[Blind]

Does anyone know if there's a skinny version of Illustrator out there? You know, kind of like what Adobe did with Photoshop LE? I don't think I'll be dishing out $396.99 USD to draw perspective grids

[Moejoe2k]

Gentlemen!

I think I have the solution for your quandry!
The question being Malachi's: A reliable, maybe even time saving, way to draw multiple objects on different planes and have the perspective on all of them match up without the assistance of 3D software.

You can do that in photoshop quite easily! The only tool you need is the pen tool!
The key to drawing perspective points in to just draw your horizontal eye level and your consistent vanashing points. Create a VERY LARGE a new canvas much wider than taller like 16:1 or 20:1.

Use the pen tool (and the shift key to constrain) to set your horizon lines and then start drawing your guidelines. Zoom in and out andadjust the point if you need to get extremely accurate. You can draw on any different plane. You can drag your path onto any other canvas or image. Click on the "F" key to go into FULL SCREEN MODE in Photoshop then Zoom out to 2 or 3% to get an idea of where you need to draw to. Best of all you can then select your path and choose a small solid brush off of the brush palette (use the airbrush tool) and stroke the path with a bright color. Set the opacity of the layer lower as needed and those are your visual guides. Need more guides? Just draw them in. Create a new path etc, etc.


I actually much prefer the pen tool in photoshop over the pen tool in Illustrator, especially with the rubber band option used. PS's pen just seems smarter and you can copy and paste back and forth between the two applications, at least on the Mac.

Here is a pretty good book that may help. http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=0F61M82R7J&isbn=0471284343

I have several really good books with a lot of tips on perspective. This guy, Yoshiharu Shimizu rocks! http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?userid=6WHOUR2R89&author_last=Shimizu&author_first=Yoshihru&match=exact&options=and

Try and find those books, they are great. Excellent pointers on perspective.

BLIND, your question about selecting angles. You can choose any path point in photoshop. If you need to know the angle and degree from a point, simply refer to your INFO pallette.


Oh! One last thing! Check out the master' Craig's awesome drawings, especially this section as it maybe a good reference for you: http://www.goodbrush.com/hirez_pgs/500nations/500nations.htm

Hope this helps!

[Blind]

Damn... thanks Moe. I'll give that a shot. Someone mentioned not using the pen tool in PS because it's a bit tough to use compared to Illustrator, but I'll try anything.

[Malachi Maloney]

Thanks Moejoe2k, I'll look into that option.


~M~

[spooge demon]

Geez, Malachi, don't off yourself by rendering 50 trillion cubes... Look at some photography first and see what is the best way to paint it. Most buildings are complex enough that the detail makes them a little fuzzy, esp as the distance increases. Also it is unusual to have a perfect grid, it happens but not as much as you would think. I know it may be in bad taste to use one of my things as an example, but look at this one, see how things stack up? Starting with a 3-d model would never have gotten me here. Get one of the "above [city]" books and look through that and approach it as a painter would.

I guess this is not a good approach if the style of Illustration you are doing is highly stylized. But it can help to think this way.

[Blind]

Beautiful pic, spooge. I see what you mean about not needing too much detail in the basic shapes. I can't determine one solid cube or rectangle in the lower city area, yet they're inferred, so it works quite nicely.

Oh, and... I don't think you'll find too many of us bitching about your poor taste in using your own work to illustrate a point

[Malachi Maloney]

Craig~ Ya know, I never even thought about it form that "angle" so to speak. When I first tried to rough out the city as a sketch, nothing was coming together correctly. That's how I approach all my work, by first sketching all of my ideas out and then re-sketching and so on. That's the only way I know to accurately reproduce my vision of the layout, composition, etc.. In my mind everything must start with a sketch. The sketch must be correct before painting can ever begin for me. So, just throwing down some color and building shape and lighting by painting it from the get go had never even entered my mind. I guess I could try to go that wrought, but it's going to take me some time and practice, maybe too much time then I have allotted for this project , which has to be finished by November 1st and I can't even start working on the burning city piece until I'm finished with the painting I'm working on right now. But I'm sure you're probably right about how I should approach this piece, Craig. You usually are.
So, when I can, I'll start work on that piece and try to approach it as a painter would.

Thanks for the advice dude (great painting btw ).

