[Goldabar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddio:
I dont have have any comments,

but think of all the Uni parties you'll miss

---

Parties shmarties

I've already lost my Friday and Saturday nights for the past 3.5 years or so, I forget the meaning of the word party
(erm, part time job)

My 18th B'day party kicked ass though, had that a few weeks ago with my whole grade from school, out at a lake. It was good except it got crashed by redneck break dancers (I'm completely serious, flanell-wearing guys in Utes with spotlights big enough to contact extra-terrestrial life, break dancing in front of the camp fire to techno music. I wish I had a camcorder handy )

[gArGOyLe^]

Hey. When my father found out that my Free Highschool was over and that I was thinking about college he divorced my mom (and me ) and moved to a different country and took all his money with him cuz he was scared that he'd have to pay for my college.

Now I have 2 jobs, college and my interest in art/designing. I can drop college but I wont because I think its worth it. In a few minutes I gotta go to a class but I'll make my self go cuz I think its worth it.

If ur dad is supporting you through college then wow.. ur in luck.. Avail this opputunity. Classes are like only 4-5 hours a day. Homework maybe an hour or two a day. You'll be able to choose ur class schedules probably.. Its much better than Highschool. So.. Try it. You'll even have time to make more designs and stuff.

I suggest you try college. Good Luck

[Harlequin]

Goldabar,

Im kind of 3 years ahead of you... I graduated from Highschool, and was really fed up with school.. My parents always put in the back of my mind going to uni and getting a degree was the next step and most important..
I asked a ton of question, talked with friends, went through your same trauma.

I figured what the hell, I'll give college a try and see if it is for me...

I have been there for the past 3 years.. I really havent gained any supreme amount of knowledge.. But I have grown up a tremendous bit, and have matured more than I ever would have going into the work force. I developed the social skills that were most important.. But the one thing that I have gotten out of it... the thing that has made all the difference.. is I met my best friend..She is amazing... If she didnt have a boy friend, I would be it...I also have met a handful of other people... that are my closest friends.. Sure you can meet people anywhere.. but when you go off to College and live in a dorm community.. You get to know people.. and those friends you make become like a second family..Friends for life.... You see them all the time... Its something that you will never forget...

But, I have kind of hit a road block at college.. I have grown up and gotten everything that I can out of a UNI.. And I really don't have drive to finish or go to any classes, because nothing intrests me.. about 6 months ago, I really got into digital art, and have been visiting this forum.. I rarely post, but I read everything on here, and check out all the work.. I go through every tutorial there is.. and Im fascinated by it.. I really want to go onto an art school, but Im faced with the dilema of just finishing... I only have about a year left..

So I came back to talking with folks friends etc.. and the one thing they said that makes all the difference.. is the peice of paper you get when you graduate doesnt say how smart you are... or how much you learned.. But that you invested 4-5 years of your life.. attaining it, and you STUCK WITH IT! you stayed up late nites, to study do papers.. dealt with problems, balancing partying with school.. and you finished.. Emplyers like to see that, they want an employee that has stuck it out, grit there teeth and finished.. Plus in the design field, you dont need a degree in Comp Sci, or Architecture.. You could have a English degree.. or Biology... As long as you devoted time... You have skills already that can get you a job as an entry-level designer.. Keep doing on the side stuff to keep your skills fresh and up to date.

I prolly havent delivered the best reply.. But give Uni a try.. if it isnt for you.. quit..its a small investment that can change your life drastically.

and like all these guys say, Games.. art.. will always be there for you..

Good Luck man...

[Goldabar]

*It was the forum that just kept on giving......the Sijun Forum...."

Heh

I can't believe how many people there are here that have been in the same situation as me, and are actually going through it now (Gargoyle, Harlequin). You guys have really changed my perspective around and thats a good thing I think, now I'm thinking of finding a compromise between me and my parents (not sure if I already posted this but its a long thread to read again, and I've read it about a million times the past 2 days).

I think I'll think about it for a few days and go ahead with some stuff to continue working this out...

