[Tendril]

ok, im pretty new here so u dont have to listen to me, but u can if u want, i just got thinking and decided to express my opinion in the form of this rant...

Ok, everyone is always arguing about whether photomanipulation is art, or whether overpaints are art or whether any other number of things are art. But to me this just seems really pointles since no-one really knows what art is, or they think they do but their definition is different to everybody elses. ie is it entertainment? does it make u think? is it aesthetically pleasing?

Thousands of years ago when the word was invented it was probably just used to describe painting. Then someone started making sculptures and they decided to call that art too, and its grown to this thing where any person can argue that anything they do is art. It is seriously becoming rediculous, people are doing really stupid things cos they think they are artists (rolling round on canvases, pissing all over the place, killing animals etc...), and everyone is always arguing about whether this or that is art...

******point of rant************
What i propose is we just get rid of the word. its the word that everyone is arguing about. U just have to think about things differently->>> Some people can paint realistically, some ppl draw drawings that are cool, some make u think, some people like to arange photos and stuff so it looks nice but it really wasnt that hard to do, others just look like shit, some people like to paint a photo so it looks the same but sort of not and it really wasnt worth the effort, some people like to piss all over a canvas and other people pay money for it.
*******************************

It just puts everything back into perspective...

there... i hope u can understand what im trying to say, i understand me...

[Ian]

no

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[Ian]

for the last time.

ART IS WORKING ON SOMETHING UNTIL YOU LIKE IT, THEN LEAVING IT THAT WAY.

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[Tendril]

agghhh! ure missing the point!!
lots of other ppl think it means lots of other things, but ppl will try and argue with you using their own definition

[Ian]

No, I understand you perfectly and my answer is no. We shouldn't stop using the word 'art' that's just stupid.

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[Tendril]

yeh, ok, i realise its not going to happen.

But what i find stupid is all the arguing that goes on, not just in this forum but all over the world. Its been going on for years and it will continue to go on. Its just when u think about it its really an argument about nothing...

[Ian]

don't lets argue then.

*huggles*

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[DrBof]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian:

ART IS WORKING ON SOMETHING UNTIL YOU LIKE IT, THEN LEAVING IT THAT WAY.

---

sorry to drag this on (im bad ) but dada (a art movement during ww2) rejected the idea that you have to like something in fact some did the oposite they worked on somthing so that they did not like it...*sigh*

sorry...again


[This message has been edited by DrBof (edited April 03, 2001).]

[Ian]

Okay. Here's what I think, why bother puting so much effort into something if it doesn't give you pleasure or joy? Unless of course your doing it for money or work. But I think something that too many people forget is that art in it's esscense is about having FUN! We enjoy sketching cool silly funny beautiful things don't we? We do it to relax, because we enjoy it! Now why would you want to work on something that you really hated? That would be detrimental to the product. I really don't enjoy working on pieces that I don't like. However, practising and such [ie. life drawing, blind contour, sketching, gesture drawing] is often very hard work that you most times really don't like. BUT, I always end feeling good because I know that with every line I scratch onto paper and etch on my wacom, I get better. Therein lies the happiness. Working on a piece of art that you don't like just seems illogical. The art movement you speak of sounds interesting but I would be interested in knowing how long that 'movement' lasted.

Cheers, Ian.

edit:Me hafe gyud gramur.

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[This message has been edited by Ian (edited April 03, 2001).]

[DrBof]

i think it was about 2-4 years they gave it a funeral and everything...it was mostly about being anti-establishment and gaining pleasure in not the art it's self but the knolage that everyone else was just getting confused and offended by there antiks it spawned such people as Max Urnst

more info on dada

sorry if i got any of my facts wrong (i fall asleep in most art history lessons (@ home(in my bed)))

[Ian]

s'ok you presented an interesting argument.

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[Totally]

art is whatever you consider art to be. One person's art is another person's trash, one person's trash is another person's masterpiece...

I for one refuse to use a grid or overpaint... does that mean that I don't consider people who use these techniques artists? Not really... Some very well known photorealistic painters of the 20th century used grids and painted from a photo onto a huge canvas.

