Sijun Forums :: View topic - Building a new PC what hardware should I use?

Adamant · Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 4:38 pm

I want to build a new system from scratch and I'm looking for ideas on what hardware to use. I can't afford to use the absolute latest and hottest hardware so any pointers on getting good stuff for cheap would be great.

I'm thinking of building a dual processor system with at least a gig of RAM. I'd also like to use two video cards to run 2 monitors as I work alot in photoshop and dual display rocks. Eventually I'll be using this system to do full video capture and editing for college. I'll also be moving into 3D animation and design using the major 3D progs and heavy duty render software. As I said it doesn't have to be the hottest stuff around because eventually I'd like to set up 2 or 3 more systems like this one networked to process together.

Your thoughts on video cards, mother boards, processors etc would be greatly appreciated thanks.

jHof · Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 5:19 pm

Not to many apps take advantage of dual CPUs, but the ones you are getting into, most do.

You could buy a Radeon 8500(128meg) and have Dual monitor without needing two video cards installed. There is the Geforce 4 MX460 that has dual monitor support, but the Radeon is better. The GeForce MX series is pretty much junk, but for a good price.

Can't go wrong with Gig or more of RAM, especially for what you'll be doing.

I haven't read up on dual mobos in a while, but you could check out www.2cpu.com

Good luck...

[edit]Oh, and for price hunting, if you don't already know... www.pricewatch.com is your best bet. [/edit]

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: jHof ]

ZippZopp · Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:05 pm

i wouldn't go with dual processors...save the cash and spend it on something more useful for your system, if i were you, here's what i would go with

Abit KX7-333 Motherboard
Athlon XP 1900+
1 gig of Samsung DDR333 PC-2700 Ram
Radeon 8500 All in Wonder DV

thats what i'd go with if i were you. you could pick that up for a relatively good price and it will offer some great performance!

Dr. Bang · Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:35 am

yeah go with the Radeon BUT wait, next month, ATI releases a video card called Radeon 9700 that runs THREE Times faster than the fastest GeForce4 card (ti4600) [SIX TIMES FASTER THAN THE RADEON 8500)

Oh, Its gonna be cheaper than the GF4 once it just come out.

Catfish · Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:53 am

^ Uhh...I'd take those claims with a (very, very large) pinch of salt.
The Radeon 9700 is set to cost $399, which hardly makes it cheaper than the GF4's.
UT2k3 benchmarks have put it beating the GF4 Ti4600's by about 50%. I haven't seen anything on 2D performance yet.

For a budget machine, I'd go for a GF4 Ti4200. Very cheap, considering its performance, and excellent driver support. It comes with dual output, too.
Geforce support for 3D programs is generally good too. The Radeon has a rather poor track record, at least with Maya.
Skip the Geforce4 MX series. They're not true GF4's : they bear more resemblance to GF2s...

However, if you are serious about 3D work, you should be looking at the professional cards like Quadros or Wildcats.

Dual processors are difficult to justify if you're on a budget - the main performance gain you'll see would be while rendering 3D work.

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: Catfish ]

MadSamoan · Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 1:24 pm

I would recommend getting Intel CPU's. The AMD generate an insane amount of heat and it takes a really well designed case to dissipate the heat properly.

Catfish · Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:25 pm

^ On that note, I have a Cooler Master case, which is excellent. It's aluminium, so they can pack a lot more metal in for better heat dissipation, without adding extra weight.
It has dual fans at the front drawing air in, which is then sucked over the motherboard out the back & top. They're damn good cases - very well designed & solidly built.

balistic · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 7:40 am

quote:
Originally posted by MadSamoan:
I would recommend getting Intel CPU's. The AMD generate an insane amount of heat and it takes a really well designed case to dissipate the heat properly.

There's nothing insane about the heat generated by an Athlon, especially not compared to a P4. Get a good heatsink and you're fine, no funky case modifications needed.

While its true that the Athlon doesn't have a very good thermal fail-safe (meaning it will cook itself if the fan fails), the heat they produce is trivial to deal with.