Still leaning towards Uni now tho

[ April 01, 2002: Message edited by: Goldabar ]

[Goldabar]

Here's a good one for you all

I was talking to my Dad tonight about some school stuff and I said "oh here's a school assignment I'm doing" and I hand him the booklet I'm making it in. The assignment has to be on a webpage and I'm basing it around DeviantArt.com. So he looks at the front page of the assignment and this is what he sees:



I watch his eyes role over it a few times, then he turns to me and says "Deviant? What does that mean?" (In regards to the site I have a fair idea, "different, strays from the norm, unique" etc, but caught in the moment I answer him quickly wondering why he asked this question).
"I dunno" I said, shrugged my shoulders.
"This guy has horns" he says, looking at the centre picture (its a cool pic, can't remember where I got it but I'm using tons of art from Deviant Art and other sites to show my teacher the kinda stuff you can get there).
So I'm like "yeah, he's some kinda wierd magician or something"
"Looks satanic to me and just what does Deviant mean....sounds like it has to do with hell or something...." (WTF? My dad isn't a bit religeous really...)

I think I just turned around and ignored him, said "what does that have to do with it FFS..."

He walked outta the room and I felt pretty damn pissed :|
Anyways, he came back a few minutes later and said "have you shown your mum that" and I said "nope" and he goes "well you should, it'll blow her away, very good"

Maybe a bit of a mixed message but either he knows he's pissing me off by being too critical or my mum kicked his ass if she overheard what he said to me

[Lunatique]

It seems to me there's a serious lack of communication between you and your father.

Why don't you sit him down and explain to him how the game industry works? Did you ever tell him that the game industry has been making more money than Hollywood for years now? Have you ever told him what the salary is like in games? You need to explain to him that you are not going to be some artsy fartsy gallery painter who starves when no paintings are sold; you will be a COMMERCIAL artist, one who gets a salary and company benefits just like any other job.

[gArGOyLe^]

I had to show my mother Sijun.com, eatpoo.com, blizzard.com videos, digitalart.org, TONS OF PORTFOLIOs.. I got salary reports.. I showed her Job openings.. I showed her all the TV Ads and bookcovers and magazine covers.. and I told her.. look.. all this was made by artists.. and I am an artist wanna-be... Now I have full support and since she's very artistic too she wants to learn too

When I was young I was forced to ignore art cuz I was told that there are NOOOOO openings for artists and that artists only get recognition after they die.. Only a year ago did I wander back into the art side after I found out that thats not true .. Your father probably thinks that thats the case..

So.. its all in the communication and persuasion.

[Muzman]

Never neglect your head. No matter how pragmatic and specific the world appears to be, no matter how certain you are about everything, it could just be a fad, a blip. Looking only for knowledge that appears 'useful' is a pretty quick way to corner yourself. That said, I'm all for going to Uni later. Most schoolies I meet don't know what the fuck they're doing or why. They're just going with the flow 'cause they think they're s'posed to. Quite frankly, Uni's prefer older students who know what they're about and getting in from work is a snap. Use that on Dad too (Christ, what does he think that they won't pay you in the workforce or something?) Higher education is a quantum leap from highschool, remember (often people forget this, I know I have). Everything is geared to <i>your</i> learning. As opposed to highschool which is more like an assembly line; you are sent through the requisite stages, poked, prodded, aits attached, tested and given the impression that Your (limited) Descisions Now Will Direct The Rest of Your Days! Choose Wiseley Young One! Which is bullshit really. However it tends to work on kids and parents alike.
There is also the possibility that you'll think the game industry blows chunks (it may seem impossible now, but you haven't had to design under duress yet, doing the long hours making maps for a poorly directed game you don't care about and whose designs you have no say in. Your individuality or your paycheck which will it be?), or your dream work environment gets crushed by some stock market blip, at which point you might like to branch out a little.
So, if people are offering you places especially, getting some gig doing something you like couldn't really hurt. But the Australian game industry is a hard sell still. Small and practically invisible (incidentally I've seen that oft quoted stat that computer games make more money than movies debunked quite severely. I wish I could find where it was... It was arrived at by a selective set of conditions that didn't reflect the way things are anyway. Not that's it's a small or unstable industry though. It's about as stable as any industry these days.)
So, yeah, I'm saying go for it (have you checked out other gaming houses like Auran?), the Irrational guys seems a stand-up bunch o'lads (you will have to live in Canberra though won't you oh well you can't have everything). Don't worry too much about being a fish out of water if (when!) you take a uni spot down the track (if we still have a public education system by then...er, well best not to think about it). It's so far removed from school it really is the same for everyone. And you'll have some perspective to help make it what you want.
Good luck anyways.

[Goldabar]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatique:
It seems to me there's a serious lack of communication between you and your father.

