I think it was.. the last year of my 5-yr college degree. At that time, it was one project briefly introduced in a Digital Illustration course. We learned that, Freehand and Quark (don't ask how that fits). College didn't so much teach me how to do what I do, but they taught me the one vital thing that plagues me on every new program: how does the program WANT you to think? Once I know the tools and where things are (a few days of study) then I'm fine with it. I can do a lot from there.

But I traditionally speaking, I've been drawing all my life; at least since 4 years old. I have memories of being upset that I was at preschool because that meant I had to leave my art supplies at home because I didn't trust the other kids to take proper care of them. ;} Guess it's in the genes, hunh?

What about you?

Oh, btw. Should -hopefully- have a sketch update on the new Jhenna soon. My weekend plans got cancelled, so it seems I have some free time... ;}

[Alen]

Well, I got into photoshop late 98/early 99 designing logos for web sites and stuff like that.
Then I ran into dhab's site in the summer of 99..
I read his tutorial, tried it, and totally sucked at first. I stuck to traditional sketching and shading for a while, then tried again. This time I did all right, but still not what I wanted. So I tried a 3rd time and got this.

As for history, I too held a pencil since I was about 3 or 4
And I still hold it, junior in high school.(still a newb)

[Merekat]

Hey, well done! ;} I very much like that picture you did of Tupac. In fact, I think that overthrows anything I ever did third try. ;} *giggle*

I hope you're going to college for fine arts. You really have something worth refining there.

*insert mumblings about young whipperschnappers blowing out of the water anything I did at their age here*

:}

[Alen]

thank you.
i'll try to do my best in the next few years, then get into a nice college, hopefully

hey, you created Jhenna, right?

[ October 15, 2001: Message edited by: Alen ]

[wus]

Buff Asian = Drago

Yes, it's "dragon" without the "n". Too predictable? I kinda like it.

What's your model's name? Maybe give him some kudos for being so buff.

Can't wait to see the finished work. The one of Jhenna is awesome!

[immi]

Hi merekat

I highlighted your work on cgchannel (www.cgchannel.com). It might help with your job situation.

[Man With No Name]

Wow kat,
You continue to amaze.

Personally, A is my fav. followed sharply by C. (I think I like A better just because you fleshed out the detail more....)

water again? no fret, just promise to post a tutorial of your water technique on your website. PLEASE!

The Asian male... Shirow (referenced to the greatest damn artist currently alive on the planet, of course.) Or... Min (referenced to one of the nicest korean architecture students I've ever known (wherever you are Min... Here's too ya! (slugs back a labatts)).

Don't feel bad about our fellow sijun member's age. You're younger than me, (and vastly better) which invokes two things...
1. Extreme jealousy. (damn you!)
2. Unlimited inspiration (I must reach your level! Oh, and I WILL! MWHUH HUH HAH.)

Thanks for posting your sketches, neat idea!

[Merekat]

Wow, this is still getting responses? I'm flattered! Thank you!

wus: actually, my models' nick is WingZero. I wanted to use the Wing part, but we're negotiating. If nothing else he helped me with the first name: Shou (pronounced "show). It's japanese for 'rising'. that matches his character pretty well, as he's trying to make a unique name for himself while coming from a LONG line of military explorers.

Immi: IT WAS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU! ;} *superhuggles!* I got bombed by responses. Only one talking to me about jobs, and unfortunately not in the DC area, but when one gets fan emails from Valve, Bioware and LucasFilms, it REALLY makes a girl's day, ya know? Now if only I could get them to make me an offer... ;} THANK YOU, Immi. From the bottom of my meerkatty heart. ;}

Man with no name: hmmm... not bad names. :} I'll have to think on that Min one. ;} Min Shou... ;} *gasps* oh nononononono... nevermind. in western culture it'd be Shou Min. "showman" Oh, boy. ;} hehehehe. thanks anyway. Yes, I'm going with 'A'. ;} just need the time to sketch it. I'll do it soon! Promise! ;}

Thanks everyone. I mean that. ;} It's nice to hear such wonderful comments.

