[MD-02-Geist]

Hi all... after a long time this is my first post. I was working a bit with 3dsmax and this is my first high res model. What do you think. Could i add more detail or just add the skin right now... and what do u think of the model itself.

Thx for every critique.

[MD-02-Geist]

Thx for deleting the double post

[Ben Barker]

It looks fine. I don't know what really to crit specifically except to tell you to keep modeling.

With every model try to make it more detailed, more realistic, and more flexible. By flexible I mean able to be dropped into any scene and animated, looking good from the back as well as the front, solid UVW mapping, and some form of resolution independance. You shouldn't have to compromise on your pre-planned camera angle, because the mapping on the character's back is wigged out.
Take your time. Experience is really the best teacher in modeling, and keeping these things in mind will make you better. Finding the right balance between texture/geometry, making your models easy to bone/animate, making them optimized for rendering speed, all of these balancing skills become refined only with the experience of trial and error.

On your next model, I would concentrate more on the joints and mechanics. Try to convince me that this thing is real, that I could pull it off a rack, strap it on piece by piece, lock in my sidearm, and be a real badass on the battlefield. Instead of just letting two pieces of geometry intersect, try to think about how a combat suit's pieces would interface, then model that. A soldier needs flexibility and protection. Don't try to cover up trouble areas with broad pieces of armor. They might be hard, and they will be a real challenge, but those mechanical areas can become the coolest part of a model if you put the time and tears into it.

Try to give your characters real mass. Paul Steed said once "they should look like they can really be knocked around, and knock other stuff around." I think that puts it best. The best male/warrior character models command a powerful presence. Look at Thrall's arms, at his pose, how he hangs the massive weight of his frame and his axe from his arched collar bone. You could trace where his body is under the armor. The armor doesn't define his silouette, he's wearing it like clothing over a powerful form. But the armor isn't transparent, the form is implied by the skill of the artist. The body has motion even in a still rendering. The image looks like a slice of the character's life in time, not like he was a manequin, propped up and posed for a portrait.

Texture maps and models compliment each other. When modeling, you should already know what the finished character will look like, somewhat. What details will require geometry, to set off those edge highlights just right? How powerful is bump mapping? Powerful enough to pull of those rivets convincingly? Is this suit standard military issue, or has this marine been in the trenches so long, it's an eclectic, retrofitted hodgepodge of spare parts from the battlefield?

If you're used to game modeling, high poly modeling makes it seem like anything goes. Your only limit is how much time and RAM you have to spare. Learn what your limits are and push them. Even at your best, you won't be using your at home PC to pump out models like Thrall. Even if you did have the patience to edit it, your computer will simply choke and die at some point. But never make your lack of resources an excuse. Good modelers compromise, and work around their tools in creative ways to construct their ideas. They try not to let their tools' limitations distort their vision.

Keep these things in mind. Really watch other people's stuff with a new perspective. Then practice, and you will be awesome.

[Gandalf]

Feel flattered, because I registered here just to ask you some things about that model.

#1: What technique? Mesh/box medelling? patch? NURBs?

#2: If it's mesh, did you just model each part separetly then attach them all at the end? Does that lead to problems when posing/animating characters? I thought you always had to weld vertices, so it's much easier if you just build it out of one shape from the start?

Thanks. I know this isn't a help forum, but I'm workin on something really close to this at the moment and I could use the info.

Thanks. Can't wait to see that thing textured.

[mk]

Hi...

MD-02-Geist:
If you really wanna make "High Poly" Objects you must add more details. You should not care about how many Polygons you have but i should care about the details.
Model the Gun again. Add all the stuff it needs. Add the trigger, add a belt, add all the stuff you have seen on guns. Go to your next store and buy some weapon magazines.
Until it looks realistic. Splintered colors and so on...
just train around with the gun. (it is simple because it has many simple Shapes)
Maybe some things you dont have to model because you can add some more details with bump and color maps, but it will take some time to learn where you can fake.

Gandalf:
1: well, your choise. If you like to work on a poly-by-poly base, then do it so. If you like splines, work with splines.

2: how you wanna build an man in a SCI-FI Battle Armor? You build the man in a single Shape (maybe in some parts, but the finished object is an single mesh(not allways!))
The battle Armor is mechanic so you build it in "logical" Parts. ->means: p1=shoe, p2=under leg portectors, p3=upper leg protector and so on.
Single meshes for organic things animated by bones. Parts for mechanical objects animated by standart Kinematics.
However this is not a rule... its just an Tip.
The more you model and animate the more you learn.

I hope it helps a bit. If not, ask!

MK

[Gandalf]

Haven't worked with bones much.
I've tried animating somethign when I've got two pieces, (ie. i just mirrored it and atached it, yet didn't weld yet) then It can split sometimes when using bipeds.

So IK + bones is different from that? like, If I have an arm composed of two spheres and a cylinder (hand, shoulder = spheres, cylinder = arm) nad I set that up with bones, it will animate alright? as long as everything's attached?

[mk]

Try it out Dont ask...just do it... i mean just try it out
If you animate with bones the object dont have to be obligatory one piece...but check it out yourself.

After a couple of years in 3D i still "test" out some stuff... just to look if it works or not... i this way i learned many things...

MK

[Ben Barker]

Gandalf:
Rigging up a single mesh is just like rigging up individual segments. Except instead of linking the individual, jointed segments to the bones or biped, you link the individual vertices of the single mesh. Most people use character studio, where it's possible to just make the skeletong (biped), and the vertices are linked automatically.
Also, the Physique modifier makes it possible to link a vertex to multiple bones, with different levels of influence for each bone. For the Character Studio deprived, you can also do the same thing with the "Linked Xform" modifier by selecting vertices with soft selection, linking them to a dummy, then linking the dummy to a skeleton.
Properly rigging up a model takes time. But if you plan on doing a lot of animation, you save yourself time in the long run.