Why don't you sit him down and explain to him how the game industry works? Did you ever tell him that the game industry has been making more money than Hollywood for years now? Have you ever told him what the salary is like in games? You need to explain to him that you are not going to be some artsy fartsy gallery painter who starves when no paintings are sold; you will be a COMMERCIAL artist, one who gets a salary and company benefits just like any other job.

---

Yup, I've explained all those points over and over again, when I do the arguement just returns back to his first point and it starts over again. I even said that to him, that he keeps returning to his earlier questions when I've already answered them as best I can and that he's not helping things by doing that. In fact things would be easier if there was a lack of communication between us because apart from discussions on my future, we get along great (hmm we differ on a LOT of opinions though, such as the fact that he knows I hate his stance on immigration and other races *no further comments* but still we both respect the fact that we both have different opinions, unless of course it's on the subject of my future)

Gargy, these're the things I need to do next, although it's going to be harder for me because as you know my Dad has little respect for art, even industrial/commercial art

And Muzman, jeez, wise words thankyou very much
And on your point of contacting other companies, you're right I will if things go sour with Irrational but for the moment the first reason I contacted them was that I wanted information on the gaming courses around Oz (the AIE, a course in Bathurst, and Brisbane, because until a few weeks ago I planned on doing one of these until Irrational told me that they're not tied into University at all, and a few other things). The chance of an interview was a huge bonus

If things go sour with them, Micro Forte is also in Canberra so I'd maybe contact them, or somewhere like Ratbag.

[ April 02, 2002: Message edited by: Goldabar ]

[Goldabar]

I'm just going to make one final update to this thread to let you all know what has happened.

I've been talking things over with my Dad a lot the past few days and we've come to a bit of a mutual agreement, so here's the plan

What I'm going to try to do is get as much information as I can from this University at Canberra, and the one at Newcastle (which is an hour from my house, my parents want me to go there so that I can live at home and drive there everyday).

I'm going to end up doing one of 2 things. Firstly, if I can get into the Canberra University, which has a better Graphics Design course than Newcastle, I'm going to firstly work out whether Irrational would allow me to do some kinda of part time work for them. Now this option has a lot of downsides so it probably won't happen. Firsly it'll cost a lot to live at Canberra and go to Uni with only some kind of part time job (with Irrational).
So the second option I have is to go to University at Newcastle, and see if Irrational would let me do some kinda of contracted work so that I can at least do something with them. I've told them I'm going to have to talk to them about all this, and also before the end of this year I'm going to see if I can go visit them maybe a couple of times (they want to meet me in person, as I said). So I'm not sure at all how things could work out there. The whole thing is gonna be stuffed if they decide they don't want me at all

I guess lastly I could just go for a full time job at Irrational but now that looks extremely unlikely

And one last thing, my Mum has stepped in on one point. It's about the thing with my School Assignment looking like it has to do with Satan or something (I showed a pic of this above). My mum got extremely pissed about this, and talked to my Dad about it, and all my Dad had to say to her about the frontpage of my Assignment was "if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck" (in other words it has horns so it MUST be Satan )
Ah well

Thanks EVERYONE for all the help in this thread, I can't believe how supportive you all were especially seeing I'm new to this forum. So thankyou all for your patience with me, you've probably all affected my life already just with this thread (which is kinda freaky!) Thanks again!!

[razzak]

thats cool man. its been an interesting thread

[Switch]

Hope I'm not reviving a dead thread here but I just want'ed to say I'm a young Ausie with a Dad like yours.

I want to Ilustrate kids books, and he wants me to be an architect.

I'm almost half-way through a Bachelour of Graphic Arts. It's very easy for me, but I learn things here and there.

I think you should go to your local Uni and get the peice of paper. If you do a similar course to the one I'm doing you'll have a lot of spare time (depending on your part-time job) so you can keep having fun with your LD, and it's a good rest after year 12.

Try and get an RPL (recognition of prior learning) by showing the teachers your portfolio. If it's good enough they'll cut a year or so off the course for ya!

Kids at Uni will fear your skills and they will call you an arse hole because your work is too good. But you'll make some new friends.

They do get you doing a lot of advertising stuff but you can still manage to create concepts which excite you personally.

They use photoshop and illustrator which your probably already familiar with so you'd do just fine.

Btw what's your deviantart nick?

Mines switched

P.s Rap dancing Bogans!!?? Haha.

