[Sanga]

This is related to a subject that is posted in the digital art board, but I felt it wouldn't be proper to answer it there. I thought long and hard over if I should post my picture in the "What do you all look like?" post, but I finally got up the courage and posted it, I then went to work. Just so you all know, I work as an exotic dancer, I have done this for three years,it more than pays bills and I have plenty of time to draw and paint. The one thing I want to make clear is I am not a WHORE or a HOOKER!! I live alone with my cat and I do not date because guys always think because of what I do that I am easy. Anyway back to the subject, when I got off work, I walk out of the club and right into a shit storm, there was a chruch group protesting in front of the club and suddenly I was the target. I was trying to get to my car, but they gathered around me and yelling at me that I was a whore and going to burn in hell. After about five minutes of this the boncer saw what was happening and got them away from me. I was shaking and crying the whole way home. That ended my night on a bad note, so I get up this morning and start reading these boards, and what do see? A very rude and vile comment from mongoose, the kind of comments I here at work all day long. And yes it does hurt. Sorry if this went on to long, but I had to say what I felt.

Sanga

[[Shizo]]

are you religious? i would care less what church peeps say, they're all too fake for me hehe

tell them they're sinning by making a protest threatening you and they'll shudup

/////////////////////////////////////////////
rleigious exotic dancer.. religious president.. ha!

[kurisu]

Here are my thoughts...
Sorry you experienced that Sanga. I can imagine how awful that must have felt :( Too many people fear what they do not understand and judge a book by its cover.
As an ignorant guy, I used to think that 'being hit on all the time' would just be the cat's meow - and couldn't understand why women didn't like it. Now, after all the stories I've heard, I think I have a vicarious understanding of how uncomfortable and tiresome it can be. "Pay attention to who I am why don't you!"...
As far as comments, I think Mongoose was just not thinking, and it, unfortunately, hit you where it hurt. I'm sure he didn't really mean it :) I think he, and others who've read this and the other post, will think twice next time...
As far as 'blasphemy' and all that... I think it's unfortunate that people (me included) tend to fear what they don't understand. My view of exotic dancing is fairly simple. I don't think it's a bad thing at all - I think what's bad is when someone subscribes to it who is with someone who it hurts (whether they know about it or not). That's for those two people to work out for themselves - not blame on the dancers or the club. Sort of like blaming trenchcoats instead of those wearing them.
I, and don't laugh, saw a program on HBO with interviews with dancers - both beginners and very experienced ones. The money can be tremendous, but the emotional costs quite possibly more. I wish you luck with both aspects.
Being judged on your looks is something we cannot avoid. That as a job must be very stressful. I hope you find a person someday who can help make you feel appreciated even when the looks change, and help make experiences like what you've had fall by the wayside.
I knew a girl who was part of a world completely different from my white-boy-bubble world. She was a big proponent of women's rights and really tried to support oppressed woman. She opened up my eyes to a lot of things about how media and our culture feed into things that isolate women (like by displaying only 1 body type - as opposed to the many that exist). If she were here, I'm sure she'd give you a lot of encouragement and support. So, just imagine...

Happiness, health and wealth to one and all!

-k

[imdaking]

Religon strikes again, if it isn't war its calling people unholy accusing them of "sins" and the like, ohhhhhhh your making money dancing, maybe with your clothes off, so what, your making money.

I'll admit, when I saw your pic, I said, Wow! Shes hot! But I didn't say, lemme get some putang, Now I know why many a girl I know just sits down and sighs, then yells I HATE GUYS, mongoose is a prime example, no offense.... but really... Makes me sad, All these girls go out with the pot heads and the smokers and the ones who get shit faced but then I'm the one that they come and talk to because I'm nice, I'm sweet, I'm cute, WTF? Oh well, guess I'll just be a bachelor forever. I hope you feel better Sanga, Latez,
King.

[This message has been edited by imdaking (edited March 18, 2000).]

[jasonN]

Hey Sanga, I just wanted to say that I never knew you were a girl until I saw your pic. It was weird because I thought you were a guy, I guess because about 90% of the ppl on here are guys.

Well, I'm sorry that those things happened to you. I hate it when I am misunderstood or people just pass you off as 'just another person'. I hate it when people underestimate others, but I guess no matter how annoying it is, people are always going to be stuck in their own little world. Our self involved brains make it hard for us to hold objective view points, understand and see the 'other side' of the story. Well, this is not true for everyone, but I'm just saying that there are a lot of people like that in the world and all we should do is just forget it and try to be the best person we can be.