[MD-02-Geist]

Thx alot for your comments ... i will practise alot and will start some more models ... i hope that will help me getting better

[S4Sb]

Sieht nicht schlecht aus. Mich w�rde auch interessieren wie Du den gemacht hast? Sieht aus wie ein Haufen gedehnte und gebogene Standartk�rper. Bin ich da richtig? Auf jeden fall bist Du auf dem richtigen Weg.
hast Du Dich schon entschieden ob Du nun weiter 2d oder 3d machen willst?

[MD-02-Geist]

Ja das ist leider so ... bisher hab ich noch nicht die Techniken (hab erst vorgestern mit den tutorials in 3dsmax angefangen). Das ist sozusagen mein erstes richtiges Model. Bisher hab ich nur ein paar Low-Poly Waffenmodels f�r Mods gemacht. Aber ich sehe, das ich dabei nicht mehr vom Fleck komme ... es is immer das selbe. Jetzt hab ich mal was neues angefangen. Vielleicht wars etwas zu gross gleich so einen Spacemarine zu machen, aber ich geb nicht auf. Ich hab schon wieder einen neuen angefangen (jetzt hat die Hand schon halb so viel Polygone als der gesamte vorherige Marine )und hoffe ihn diesmal besser zu machen.

Und ja ich hab mich entschieden. Ich werd mich wohl auf 3D spezialisieren ... 2D werden wirklich in n�chster Zeit nur grobe skizzen und Texturen sein. Ich hab ja Kunst LK, da komm ich genug zu meiner 2D ausbildung

Jep unluckily its like that... i dont have the technique so far (i started the max tutorials only 2 days ago). Thats my first real model. So far i just did some low-poly weapon models for a mod. But i c that i dont make any more progress with it... its always the same. Thats why i started sth else. Maybe it was a bit to large-scaled to start with a spacemarine, but i wont give up. I just started a new one (now just the hand has half the polys that the whole old marine ) i hope to make him better this time.

And yeah i made my decision. I think i will specialise on 3D... 2D will only be rough sketches and textures. I have Art as main subject at school so i think ill get enough 3D work to do

Yeah a multilangual text (seems i have to much time, huh ... oh shit i could have used that time to study max a bit more)

Oh S4Sb, das is jetzt nur an dich. Kennst du zuf�llig ein Buch f�r Max3 oder 4, das auf Deutsch alles gut erkl�rt (aber sich auf das engl. Programm bezieht - gibts �berhaupt ein deutsches 3dmax4??????)

[Gandalf]

I've got character studio, and I was talking about Bipeds before, but when I simply attach two parts of a mesh together, without welding them, and attach a biped to them, it can spit ect. mk was saying that IK Bones will get rid of that problem.

I don't need super animation with my character, but I want to be able to pose him for different things. I figured this was the only way...it is isn't it?

[Vgta]

Actually yeah it is, if you want to just pose your characters just add bones, however remember that there is a hierachy (parent to child) when setting up bones.
I believe www.3dcafe.com and www.3dluvr.com have some tutorials on this.

[mk]

Geist:

was immer gut kommt um Proportionen einzuhalten usw.
Mach dir n ne Figur (so wie die Holzpuppen) und spezielle Sachen kannst Du da auch schon dran moedellen. Diese Figur bleibt dann im Hintergrund und Du beginnst mit dem eigentlichen modellieren. Die Figur kann ganz eckig bleiben, sie muss auch nach nix aussehn. Eigentlich ist sie nur eine 3D Skizze, die dir etwas hilft. Am besten machst Du auch die immer wieder neu... somit trainierst Du automatisch deine 3D Skills.
Das benutze ich inzwischen fuer alles. Auch haeuser sind bei mir "vorskizziert". An diesen Low End Modellen bereite ich auch die Szene vor (Beleuchtung usw).
Was S4 ueber die gestreckten Standartobjekte meint stimmt. Der Marine erweckt den eindruck als sei er nur aus Kugeln zusammen gestellt. Kannst ja versuchen die Form zu uebernehmen und den Brustkorb als ein einziges Teil zu bauen.
Was anderes... Researching ist sehr wichtig. zB. Waffen, es gibt tausende Links zu irgendwelchen Waffengeschaeften die Bilder von Knarren haben. Aus diesen einzelteilen kannst Du dir neue, hochdetailierte Waffen zusammen modellieren. Auch was den Koerperpanzer angeht. Schau dir Magas an, Panzerbilder, irgendwelche Bilder von technischen Sachen (Roboterarm, U-Boot, Dampflokomotive usw usw), all das kann die nur unterstuetzen und vielleicht fallen dir so Details ein an die Du gar nie gedacht hast.

MK

[smalls]

goodness.. lots of good info, eh? i was wondering if any one knows of good modeling tutorials or could help me... especially with using pictures i drew to model things..if anyone can help.. i would appreciate it a lot.. thanx

smalls

[Ben Barker]

I read tons of tutorials on modeling before I realized I just had to do it to learn. I spent months looking for and reading "how to model the human head" tutorials and got nowhere. The best way is to open up some of the example files that come with 3D Studio (or your program), and disect them. Then try to copy them. Even though people are probably tired of hearing it, it's all about practice.

[Impaler]

Ben Barker-- Heh. My internet censor blocks your site with the warning of pornography. Hilarity to the nth degree.