[Merekat]

*ahem* excuse me... *bump!*

there. terribly sorry about that. updating the first post doesn't exactly put it on the first page... ;}

[frostfyre]

Sweet! I really like what you've done with the columns and the composition.

Not sure about exactly what to do about the perspective, but I noticed that when you flip the image on the horizontal axis, it really makes the depth cues come to life! It may also help you to spot perspective oddities. When I'm in photoshop, I'll often flip back and forth, to make sure that I didn't break perspective somewhere.

I look forward to the updates!

[patrick]

I think the characters are now somewhat lost in the business of the background, maybe bring them forward more???

Maybe a more exxagerated camera angle would fix the stair problem?

[Man With No Name]

wow, absolutely awesome architecture. Reminds me of a hybrid Gaudi/Calatrava type style. cool stuff.

Staircase...
Keep in mind that you should see the tops (or Runners) of the steps that fall below your horizon line. I don't see them in the rough, although maybe you planned on adding them later. Also the rail.... looks a little too thick near the bottom, where it begins to curve up. Thinning it out might help a little, but keep in mind, such strange architecture will look a little odd in perspective.

His leg... I actually prefer the crouching version myself. Although, as you pointed out, it would be more likely that he would only have one leg up in this type of situation. His body expression still comes off strong either way. I'm sure the gun will be no problem for you, (you nailed savannah's after all.)

Artistically, my only gripe would be that the main characters have become so small in the actuall picture...

Architecturally, I want to visit this place and bask in all its design glory .

Looks damn good so far....

[Man With No Name]

Whoa,

Hey, there, just noticed one more thing about the stair case.
you have a curving staircase, which means... the actual treads would be narrower at the end farther away from you and wider at the end nearest you. (think of a spiral stair case, that's what I'm trying to say, only in extreme form.) Now, in a three point perspective, like you have, if a stair was truly curving, the actual stairs wouldn't follow the same perspective lines as the rest of your building. They would actually be radiating out from a central axis located somewhere inside the curve of the stair. This can get REALLY complicated. You'd have to first pick the vertical axis (which would be the same perspective as your vertical lines.) Then as a guide, you'd evenly space guide marks on the axis, representing different heights of the treads. each of these guide points would in turn become the vanishing points for their respective treads. In addition to all this, you would still have to keep in mind that the treads lower than the horizon line would be visible.

Uggh. If you don't understand what I've just spewed forth, I could try to whip up a quick reference drawing to help illustate what I'm trying to convey... Not now though, it's 1:13 in the morning and I'm damn tired. But I'll check back tommorrow to see if you've seen this. (or figured it out for yourself for that matter, after all, you did post this four days ago. cripes, I'm rambling on and on...

Good night.

[Man With No Name]

Hey there,

Slept on it...

Took a couple of whacks at it this morning...

Here's my attempt..

www.angelfire.com/mi2/manwithnoname/stair.html

Some things to note:
the upper stairs (above the horizon line) use the Vanishing point on the right. while the lower stairs use the one on the left.

It still looks a little odd, but the perspective in my example is a little forced.
Hopefully it will look better in your drawing.

Well, I hope I've helped. Good luck with the painting process. It looks like A LOT of work.

[Merekat]

Man with no name:
THANK you for your efforts! It might not be exactly what I was looking for, but golly gee, it sure explains a lot of theories that had been eluding me! I didn't even think of that guide for the spacing. Beautiful! Thank you for all your efforts in this! I'm starting to color it this week and I'll post updates when I can. ;}

Thank you so much!

(incidently, ever see the movie "my name is nobody?" it's a spaghetti western dubbed in english that is truly cool. If you can handle old films. ;} go see!)

[Man With No Name]

Heh,

Never saw that movie in particular, but my moniker was actually in tribute to all the old Clint Eastwood Spaghetti Westerns (Fist full of Dollars, A few dollars more, The good, the bad and the ugly.) His charater's name in all of the credits was "Man With No Name." I loved those movies. I'll have to check out the you're talking about, if I can find it.... Thanks!