Just my thoughts and ramblings, I don't claim to know a lot about the world, besides, I'm 16. But one thing I can sure relate to is what imdaking said. "Nice guys finish last"

*SIGH* it's so true...

Anyways, I'm sorry that those things happened to you and I hope that your days brighten up in no time!

-Jason

[Nick Slusarczyk]

Hey if it'll make you feel better, I can drive down during the middle of the night, drag him out of bed, throw him in the trunk, than go down to a parking lot with lots of speed bumps and go as fast as possible over them while poor ol' mongoose will be stuck in that trunk with time to think about what he said and how he's gonna apoligise ot you

I really can't understand why some people cna be such pricks! And these so called church groups? How can they call them selves religious? They surround someone and call them a whore and say they'll go to hell? I dont think they've read the bible! God doesn't condemn people for making a living! The only people that desrve to go to hell would be those damn church protesters for they're false acusations!

It also really bothers me how so many guys act like such assholes! Whenever I see or hear that kind of crap I just feel like knocking the guys teeth out...

Well anyways Sanga I hope you cheer up soon!




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Motocross Online

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah, people always hate me because I'm so handsome too...

j/k


I like the post at Dzabih's front page
"Lifes too serious to be taken seriously"


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Scoobydoobydooooooo!

[faustgfx]

the first part of my life was relatively easy, what with me being happily unaware of things such as sexuality, relationships or anything related to them.

but in the last few years, there hasn't been a single day when i have not been ashamed of being a male, in a way or another, and not being envious of the other sex.

it shows especially well in my school, which is dominated by trend slaves, whiggers and stereotypical high school airheads.

i, personally, would like to strangle and maim every male in the world who does not follow certain rules of romanticism, chivalrousity, show no respect or admiration towards the other sex, and so forth.

sadly, there's not much a single kid can do about it. it bugs me every day at school, at downtown, where-ever i go, it's always hearable in the peoples' talk.. i dare to say 90% of the kids from, say, 12 to 18, consider a woman to be nothing but an sex object.

actual example, heard a 16 old kid say this. "uh.. .yeah, she's pretty and all that crap, f**ks well, but.. uh... yeah, i think she's kind of cool." someone asked him, "god damnit do you realize you have a gorgeous, intelligent, smart, fun, friendly, kind (plus numerous other good points) girlfriend and all you think of her is that she's good in the bed?" the first kid goes "eh.. now what the hell would i want of a girl, other than sex???"

seriously. if someone has a simple solution to this, i'd be happy to hear it, so i could make the world a bit better place. sure, i'm not exactly known for my positive and good-willing tendencies, but this is something i can't stand. just how hard is it to get some respect and sense to the kids' heads?!?@#%^!@

many have been the girls i've talked with who are hurt by this, and many are the guys who think it is something of an great achievement and whatnot to hurt a girl.

the only way i can figure out to correct this would be an world wide genocide. sorry, but that's the way it is.

day by day i'm more ashamed of being a male. and on top of all, since most of other kids are ignorant and cruel like that, i get labeled as the same type... yet what can i do about that? zero. somebody do something about this. beat up every guy who does this stuff, if that's what it takes.. i don't care. just do it. :|

end rant.



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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[Nick Slusarczyk]

Faustgfx I feel the exact same way!!

It really annoys me how low the male race has sunken! I am very ashamed of most of these sex craving lunatics who don't care for women, but just want some pussy!

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Motocross Online

[jasonN]

Hey faust. I know what you mean. Although I myself am 16, I definetely hate it when guys in my grade talk like that and I'm not like that at all.

And I agree that we are mostly assholes, but don't feel too bad that males are bad because females are pretty viscous also (not all but some)

They can be bitchy, manipulative, play games with you and lead you on. Sometimes the scars left by them can be worse than anything...

I hope this doesn't start up a flame war between males and females, remember, I said 'some' NOT 'all' females are like that.

-Jason

[faustgfx]

always such a ..unique feeling of getting sentimentally and emotionally highly spontaneously butchered.

today's another day in school, another day listening to that bullshit from the ignorant arrogant kiddos. *sigh*




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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[nicole]

So where have you guys been all my life?

