[Per Bj�rsmo]

After searchning the web I've found out that Painter costs alot of money. So did you guys really pay for Painter?

[Sukhoi]

Well Painter classic was bundled with my wacom so...no, not really.

Weird question.

Sukhoi

[ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: Sukhoi ]

[Per Bj�rsmo]

My question is:
Did you
A: Bought painter.
B: Downloaded it from Warez.

[Michael Ullrich]

No!!! -I've bought Painter5 at EBAY. What a question!

[ September 26, 2002: Message edited by: Michael Ullrich ]

[HawkOne]

I'll take an inspired guess at who would buy Painter ... (and most other professional software...)

In case of the professional full versions of Painter 90% of those using it in their work would buy it, 5% might have gotten it as a promotional copy, and another 5% have probably gotten hold of a pirated copy ...

Disregarding the stripped down "free" copies that come with your hardware, or some sort of bundle, I also guess that those numbers would be reversed in the case of non-professionals, like amateurs and students who are just noodling around with it for a while, don't mind missing an extra CD or 5, and the manuals, figures out that there is no magic "tricks", and they still have to practice and basically learn to draw anyway ... Those who like it, would probably move on to work with licensed copies when their economic or working situation allows them to. Either way, I feel that both types are perfectly OK, increasing exposure to the masses are good business in a competitive market ...

However, making profits from pirated software is NOT OK though, and many feel that getting the full package with manuals and other extras is actually a good buy ... if it is something you're serious about ...

Although not really related, it is a bit like finding yourself watching an Eminem video on MTV, and enjoying the corny superhero video for example, whereas you'd (I'd) never actually spend any money on his CDs ... If you REALLY did like it, you'd probably go out and buy the CD.

But then it's just my (inspired) guess ...


Here in South East Asia, those numbers are totally turned inside out, because of peoples "relaxed" attitudes to copyright properties. I saw in a tech-paper that less than 30% of local businesses had licenced copies of the software used for their own winning ... It's illegal of course, but changings peoples attitudes will probably take generations ...

[damppuppy]

Why yes I did. But I'd suggest you test it out before you acutally buy it. I was slightly disaapointed with some of the features, namely layers.

[gLitterbug]

What HawkOne said, can�t put it any better!

[xmmx]

Is the painter classic that came with my wacom anything like the retail version of painter, because I have been playing with classic for a few days and I am loving how natural it feels but I long for layers in it.

[Socar J. MYLES]

Bought it, used it...twice. Did the same with Flash, except even worse--I only used that once.

I plan on giving Painter another chance one day, though. Flash...nah.

[Torstein Nordstrand]

HawkOne: I couldn't agree more. When people grow up and start making money, they'll buy the application they've come to use regularly over the first years. Would Photoshop be so popular and widespread if it weren't so available to the younger generation? You can download Photoshop everywhere, but Painter is a rare find.

...but let's not discuss Piracy again

A quick survey for the forum would sure be entertaining.

[Queezy]

I used a pirated copy of Painter 5 for the longest of time, but now that I have fallen in love with the program I actually bought Painter 7. It's not even that expensive.

Having the box and manual is pretty good.

[convoyrider]

Have you guys ever been to Asia, any program and I mean any program for $2.50. And these are high qualtiy stuff with etched picture and everything. I'm not advocating piracy or anything, but if you have the chance to get something for $2.50 as opposed to hundreds of dollars - what are you gonna choose.

[Jin]

In answer to the last post:

If you don't want to be a thief, and encourage thieves, you choose to buy the software legally.

In answer to the first post, yes, I really do buy Painter and own version 4, 5, 6, and 7 along with another early Fractal Design program named Sketcher.

[Pat]

I bought my copy as well.

If you're serious about painting, you'll know you can spend $360 on paint, canvas and brushes in a heartbeat. Besides, I'm as excited about the future of Painter as I am about the most recent version. By supporting the programmers I'm insuring the continued development of the program. Small price to pay.