[Goldabar]

It's been a long time and I hope people aren't pissed with me bringing this thread back from the dead, but it was a good thread and now, 6 months or so down the track, I'd like to give you all an update on how things are going.

Firstly, I apologise Switch! I don't know how I missed your post! My Deviantart nick is Goldabar, funnily enough. I haven't posted any of my work there yet though.

Ok, so when I last left you all, I was leaning towards going to University (I think), my Dad was against me going for a job at Irrational Games, and I was feeling pretty down.

Right now, I'm in the midst of my HSC exams. It's a very stressful time at the moment, for myself and all my school mates (and everyone in this situation across the state) but just a few more weeks and it'll be over. So far I'm not sure how I've gone in my exams...my head has been in the clouds on most of my exam days because it's hay fever season here and I can't hold a thought in my head when I have bad sinus

I've been for my interview at Irrational Games, around a month or 2 ago, and was told I'd know if I have the job around November (very soon, just as my exams finish). The interview went fantastically, it was definately "an experience" to meet the people (in person for once) behind the games I love, sit down, and have a chat with them. As far as I can tell, the interview went great. Of course in hindsight I can see "I shoulda said this here, should have discussed this better..." etc etc, but ah well, can't change it now. From what I've heard, the Producer was especially happy with the interview but I'm not going to get my hopes up about the job, anything could happen at this point.

I know that back when I made this thread I was leaning towards going to University. I think I've changed my mind for a few reasons. First and foremost, I know how cliched', childish, and predictable it sounds, but I'm "over school". I really do feel at this point that if I was forced into sitting in an education system for a few more years, I'd go insane. I'm at that stage where I want to spread my wings and "get things done" ie. do some work that produces a tangible result, and get paid for it, while learning as I go along. I really can't wait to put in some hard work, and work as part of a team. That said, I'd like to go back to Uni in a few years time. I think that I need this rest, just to have a break from school, do a bit of work, and grow up a little (if I get the job, I'll be living on my own in Canberra).

During the interview, the Producer (Tony) said that he took the same route that I'm taking, he worked for a few years, went back to Uni, and enjoyed it because he felt he was doing it for the right reasons. He was ready get a degree, ready to put in the work required, and he didn't feel burnt out from 13 years of school. The same went for the Lead Level Designer, Jay, and I'm not sure about the head of the company (Jon Chey), but I believe he went to University straight after school. By the way...these guy's opinions didn't change my mind or affect my decision to go for this job. They did say "You do realize we got you here because we'd like to talk you out of going to Uni?" and I said thats fair enough, understandable, and I had a feeling they'd do that. But by this time I'd made the decision pretty much anyways, to take the job if they offered it. The only thing holding me back was my parents, which is my next point

I stated in my earlier posts that my Dad was very much against me getting a job straight away and abandoning Uni, let alone the fact that the job I wanted involved making video games. Well ladies and gentlemen, my Dad has made a huge turnaround
I think this is for a couple of reasons. Firstly, a big fat cheque arrived in the mail for the work I did on Tactical Ops (dispelling the myth that you can't make money doing this stuff). Secondly, on my trip to Canberra to go to this interview and check out the Uni there, my Dad and I talked a hell of a lot. I won't go into specifics but I guess he came to see how excited I was about going to this interview, and basically saw that I wasn't going to give up on this job. When I told him the interview had gone great, he was extremely happy (which surprised me). I was expecting him to say I should still consider Uni etc, which he did, but he also said that if the job is offered to me, I should go for it. Which feels FANTASTIC! He's finally giving me full support, I can't tell you how happy this makes me
My Mum is sad, knowing that her "little boy" is leaving home at the end of the year (if the job pulls through), but she's also supporting me
So I'd like to thank you all for the support and advice you all gave me when I first made this thread, especially those of you who showed concern about me having a falling out with my Dad. It's all turned out great in the end

One final note, I'll keep you all posted on how things go from here, about the job. If I don't get it, I'm going to have to wait to see what my exam marks are like, and if I can get into Uni. If so, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get a degree now rather than later. Applying for a job elsewhere is also an option, and I might take that up if this one doesn't pull through, Just have to wait and see, its only a few weeks away now

/me is excited

[daeldren]

Hahaha, sounds exactly like my step dad. When I got out of high school my parents pretty much made me believe that I wasnt going to do anything with my life or my art so instead I ended up enlisting in the army, unfortunately (or fortunately I guess) I was discharged for respiratory problems. once I got back I faught so much with my step father and finally got into a university just so I didnt have to listen to him again. But to be honest with you I wish I had gone out and worked for a little bit that way I could get a foothold in the industry and then go to school part time later on.