I think I'm a bit more tolerant of such things because I've had almost all guy friends all my life, and have heard derogatory things about women almost constantly. It upsets me that I accept some of the things I hear and see every day. A lot of them I don't think twice about, and unfortunately sometimes I even laugh about some. It's a bit easier when someone puts it down in text for you to stare at though, which is why I kind of expressed my distaste at Moongoose's reply to Sanga's picture. I can joke just as much as the next girl or guy, and I wouldn't say I've got a very clean sense of humor, but some things are just in bad taste.

It saddnes me that things like this are so accepted in the world, but it also makes me happy to see these posts and think maybe there's some hope after all... maybe.

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That which does not kill us makes us stranger.

[Spitfire]

King, hell that sounds familliar... it keeps striking me as funny how girls/women allways talk (to me or in general) about how guys are rude, stupid, insensitive, sex-crazed cavemen, and then their next boyfriend is just as bad as the previous one... and who's standing aside, alone, and shaking his head in disbelief?

Oh well... i guess it's evolutionary.

/Spitfire

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They're clawing at the sky,
they're gonna pull it down.
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[kurisu]

I just read what I wrote below. If you're not in the mood for a confessional/pep-talk, then skip this entry...

Please keep in mind that none of this is meant to 'lecture.' These are only my opinions from my experience. What I think works, or how I think things work may not have any bearing on your own reality...

There seems to be a common opinion voiced among the gentlemen within this thread.

My opinion about 'girls going for bad ones' brings up a larger issue: Why can't personA find and be happy with personB?

I think it's simple... "It happens when it happens." ...and... "You know when you know..."

The fact that you, me, we (whatever) have not gotten the person we've 'wanted' to just means (to me, anyway) that it just wasn't right.

That's it. Plain and simple.

My parents have a wonderful relationship. That's been a blessing and a curse for me. Great to grow up with it, hard to find it.

It can be very difficult to be patient. But, I've come to believe that life will lead me where it will - not the other way around. Not to write that I don't try and reach goals - just not to be so disappointed... because something always changes the mix or the 'plan.'

If there was/is a girl/guy who didn't/doesn't go for me or you - it's not right (at least at the moment). If you think you're supportive and nifty and all that - well, you probably are - and just be sure others don't take advantage of that! Sometimes, another person (as well as you) can fall unknowingly into a pattern of 'taking.' This can become very destructive. But, it's just another sign that the relationship isn't right anyway. It shouldn't be so hard...

My belief about (at least most) people who go after 'the mean/bad/disrespectful/shallow/etc ones' is this:

If someone doesn't believe they are worth much, they are not going to pursue someone they believe is worth more than themselves.

And if I were to pursue a person like that - they would actually lose respect for me and my value in their eyes would go down accordingly - all because they don't believe in themselves.

Regardless about the 'other' person, I think each person is special. Not in a retarded sense, but in a very real sense. Everyone has a gift. Some people can see it, while others cannot. It's up to each of us, I think, to find the 'right' people for us - the ones who can appreciate us for who and what we are.

Something to think about, anyway...

-k

[Spitfire]

Maybe it's not right to have a relationship with me

Now that's evolutionary...

/Spitfire

[jasonN]

"If someone doesn't believe they are worth much, they are not going to pursue someone they believe is worth more than themselves."

Wonderful, brilliant, the best quote I've heard in a while.

"It can be very difficult to be patient."

That's very true, maybe even an understatement because sometimes it's SO hard to be patient that the hope and belief that, "it happens when it happens" is sometimes destroyed or seriously dented.
It's so damn annoying because out of the 60 or so girls in my grade, I find myself *completely* emotionally unattracted to any of them.

Dammit I hate it so much. Why can't that perfect (or at least someone I might like) walk into my life? Sorry, I had a bad day, stupid frustration always gets to me...

-Jason

[Spitfire]

Jason... it could be worse...imagining living next to that "perfect one" for years and years without ever having a chance on a relationship...

/Spitfire



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They're clawing at the sky,
they're gonna pull it down.
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[faustgfx]

not to mention it could get even worse than that, the perfect one could date a ugly, boring, numb brained mannerless whigger kid.