-Pat

[daeldren]

Im wondering what all these guys mean by "professional" in my opinion a professional artist is someone who gets paid for doing art, if so then obviously they will have the money to spend on the programs they use all the time. But for those of us still studying or just starting out, dishing out $600 or so on an art program when we dont even know if we are good enough to do it professionally yet seems a little wastefull.

[HawkOne]

@ daeldren ...

Actually if you are just starting out, you should be more than happy for quite a while with the Painter Classic that either came/will come with your tablet, or can probably be had for next to nothing. You could also buy a copy of Painter 6, Manuals and all for 30-40US$ on Ebay.
Metacreations Painter 6 /bound user manual

Some people here actually like version 6 better than 7. Painter 7 can also be downloaded and tried for free, although you are not likely to be able to go from beginner to pro in 30 days, that takes years, and I myself will probably die trying. Student discounts can also be had for most mainstream professional software, also in the UK.

There are also other tools too that will also get you started, like PaintShopPro from www.jasc.com or ArtGem from www.rlvision.com
, there are many more and although they are not exactly comparable to Painter, many are cheap (like PSP7) or even free shareware like ArtGem, and work fine for beginners. There really is no exuse to whine about the price of cutting edge software, there are just so many ways around it. In any case, an illustration comes out beautifully from both free and expensive software. No point in being a snob and think that only the best is good enough for my baby steps.

If I decided to become the world Formula 1 Champion, the last thing I'd be doing is get into the actual F1 car. I'd have to work my way up, all the way from Go-Cart before I'd even be able to start a F1 car, let alone drive it around the track at speeds that would make me qualify for a race ...

Blah-Blah-Blah ... Woohoo ... another stupid analogy from me ...
... how clever ...



[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: HawkOne ]

[Jin]

Hi,

If you're going to suggest that your school's graphics department add Painter to their collection of software (an excellent idea!), be sure **not** to suggest Painter Classic even if they do get it free with Wacom tablets.

Painter Classic is a joke for anyone intending to go into professional graphics as it doesn't have Layers and many of the other features needed to do professional work. Using Painter Classic, you're limited to only a few brush settings, like opacity and brush size.

Methods of selection are limited as well and there's no way to save a user selection.

If they're interested at all in adding Painter, urge them to invest in a full Painter version. Painter 7 is the current version and I don't know if schools get discounts, but it's worth asking Corel/Procreate.

As mentioned above, there are student discounts available for Painter 7.

[digistyle]

I got my copy of Painter 5.5 for free. Computer Arts magazine was giving away copies with their magazine shortly after Metacreations decided to dump their products and concentrate on Web software. I suspect that Corel and/or Metacreations authorized the giveaway to increase the number of Painter users who would buy Corel's upgrade and become Corel customers. I'll probably buy version 7 after I upgrade to a more powerful 'puter. You might check the Computer Arts website, they sell back issues which include any featured software. Painter came with issue 112, Sep 2000. Its a great magazine, I also have full copies of Amorphium, Maya PLE & D Sculptor thanks to them. Happy hunting!

digistyle

[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: digistyle ]

[hans_e]

hmmm... I have a mixed view on the subject. I am a student in the computer graphics field and know many others in the same profession. I live on a extremely low budget, and cannot afford to buy expensive programs on a whim. I have used many different rips of programs to test their quality and ease of use. I have written several small articles for design mags and have steered my peers into checking out the ones that I deem worthy. Though I have used these progams extensively I have made no money off of the pirated versions. I figure that in the world of computers (and in every profession) knowlege is power. I look at the other side of the spectrum and agree, that for these software companies our money is a necessity for updating their programs. I buy what I try/learn on and end up liking. As for painter, a program that I have not worked with, I am eager to see what the buzz is about. Maybe I'll recomend it to the school (which would make a hell of a lot of money for that software company in licensing).

To each their own, but in the US and many other counties, piracy is an expensive crime if caught.

[DarkVVulf]

I have Painter Classic, which of course came with my Wacom. I never really could come to like the interface. I've *ahem* sampled Painter 6 and 7 to see if they made any notable changes to it but wasn't impressed.