Take it easy,
Malachi

[edible snowman]

it seems like you could just set up some basic blocks in a 3d program to get a feel for the perspective and then paint over them. its not going to be perfect, but assuming you know what you're doing it probably wont be noticeable.

[Malachi Maloney]

That's basically what I had in mind, edible.
I was planning on constructing a wire frame in 3D, then painting over that to create the actual buildings.

~M~

[convoyrider]

I can't remember which board I saw it on, but there was this guy who used a wire frame of a sphere to set out his perspective. If someone has a link to it, please post it cos Id love to see it again

[eyewoo]

Another Photoshop transfrom tool perspective trick - A Tutorial - quick down and dirty perspective guide lines.

[AndyT]

That's witty eyewoo!!

[eyewoo]

witty???

[AndyT]

Language issue!!!
Imaginative? Resourceful?

[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: AndyT ]

[Ian Jones]

quote:

---

This works best using Photoshop 7 in which the transform tool has a realtime display of changes being made. i.e., unlike earlier versions of Photoshop, the image changes as you move the transform tool's anchor points -- you can see what you are doing.

---

hahahah. You couldn't resist...

btw, 5.5 you can see realtime updates...? I can anyway...

[eyewoo]

ah-ha... got it... and thanks

[Galo]

quote:

---

That's basically what I had in mind, edible.
I was planning on constructing a wire frame in 3D, then painting over that to create the actual buildings.

---

That's no use really because if you want to have dynamic perspectives you're grid wont be any good cause you want more then one VP on your horizon

Example :


'im order to avoid problems it is best to remember this basic rule : the auxillary vanishing points always remain on the vertical of one of the principal ones, one above and the other below'

quote : 'mastering perspectives : ISBN : 3-8290-6099-8'

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Galo ]

[Ian Jones]

True, true... but what about the saying:

"everything can fit inside a box"

Once you have your boxes you can subdivide and get angles, not perfect but should be fine for the kind of guidleline perspective that they are looking for.

[eyewoo]

quote

Quote:

hahahah. You couldn't resist...

quote

Quote:

btw, 5.5 you can see realtime updates...? I can anyway...

I have a copy of 5.5 on an old computer... just checked it and there were no realtime updates. The image did not update until after the moved anchor point was released. You see it update as you move the anchor point? Is there a preference configuration for that?

I should mention that I'm on a Windows system... Maybe the Mac systems could do it in earlier versions...???

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

[Blind]

I don't remember that option either. And I just looked all over PS6 6to try and find where you can turn on being able to see transforms. No luck...

[Blind]

I just got a chance to read that new tutorial you put up eyewoo. Another really great tip... thanks!

[Ian Jones]

Eyewoo:

Just a misunderstanding, sorry you are right it doesn't realtime update. I thought you meant it didn't update until you had hit enter. Despite the way it works in 5.5 I don't have any problems with it, it ain't hard to let go of you button and then press it again. It's just a matter of habit for me. Btw it is the same on PC as well as Mac. I tested that today.

[iByrn]

Spooge Demon: if I was to, say, paint a close-up of a city, from the perspective of a person standing directly in the middle of it, would you suggest drawing up a bunch of cubes and lines? Or would you go with the method you posted earlier?

[Malachi Maloney]

Galo~ Thanks, that's some good information, but you know how many lines I'd have to draw for the hundreds of buildings on the ground? A lot. I'd mess it up.
I think I'm going to approach the piece the same way a painter would as Craig suggested, because I have a few things working to my advantage that will help me out with any discrepancies I may have with perspective.
1) The city is going to be shown at night and will be all dark muddied tones except for some oranges/reds/yellows that will be coming from a fire in the center of the town.
2) The town is going to be seen from a dizzying perspective via the top of a huge tower much larger than the rest of the buildings in the town, making the details of the buildings on the ground virtually nil.

Actually the problem I'm having now is color selection and lighting. I'm not sure how far the fire would cast light onto the rest of the city. I mean, I know a big fire would cast tons of light if you were down close to it, but from hundreds of yards away, it might look like the tip of a burning cigarette. I'm not sure how to approach the lighting now, but I guess this isn't the right thread for those questions now is it?

Anyway, thanks for the assistance on perspective folks. It's much appreciated.

Malachi