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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[Spitfire]

Bah

[faustgfx]

"If someone doesn't believe they are worth much, they are not going to pursue someone they believe is worth more than themselves."

how does that work out after all? the only way that'd work is that person a was a egomaniac and egocentered i-own-you-all kind of person, and the person b that person a so desires, was in person a's eyes something much less, infidel, lower, lesser. this isn't exactly my idea of a ideal relationship, where person a regards person b as something much much lesser.

and i sure as hell don't understand why someone would "want" (hate the term..) someone else for the sake of this someone else being lesser, smaller, infidel. and if i ever find a person who regards a female as lesser and infidel... heads will roll.

also, unless you're an egomaniac egocentered i-own-you-all kind of person, you "should" (or rather, most likely) consider yourself as equal to others (was it intelligence, looks, or whatfrigginever). so if person a falls in love with person b, person a regards person b as something better, more, higher. therefore, person a in his/her own eyes, is lesser than person b, which breaks the "If someone doesn't believe they are worth much, they are not going to pursue someone they believe is worth more than themselves." argument.

karma or destiny won't bring you a companion, karma and destiny can only bring you emotions. company comes from effort. so, should one want another for another's lesser features (in lack of a better phrase), it'd be forced karma and made up destiny, no? things that should be based on natural emotions will go awry wrong when the emotion is faked, lied to oneself, forced.

yeah, in this point, someone feels a odd urge to point out that forced emotion can grow into pure emotion.. sorry, but that's more like an psychosis level obsession. in general, that its.

bl�h. just had to say this.

and don't consider this to be an attack of sorts against kurisu's words, regard it as random rambling, something that just crossed my mind.

not that i'd know anything about these things anyway.

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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[This message has been edited by faustgfx (edited March 22, 2000).]

[imdaking]

Girls suck!

I hate it.... I dunno, happiness is the one thing EVERYONE wants in life.... some girl thinks she'll be happy with one guy, and he is the biggest asshole ever to her, and she is blind to see all the good ones.

One more thing to throw out you guys....
Why in the hell do people go out just for the "status" I dunno if you have that where you live, but say, Girl A goes out with Guy A ... And it is nothing, they go out, because they "kinda... Like eachother, but not really, just so they can look popular?

What the hell......

[faustgfx]

then there's this little argument someone pointed out ages ago, which i personally don't exactly buy..

you love someone. you want this someone to yourself. you think it's just that. wrong.

it's actually about wanting only personal good to yourself. you want that someone because this someone brings "good" (to sum it all up) to you. you're using this someone for your personal enjoyment.

so, according to this, to love someone is just another name for egomaniac complexis?

but hey. girls are soft and warm and smell good and purr, i ain't complaining. plus i'm intoxicated.

the whole 'status' deal is about, as far as i've figured out, about mass culture, groups, even gangs among the kids. and with kids in teen angst and puberty (which itself is a certain state of insanity, mind you ) and sexual frustration and so forth, the ones without boy/girlfriend are considered lesser and lame and wuss and all that crap.

imagine a whigger kid mocking another whigger kid, "you've got zero man in you.. ain't even gotten laid yo" and the another whiggakid gets outcasted from the group, the semicommunity...

it's just something very very sad.

oh yeah. i'm not any fanatic feminist on one man's crusade to make the world a better place or anything. just a kid with his views and ways that he actually follows.

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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[This message has been edited by faustgfx (edited March 22, 2000).]

[kurisu]

Another preachy one. Just my opinions though...

I think everything everybody does is selfishly motivated.

What makes the difference to me is whether the person considers how their actions/words will affect others around them. Consideration. Intention.

There are those that don't care.

There are those that do.

Ultimately, even the ones who care are caring for some self-serving reason. This is not to say that any of this is a conscious process... like "ooo - how can I use this person to make myself feel better..." but rather on a subconscious level.

Our strongest instinct is to survive. We are programmed (by God or otherwise) this way. We then automatically and instinctively do whatever we need to do to survive.

If you don't believe this, why is there fear? There is fear because there is pain. And pain can lead to death, which is the opposite of all instincts. This is part of the programming that creates 'danger' for us.

On a more conscious level, I think we also try to do what we 'think' will make us happier. And this is where the 'selfish' part comes into play.

Being selfish is a conscious thing. Consideration and intention, to me anyway, make the difference between someone who is 'good' or is 'not-so-good.'

What about those who 'mean well' but they just screw things up - and actually do damage? Well, I think that's where perception comes in. The perception, feeling and instinct about how trustworthy and 'good' another is. This leads to judgement (about the action in question or about the overall person in question).

Blah, blah, blah. And more blah...

I think that someone who feels that they are, in essence, worthless will view any sort of attraction towards themselves as a negative reflection on the very person who's attracted to him/her. And this is basically like a blanket over the person's perception of EVERYTHING.