If I ever manage to get used to Painter Classic (assuming I ever drive myself install it again) I'll probably upgrade to Painter 7.

[jester1966]

I bought my Painter 6 after trying the Painter Classic that came with my Wacom. However, I have the opinion that as long as you are trying to learn a program and not using it professionally (i.e. to earn money with it some way or other) it shouldn't be illegal to have a pirated copy. I'm a PC user for more than 14 years now and during that time installed, tried and used many programs. I usually tried them first and when I discovered that I really used them and really needed them - I bought them. All the others I deleted after a personal evaluation period. If I had bought all the programs I used I would be downright poor by now. I also adviced my employers on which software to buy. Of course I give advice on software I know and find useful. So in the end, my "illegal" usage usually led to buying. It doesn't feel that wrong to me...

[B0b]

nah its just the fact that AOL were found with lots of illegal software in their posession to produce their artwork by FAST (Federation Against Software Theft) and had to shell out sommat like $250,000 to stop the company getting in serious trouble in court.. you can be fined or given a jail sentance for using illegal software (FAST even offer a $1,000 reward for information of illegal copies)

[Torstein Nordstrand]

I think part of the reason why Painter is so "small" (compared to PS), is because PS is readily available for download anywhere on the net, while Painter is quite rare. That means kids have no choice but to get their hands on, and get familiar with PS long before they even hear about Painter. I believe that 30 day trial thing for Painter 7 you can download from the Procreate website, is the way to go. Hackers probably already have made patches to disable the time-limit, which probably was what Procreate expected. The first priority should be to make the product seep into the young community, who'd never buy their program in the first place.

[Jin]

It might also be of interest to know that software companies work together to catch software pirates. They have departments devoted to piracy, and they read software lists, newsgroups, and message boards.

It is illegal, whether you think it should be or not, and the consequences can be pretty unpleasant.. and expensive.

If that doesn't faze readers of this thread, and it should, I wonder what they'd feel if they started their own software company and found their product was being copied illegaly and either sold at a fraction of the retail price or simply given away.

The rationalization that it's OK to either use or sell/give away pirated software because "after all, it ends up getting the software company more customers" is, in my book, a convenient and self-centered delusion.

If it were your own software company, my guess is that you'd want to be paid for someone using your product and not have your customer base watered down by pirates and illegal users.

[HawkOne]

You said it Torstein,

Of course a company will want as much income as possible, and that's fine with me, but to say that they are loosing out and suffer great injustice from people who want to use their software to learn it, that's just ... ummm ... not quite right ...

How can you count it as a loss when a 15 year old kid from anywhere in the world downloads Painter to see if he gets the hang of it ... 30 days is nowhere near enough to do much other than learn the interface ... maybe ... so he/she cracks it open, and plays around with it in his/her free time, for a year or more ...

It is NOT a loss for ProCreate / Corel because this person would NEVER buy this product, whether on student discount or not, UNTIL the day when he/she realizes that, "Hey I'm finally getting the hang of this!" If the person goes on to "produce marketable goods", whether for profit or not, this is the time when the software manufacturer can justifiably put it up as a loss.

Fortunately, in the last year or so, many software companies have started to realize that there are HUGE benefits to making your product easily accessible ... 3D software costing 10-20 times or more than Painter does, is being given away, trial copies, granted with certain limits, but no time limit, and it is opening the doors for so many more people who had no clue, and never will have, that this stuff is available as Warez from the more obscure corners of the internet.

This whole piracy thing needs some rethinking I think ... Should you charge the same price for software ... or music CDs .. or cinema tickets in third world countries for example ?? Or should we just say ... Too bad, you're from Haiti, the poorest country in the western hemisphere, your whole familys annual income is 225US$, less than half of what the RRP of Painter 7 is, give us a call in 50 years time, if you have fixed your nations economy first ...