[Steelwind]

I can't believe I missed this thread back when it was new. Anyway:

I took a year off after my last year of public school. I then went to a state school for Illustration (There weren't any game design degrees back then...yeah, it was a while ago). Was there for two and a half years, dropped out for various reasons (one of them being I didn't want to do illustration any more).

Took three years to discover what I did want to do and find a school where I could learn it. Went there, learned it, graduated, still trying to break in. Right now I'm a tester at Infogrames.

My point? Don't be afraid to do anything. If you want to try it, try it; if it isn't right, you'll know it soon enough.

If I could've said it before, I would have said go for the job at Irrational, school isn't going anywhere. And you can always go back to school.

Steelwind

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Steelwind ]

[Light]

I wouldn't count having a job until you have one. I've had a few interviews too (in the games industry). They hire very few people but you might get lucky.

It doesn't really matter what you do as far as I'm concerned. Also, I should add that those people who whine about not being able to go back to school should remember that you are the same people who made excuses the first time.

The way I see it do whatever you want. Don't complain. Just do it. And good luck!

[egerie]

I would also avoid "borrowing" art at any cost for any project.

quote

Quote:

8 th

[Blind Tree Frog]

If I might make a suggestion, if you are so hell bent on level design, have you considered Architecture as a field of study in school if/when you go back? Especially if you get burned out on game design, it might offer you a similar field to what you seem to already love doing.

[GoatCheeseBlues]

Well I haven't read the entire thread so I don't if anyone has said this or not, but I have to say that if you're dad is willing to pay for your education, you'd be an idiot to not take it. You don't know how good you have it if this is your biggest problem. It sounds like you have understanding parents, and they would let you take a year off so you can screw around a bit, but I think you should take this opportunity while you still can. You may think that going to school is a waste of you time, but I seriously think that you'll be missing out. College is not high school, and if you think that you've taken everything you can from school, you are wrong. If you just get rid of your childish "this stuff is stupid, why am I learning this" attitude, you will find that most of the stuff they teach is fairly interesting, and you may even find something that you really like. In every class you have, there will be something that you can take from it. Why wouldn't you want to broaden you box of experience? Even if you don't want to learn anything other than level designing, you'd be missing the entire social experience of college. You'll meet a lot of seriously good people, and you'll find people your age that have the same interests as you. While you can make friends anywhere, it's not going to be as easy as in college. Why would you want to spend you're time partying with a buch of programing guys, when you can be drinking with a bunch of half naked girls!?! I'm telling you right now that you'll be making a big mistake if you don't take this chance right now. Don't think that it's always going to be there either. Accidents happen, disease spreads, and things change. You can never count on things staying the same. You can always enter the work force whenever you want, but it's a lot harder to go back to school once you have to support yourself. So please take my advise and go to school now. It's more fun than working, i'm sure everyone will agree with me on that(unless you're a playboy photographer or anything like that).
But! If you're really serious about working, and you've decided that life isn't worth living unless you're in the industry right now, just do it. Go get that job and move into an apartment, and start working. You're and adult, you don't need your parents permission for anything. Just take the leap and do it. Of course, if you go to college for at least a little bit, you can probally find someone to take the leap with you, which would make it a lot easier.
Anyways, just do whatever you want to do, but seriously give the university some more thought. You don't know what it's like to go to college, so don't just dismiss it right away.

P.S. DO NOT GO INTO ARCHITECTURE!!!! It cost a rediculous amount of money. You'll be in kinkos every day, and you'll have to build expensive models non-stop. And thats all for one basic level architecture class. You'll still have to buy books for your other classes, which is already obsenely priced. So unless it's been your childhood dream to design a building, do not go into that major. It's not something i'd just try out to see if I like it. Graphic design can get a bit costly as well, but not nearly as bad as architecture. Well, thats just a small warning for you if you do go to school.
Good luck with whatever happens.

- Brian

[Blind Tree Frog]

quote:

---

P.S. DO NOT GO INTO ARCHITECTURE!!!! It cost a rediculous amount of money. You'll be in kinkos every day, and you'll have to build expensive models non-stop. And thats all for one basic level architecture class. You'll still have to buy books for your other classes, which is already obsenely priced. So unless it's been your childhood dream to design a building, do not go into that major. It's not something i'd just try out to see if I like it. Graphic design can get a bit costly as well, but not nearly as bad as architecture. Well, thats just a small warning for you if you do go to school.
Good luck with whatever happens.