BTW, tendril: What people call the "first art" are the cave paintings. It is believed, however, that these paintings did not serve the purpose of being "artistic", but instead used in some sort of ritual. Perhaps they believed that painting these animals would bring more game to the area. Sculpture making has also been around since ancient times, and was also ritualistic before it was artistic. These things were not meant to be art, cave paintings weren't even really meant to be seen by anybody (that's why they're buried deep within caves). Yet we call these things art today.

------------------
---
Dave Myers http://members.home.com/totally

[Frost]

Art is a fucking useless and meaningless term.

[jcterminal]

art is anything that doesn't directly contribute to the survival of a species.

(then again, survival can be an art.)

------------------
j.c.terminal
mind
body
soul

[Bradford]

arguing about art is like arguing about religion; it never goes anywhere and people just end up hating each other in the end.

------------------
[email protected]
icq:3704871

[PandaX52]

"art is the salvation of humankind"


the key to our future is the coordination of logical reasoning and abstract thought in our society. The two halves of our brain working efficiently and harmoniously together...

"the gateway to the future is through corpus callosum"...read "Dragons of Eden" by Carl Sagan and you'll know what I'm talking about...the corpus callosum is the tissue that connects the two halves of the brain together and allows signals to be sent from each side to the other.

Logical reasoning, when used to create technology, govern large numbers of people, or scientific research, has a way of dehumanizing life, yet is very usefull for organization and making systems more efficient.

Art and abstraction are the opposite of logical reasoning, and is good for improving the quality of life and human-ness of people.

I'm not stroking my ego here, like it is so easy to do on these forums and I think I've generalized a bit, but you kind of get the idea.

basically,

RIGHT SIDE=Non-verbal,Art,Abstraction,and Human-ness,more primitive?

LEFT SIDE=Language,Logical Reasoning,and Organization, yet dehumanzing when used to control groups of people.

Also read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig...the whole book talks about this stuff...



[This message has been edited by PandaX52 (edited April 03, 2001).]

[Ian]

here's a funny thing.

I don't care either.

art is quite an easy term to throw around but not very helpfull. The escense of the word 'art' means something that one is 'artful' at. They are 'artisans' they have taken their skill to an 'artistic' level because they are so good at it. Anyways. I refuse to type more in this thread. Arguing about art is a poopie idea and it's late.

------------------
To thine own self be true.

[edible snowman]

four things:
1. it doesn't matter
2. it wont change, so it still doesnt matter
3. just because people argue over words doesn't mean you get rid of them.
4. if you're trying to sound like you're making a well thought out point, at least try to spell things correctly.

[[Shizo]]

edible snowman's thing #1 is also a principle of all live in universe! ABAAYHAHAHAHAhA

------------------
nothing really matters

[travis travis]

interesting points. none of you has a universal answer. but what's wrong with making interesting points? they're interesting.

I'm going to go chase art down the street and pin a tail on it.

[PandaX52]

Let's all wallow in our intellectual egos in an act of synchronized weirdness...ready.....GO! we'll find the answer there.


*wallow*

[Jabberwocky]

If we get rid of the word art what would i call my 3 hour class? "the class formally known as art"... no better yet lets give it a symbol nobody knows what to call it then they can't argue about it....

------------------
Hell doesn't scare me...
I scare Hell!

[Giant Hamster]

ART:

Being payed for art: Lots of "artists" Take this as a free passage to easy living. They make crap and charge big bucks for it.
Its imposible to figure out which artists are actually creating the good art or the bad art.

WHY?:
take a piece of paper, and stick bubblegum onto it.

Bolth pieces may look the same...

...But a good artist, would have put his feelings into it, arranged the gum to his liking and tended to it making sure it was just right.

A Bad artist would have just done it because I said so.

------------------
-JameZ the Giant Hamster-

The Hamster Alliance
AIM: Gianthmstr
Multimedia Producer/designer/all of the above.,overall guru :)...and music music music! weee!!

[DrBof]

yadda yadda yadda :: go post somming different :: theres a interesting narcotics thread going *plug plug plug*

(maybe i will sway some of these people into talking some different shpeel for a while) :: oh did i say that out load

:: opps more vodca me thinks ::

[[Shizo]]

go away you pothead bum :p he8eHHEEHEHHEhe

[Nex]

I agree with Frost.

Art was and is an utterly meaningless term.