I for one don't think so ... 20 years downpayment scheme for Painter 7 anyone ?? 350 years downpayment on Houdini Master (3D software, RRP 17,000US$) !!!

That is not how it should be ... things will have to change ... BTW, not everyone on this board is from middle-class suburbia USA ... with hundreds of dollars to spend ... on things they "might" like ... some people in here need to remember that there is a BIG world out there ... outside of the US and Europe ... and we're all in here ... Together ...

Hehehe ... Hallelujah ... come on ... Vote HawkOne for President of The United Artists of the World ... !!!



[ October 03, 2002: Message edited by: HawkOne ]

[B0b]

but then that guy in Haiti manages to get hold of some 'warez' and starts distributing it for money..

not long ago a 13yr old kid here in england was busted for distributing 'warez' so you can understand why the 'software company's' want this cracked down on , its not just mr joe bloggs wanting to learn a product, its the others who think they can get some money out of selling this stuff once they've got it..

[Xyster21]

Why the hell would anyone risk having to pay a huge sum of money or goto jail... there is trial software and demos for use. And if you don't know if you like photoshop or need it within 30 days... then most likely you don't need it but instead only the software that came bundled with your digital camera/scanner/etc... I look at people that ripped photoshop off the net and it pisses me off because here I feel as though I have been cheated (and I am pretty sure Adobe more so) because for one, the person didn't have to pay for it like I had to dish out hard earned cash... I am planning on becoming a graphics artist (and I am pretty sure almost all of us are) so why not just get a job at Subway (like me) for the meantime and buy Photoshop within maybe your first paycheck. Besides, like some said earlier you are missing out on manuals and extra cd's (such as corel's extra cd's) and you also get upgrades such as Photosho7.1 which you can't upgrade if your serial number had been blacklisted, you can't get tech support from the professionals if your really needed it, and just odds and ends. And if you can't afford it because you are under 18 and can't get a job... for those in the US there are work permits (i'm unfamiliar with other countries 'dealies' with child labor) and if you are younger than 16 then start a paper route... cut grass (like I did rofl sux in 120 degree heat in the summer). There is always a way to make money. I'm 19 and have been working my arse off since I was 17 (well a part time job anyhow and before it I did side jobs here and there) when I was 14 I bought most of the parts for building my own computer, then bundled came photoshop (some crappy lite version that came with a scanner or something) and a neighbor had Photoshop 5 I think it was and I tried it out and before I knew it I was saving up for that since I loved screwing around with graphics and skinning in quake1 (back when DM and Rocket Arena was still kewl). Anyhow as my biography continues lol... jk point is, doesn't matter what age you are... you can save up to buy the 'legal' version. A dollar every day for a year just about covers it. And if "I" can do it... SO CAN YOU!!! rofl infomercial

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Xyster21 ]

[Angelic Remix]

My copies of Photoshop 6, Painter 5.5 Web Edition, and 3D Studio MAX R3.1 are all copied. Photoshop and MAX I got from work, Painter from a friend.

I fully intend to buy Photoshop 7, MAX 5, and Painter 7 as soon as I have the cash. I use them frequently enough that I feel it's worth it to support the programmers, no matter how much it costs.

[Xyster21]

Bah I wish they would lower the price on some of these programs... I mean with photoshop it is worth the money and all but gimme a break, the filters are like 100$ + for some of them! So by the time you have owned ps for a year or two it costs in total over 1,000$ (depending on what you buy afterwards to go along with it). But it evens out I suppose with the income you get from making images in photoshop... mmm I love my ps7 (hugs box) :P I wish I had a friend that had painter so I could go and fiddle with it on his/her computer *sniff* I see alot of great work come out of painter.

[xheadinthecloudx]

If you're in the US, and you're a student (or can pretend to be one) check out www.edu.com. They have educational prices for everything...discounts range from $30-$600.

Most of my software I got from the computer lab I manage at my college (legit, since I'm a lab employee) or from teh web design company I used to work for (legit, as we had an extra seat, and I worked from my apartment. since I got laid off, there are now 2 extra seats .