---

Considering architecture is a exceptionally difficult degree, duh. Have you ever looked at engineering majors?

But if he enjoys laying out buildings and landscapes, then yeah, architecture seems like it might be a good fit. If you are picking your major based on the amount of work involved then you are picking the wrong major.

[GoatCheeseBlues]

Ok, I may have been too harsh in saying not to go into architecture all in caps like that, but I was just warning him that it costs a lot. I don't know his economic situation, but I know a lot of people that started in the architechture program without knowing hom much extra it would cost them on top of tuition, food, housing, etc. Most of them were barely able to scrape enough money just for tuition, and they had to leave the major because they couldn't afford the supplies to pass a class. They ended up falling behind a year in school, wasting the money they already spent on supplies and tution for that year. It wasn't because they did not want to do the work, it was because they couldn't afford to do it. The teachers expect high quality products out of you from the start, and that doesn't come without a price. As a small example of this is that they want you to use an X-acto blade for 3 cuts at most and then throw it away. After the 3 cuts, the blade is useless in their eyes. A 100 box of blades is over $20.00 and you go through that pretty quick in the process of building just one model. So if you are planning on going into architechture, add an extra $1,500 to what you were originally planing on spending for that year. If you can still afford it, please try it out and see how you like it. I just warn people because a lot of my friends were were screwed over because they didn't know this information beforehand.

-Brian

[gigatron]

Hmm where do I begin, Goldbar i can not believe that there is someone SO CLOSE TO ME! That is you... you have NO .. wait you have A TOTAL idea (lol) of how i feel. ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you stated has happend to me.. I am just in the beginning of grade12 however I had amounts of loooong discussions like you with both of my parents. My mother was fortunately more understanding, however my father made me very depressed... Unlike you though I am a 3d modeler, and am mad (or was...) about the industry, I have worked on several mods myself, (even shadow warrior/duke nukem mods... yes u hear me), but slowly and slowly i became very depressed (something I dont share with most people when i interact, but this is the internet i feel better talking about it i guess heh...). Anyways I felt ready to just take off and practice on my own which was what was making me constantly better (practicing for half a year in modeling, painting, etc... means a huge difference when you look back), I was also getting sick of school, i haven't learned much in high school honestly... I felt surrounded by immature babies, stupid convos, ignorant dimensionally illusional people, however... they are my peers and i have to live with it... In fact last semester (grade11 second semester) i was extremely depressed, i was always tired, not-motivated for doing anything, very stressed, I can't describe it in words... But I kept moving and moving, I tryed everything, I also showed my parents my models and such, at first they were not really knowledged so they wouldn't understand how sophisticated some of the work was, or how valuable (not just to me but others). The sense of community within the games, etc... I also had a little offer for a commercial game.. but just turned it down.. None the less I don't want to retell what you've been trying/doing/saying, honestly I've tryed all the little things and been through the little issues... and honestly right now I am just going to play along.. I will enter college (Sheridan). I mean what the hey... But I still feel very uneasy.. I can't describe it I dont know :/ I still feel let down, now in grade12, the year is very easy but.. when i get home I am still frustrated thinking... so I don't spend any time modeling.. I listen to music and ponder but it feels like a waste, almost like im depressed again, and often i just draw, but I sense that the outcome can be good from going to sheridan.. I will meet people close by, people who might be interested in my wild idea of joining the game industry (perhaps start my own little group/team, make a demo, impress a publisher.. who knows). Hmm I am glad there are people who actually understand your and my situation... I just feel the world is cruel in certain ways, my father has an electronics engineering and computer science university degree, worked 20 years in the computer industry... however.. when a big boss (super capitalist) swings his wallet out and sees missing extra bills, he plays the shake the palm tree and get rid of the cocos games, (aka my dad got cut from IBM no matter what a good employee he was) and then hires cheap hirets from uni who arent obliged to be paid alot. In other words i am not really gauranteed to get a job as much as if i would just practice practice pracitce on my own.. but then there is the social factor (which i believe someone mentioned), I dont know.. I am just rambling Sometimes i feel confused or like i am wasting life, but then perhaps im just being wild and anctious, because i really love games like you, I've played my first game when i was 3 (a bunch of commodore games? and prince of persia? Ya those were my first games I ever played) and have loved every game since always aspiring that one day i will make them myself... Hmm I feel uneasy i swear, i don't know i can't tell for sure of course unless i try, whether the outcome would be better if i kept working no little games, mods, practicing on my own, or going to college and learning the 'formal' way of things.. Argh I am so tired I will go nap Thank you to all the people that posted I read 70% of all that was written (just noticed the post tonight). I am glad that we have support

Add: I was reall ambitious and capable, but my father made me feel like i wasn't ready and useless without a stinking formal diploma... Everyone in my family has one of some sort (mostly engineering, sciences, math), and he is always saying that I would be the only exception. Makes me feel like shit...