Everyone has 'walls' and inhibitions. I think those who've been hurt build more walls, more complicated defense mechanisms to try and prevent more pain. But, many times those defense mechanisms can become part of the problem.

Since everything we do is motivated by pain and pleasure (avoiding the first and seeking out the second), whenever we feel either we 'remember.' And not just consciously. We remember what is happening around us when it happens. We might remember a smell, or a sound, a color... and all of this weaving a web of memory, or a memory map that defines for each of us what feels 'good' and what feels 'bad.'

It can be very easy to subconsciously create memory maps that actually hurt us. An example might be:

Young Johnny's grandfather takes him to the circus. He's SO excited! ...Gets to see all the animals and clowns and eat popcorn. At the circus, everything is fun, exciting and new. A clown walks up to a smiling little Johnny and hands him a big, bright balloon and just as little Johnny takes hold of the balloon, it pops very loudly. Little Johnny gets so scared from this loud sound, that he doesn't want to be at the circus anymore. His experience is ruined� by a tiny balloon popping. Little Johnny didn't even go back to the circus and ended up hating clowns - not because they were clowns, but he associated 'clowns' with the loud 'pop' that scared him so much when he was so young.

This is an example of a memory map that, if Johnny were to realize what REALLY happened, he might overcome his fear of clowns - pretty easily... and go back to the circus and just kill that clown.

Just kidding.

So, those girls or guys who seem to go after abusive or loser-types... they probably have learned through their own memory maps, that they feel worthless and deserve what they get, and really cannot see through all the defensive walls constructed around them.

*phew*

What a load... I apologize if it makes no sense!

-k

[faustgfx]

i still stand for what i said about a being equal to x (*mass) yet b being above a in a's eyes, and turn this around and it's the egoism at it again.

*shrug*.
i'll leave this here.. i *could* rant about this until the board's server runs out of hd space, but it often doesn't take much to get me too hyper and snappy on this subject... so, silence shall endure in Las Eskimo.


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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[kurisu]

Why not post your thoughts, faustgfx?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear... I'm in agreement with what you've described as 'bad' and 'good' in a relationship... my examples illustrated 'bad' ones. Equality is the only way to have a healthy relationship for sure! Perhaps I didn't write my thoughts well enough to be understood. Ah well, hope this sheds some light on things!

This is a forum, so I don't think anybody'd mind if thoughts, rants or otherwise were posted! Silence doesn't help others learn more about anyone's perspective and I'm certainly interested to read what you have to write...

It might be nice to be exposed to more female perspectives as well, since equality, respect and relationships deal with everyone...

-k

PS: And I think the only solution to improving ignorant people's hurtful perspectives is to educate them. It is a parent's duty to teach their child how to respect themselves and those around them. But, I think anyone can try and help. The more the merrier... Positive is as positive does...

[This message has been edited by kurisu (edited March 23, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

Im not around anymore. This thread's making me depressed

/Spitfire

[kurisu]

Ah Spitfire, don't be bummed, look on the bright side... *heh*

-k

PS: That was sent to me, btw.

[Spitfire]

Heh... that's pretty cool :]

/Spitfire



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They're clawing at the sky,
they're gonna pull it down.
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[faustgfx]

because i'd soon get stuck to just repeating "women are better! women are better!" again and again and again.

well that, and i also have a tendency to start whining how my love is pretty much everything i have, and how i've lost it for good as well.

nobody could possibly care less, no?

..

fah. the thread's getting me down hardcore as well.



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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the owls damn sure aren't what they seem.

[Affected]

I, too, believe that our motives are usually selfish. I DO believe sometimes people are able to look past their own wants and needs and help others instead, but for the most time, we're selfish. An example: Why do people want to love and be loved? I think it's because they feel something's missing from their lives. A selfish motive. There's a big BUT here, though: I do believe that once in love, people can transcend their selfish motives, but to want love is by and large selfish. I don't see why that would be a bad thing, though, not all selfishness hurts others.

As for the 'I'm not worthy'-complex, I think it's possible, likely even that it happens a lot.. People don't want to get hurt and dissappointed, and when they feel someone they want is beyond their reach, that they're not good enough for this person, that this person could never want them, a lot of people won't risk it. A lot of people won't do anything about their feelings because they're so afraid they'll get turned down. And that's how it works.



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Affected

We do not have freedom. We have rules and oppression and where the oppression is less visible we believe to have found freedom.

http://affected.xs.mw