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: gigatron ]

[B0b]

m8 i feel for you, my mum is exactly the same, this is after 11 years of Graphic Design..

she wanted me to go2 college after school @ study 2 b a Draughtsman, so i studdied engineering (even tho' i wanted to draw comics), i got an Apprenticeship in Engineering but found after a year of mind numbing numbers looking @ Laithes etc that i wasn't full filled by what i was doing, so i quit.. when i told her that i'd quit and wanted to study illistration @ college she went off the wall @ me + dis-owned me

but i went to college, but instead of taking an illustration course i took what they call here a youth training course in Graphic Design, basically i was in the industry (sposed to get taught while working for a company but that didn't really happen, it just forced me to teach myself) and had a day release to college to study the subject..

but i have to say that the hastle you get from your parents is to b expected when choosing a career thats a little different from what is considered the 'norm'.. she still nags me about my chosen career (basically i think because my brother has been so successful in programming, but then he has no artistic flare ). but i believe my time has come now as i've been dealing with some gr8 ppl l8ly who've seen what i do and like it alot, and my work load is beginning to take off in a big way

[Blind Tree Frog]

Brian, I agree completely with that last post. The architect majors i've known have worked their ass off constantly and all said it was not a cheap nor easy degree.

[Goldabar]

Firstly, Egerie the teacher knows that that isn't my art or anything> i used numerous images as the watermarks for the backgrounds of my pages throughout that assignment, and I told the teacher they were just examples of stuff I'd gotten off of Deviant Art and other art websites off the net, to give an example of what is available at that site. I didn't make any cash out of the assignment either and as far as I know theres some kind of exception to copywrite rules for students...

Besides I'm sure Stephanie wouldn't mind, in fact she worked on a publisher game demo that i worked on, called the 8th wonder: http://www.wondershowstudios.com/

Just gonna make some quick points
I have considered doing Architecture, but you guys are probably right about cost etc. Ideally, when i go to Uni I'll be doing a Multimedia Production course, which focuses on script writting, animation (2d and 3d), story telling, etc. Should be good. The point is that in all probability, I will be going to Uni, just not for a couple of years. I know I'm making it look like I think "school has nothing to teach me", some of my earlier points may have made me seem that way. Those are from 6 months or so ago, and it may sound dumb, but I think I've grown up a bit in that short space of time

I know at least a lot of the stuff I've learnt in my IPAT (Info Processes and Tech) class will be helpful down the road, like the stuff I've learnt about project management, system developement and implementation, decision support system etc...
English will be helpful in some ways...it kept my brain active all year at least, and helped improve my writting skills. Not my creative writting skills thought, which is annoying. Of course, art class has helped me a lot (for obvious reasons) and maths? I never want to touch maths ever again. Religion class...bleh. Not very useful.

GoatCheeseBlues, I realize that having financial hep from my parents is something I shouldn't miss. But then again if I take that offer, as I've said, I'll feel like I'm missing out on making my dreams come true now. I can't help the way I feel Not easily anyways. If I do decide to go back to Uni in 2 years, they've said they'll support me fully (help pay for it etc). In fact I should make the quick point that my Dad is going back to Uni next year, by correspondance. And he's 44 yrs old!

Someone said I'm hell bent on LD...I should mention (dunno if I already have) that like pretty much everyone in the gaming biz, thats not where I want to remain for my entire career. I'd like to be a designer if possible, but yes, I know that its hard to get to that point when you start out as an LD...but yes I also know that if I work hard enough at it, I should be able to get there. No point in saying to yourself "I MIGHT be able to get there"...you have to push yourself hard for anything to be possible.

Gigatron, people like me and you seem pretty common
All I can say is read over this thread alot hehe. Don't let school get you down too much because it will be over eventually, and DON'T become slack with your work during your final year of highschool. I took the last 6 months off from mapping to concentrate on school, and I'm paying for it now (in fact I just started using the new Unreal engine tech today....ack, not good to try this stuff after 6 months of feeling stale).

Just don't give up man, and don't have a falling out with your parents over this, its not worth it.

[lalPOOO]

From what you've said, you seem to have to have your mind pretty much made up. Thats not always a good thing, but neither is it a bad thing.
I'm not too knoledgealbe in that whole area, but I think I have enough knoldge to suggest some things.
Make sure the company that would hire you is going to go somewhere, or at least give you enough "experience" to get another job. if you sign on to the company, it dies and you don't have the golden degree, and not much to show from your previous work, you may be screwed.

But as you have stated, the student loans and so forth are somewhat atrocious, and if the whole university isn't required, it doesnt really make sense to do it. One thing I think you may have missed is that much like in the work place, chances are you'd be working with people who are interested in a lot of the same things you are. After all, they are paying to be there.

I know this isn't quite as good as some other peoples advice, but I can't speak from experience.

my final suggestion would be to actually draw some kind of "map" on paper (or with the tablet) of the kind of oppurtunites that would be available via each path, and research them. It will probably yeild some usfual information.

[lalPOOO]

wait, wiat, shit, you did tatical ops?
like the maps for it?
aside from the fact that thats fucking amazing....
are you guys going to make a TO for ut2k3?

alright, I suck. I just read the whole thread and found out you'd already decided and all. Serves me right for not reading the whole thing.

[ November 02, 2002: Message edited by: lalPOOO ]

[Goldabar]

About drawing up my career path. I spoke to the guys interviewing me about this, and its wierd but they seemed kinda surprised when I said I'm going to make game developement a full on career for myself. When I first spoke to the head Level Designer at Irrational, I said "So this is the place huh? The place where people go to get their dream jobs" and he kinda fuddled his brow and said "Well...its like that for some people. Not all though" (something like this). I get the feeling that here in Australia for some reason, people don't stay in the industry for very long. Maybe because the pay isn't great, maybe because its hard to really get noticed in the world market and get ahead in your company...I'm not sure. But I did say to the 3 people interviewing me that I'd like to move onto being a lead artist/level designer/designer etc (and I said to them "same as everyone else" hehe) and they seemed fine with this. So I guess that if you work hard enough and have some talent you can make it pretty far. I'll see how things go (if I even get the job!)

And yeah I worked on Tactical Ops, the retail version. My map is "TO-Conundrum". I could have designed it a little better I think, the map is really huge and the 3 main paths though the map are too disconnected from each other. I think the problem was that I never actually got to PLAY Tac Ops until I got the retail/boxed release. My connection was too bad for me to download anything but textures and code to make my map, I never had any of the up to date versions of the gameplay code, and hence, had no idea of how the game actually played
I made the map too much for tactical play instead of the fast paced play that regular players are used to, so the map kind've failed IMO. Ah well.

And unfortunately, Infogrames now owns the rights to the Tactical Ops brand so we can't make it for UT2k3 as a free MOD now. We are working on some stuff though

[lalPOOO]

damn it, I hope you were paid well.
But I deffinitly await the things you guys have instore...

[Goldabar]

Got a bit of an update

I got a phone call today from Irrational to let me know I got to job I'll be entering as a Junior Level Designer (entry level job) some time in January next year.

Whew, what a DAY. When I was speaking to the guy over the phone, it slowly started to sink in that I had the job (he didn't even kinda yell/say "you got the job!" he kinda started off saying "Ok we need to organize what time you'll be arriving here, what you're going to do about accomadation, etc etc" and I'm think "oh !@#$ oh !@$^ oh #%^$". next thing I know for the first time ever I was completely speechless LOL, I wasn't expecting the phone call at all, and I was in the middle of studying for my final school exam, and so he caught me offgaurd and I kind've freaked...forgot to breathe while talking and ended up sounding like a vegetable I can't help it! It was like a life defining moment or something....I day I've dreamt about for years and there it was happening, and I'm reduced to a guy who has the vocabulary of a carrot

Anyways yeah not much more to say...dreams can happen I guess? I'm still feeling slightly wobbly and the phonecall was like 6 hours ago. And I need to study for my last exam, I have NO IDEA how I'll concentrate now. I think I'll fail

Anyways, yeah. YAY!!
_________________
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The big fish eat the little ones.