Dr. Bang · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 7:48 am

yo Ball, my amd800 heatsink is noisy as hell, and it still hot. What should i do? What quiet cpu heatsink do you recommend me?

balistic · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:51 am

http://www.dansdata.com/coolercomp.htm

Boom.

zak · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:37 am

yo bang, i made myself a lill water heatsink, no noise, and works waaay better than fans just have to be careful that you make it properly. ps im gonna build me a new dual processor pc soon. gonna drop in two athlon 1900's and 1.5gigs of ram, (if it lets me ^__^) prolly get me two new montitors too. i cant wait, ive been waiting soo long, but yeah, if youre gonna do 3d stuff, dual processors supposed to work really well with it. also, you might want to think about what case youre gonna get, ive been recommended one of them big server boxes kinda things, you might want to look into that. make sure you get stuff that you can upgrade, because seeing that youre gonna spend a bomb on building it, you dont want to toss it out after a year or two cos its outdated. thats my two cents, ill keep you informed if i come across anything interesting

colonel kurtz · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 2:18 pm

I love building 'puters so I gotta add my 2 cents.
I'd go Athlon if you're trying to save money. The latest chips from Intel are screamin, but they'll cost you your first born.

I'd use the Asus A7V-333 ultra. A very nice/fast Mobo.
Use whatever CPU you can afford. 1800 or above.

The vidcard should be a 4200 or 4400 Geforce 4 w/ dual monitor support. I know a lot of peeps have been saying use ATI, but I'm still a little leery about the driver support.

As far as cooling goes I love everyithing that thermalake has put out. I'm not sure if the volcano 9 is out yet but it'd be worth the look. They have a very good balance between noise and cooling.

If you have the extra scrilla to burn i'd invest in a Lian-li PC70 case. Best case I've ever owned.

Oh and a gig o' ram.

Nuff said.

HaRdC0rePixxX · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:11 pm

hm. imo :
epox k7-333 motherboard + 2x512Mo DDR 133 CAS2
amd XP 1800@2000 + artic silver + thermaltake volcano7
GeForce4 Ti4200 64Mo (faster than the 128Mo version)
Antec case (one of the best tower u can get, easy access, trays for 5.25, etc) + Chieftec 340W alim.

fast, silent, dual-screen support, best quality/price u can find at the moment i guess.
i use it for both 3d and 2d appz. www.tomshardware.com
dont buy a P4, keep the money to buy RAM.
if u really need a bipro, look for the Athlon MP. it s one of the fastest under Maya.
but you better buy 2 pc rather than a bipro (bipro are way too expensive), one for rendering, the other for modeling (and end up building your own renderfarm).

Dr. Bang · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:41 pm

thnx Ball

DO NOT BUY THE GEFORCE4 TI4600, I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH BY THE NEW ATI R9700'S COMING NEXT MONTH AND IT BEAT GEFORCE4 TI4600 BY ALMOST 300% WOAHHHHH, THATS A HUGE LEAP! AND ITS 350$ HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, THE GF4 IS A BIT OVER PRICED

ATI DRIVER RULE NOW, I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT BUT THE LATEST CATALYST DRIVER FIXES EVERTHING, I HAVENT SEEN A BUG SINCE FEBUARY. BITE ME

wigin · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:27 am

bang ... im sorry but the whole ati driver thing is right.... I just recently upgraded my pc to amd 1800 xp with 1 gig of ram , new mobo and a ATI radeon 64 mb vid... The card isnt compatible with asus boards and the amd chip set =(. Had to change card to a GeForce 2. since i only do 2d and i dont do alot of gaiming the geforce 2 ti was good enough for me.

But that new ati card sounds good though. I hope it does work on any system...

Dr. Bang · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:32 am

quote:
Originally posted by wigin:
bang ... im sorry but the whole ati driver thing is right.... I just recently upgraded my pc to amd 1800 xp with 1 gig of ram , new mobo and a ATI radeon 64 mb vid... The card isnt compatible with asus boards and the amd chip set =(. Had to change card to a GeForce 2. since i only do 2d and i dont do alot of gaiming the geforce 2 ti was good enough for me.

But that new ati card sounds good though. I hope it does work on any system...

Ok, but why'd you called me a fat boy?

wigin · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:35 am

FAT BOY!!!!!!?????
heheheheheh =)

Catfish · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:26 am

Bang:
1) Stop with the shouting...

2) Got any evidence for these far-fetched claims of '3x faster than the geforce'?

3) NewEgg have a Ti4600 for $288. Everywhere I've seen quotes the ATI 9700 at $399. $399 is greater than $288. And, IMO, any of the consumer graphics cards over $200 are overpriced.

4) No driver problems? Ever try running a serious 3D modelling package on one?

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Catfish ]

Dr. Bang · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:18 am

1: NO!!!!!!!!!

2: 2.5 times faster, i rounded it off to 3 haha. Evidence? Yes, go to hard ocp, toms, anandtech and see.

3: When the GF4 Ti4600 came out, it isnt a whole lot ground breaking compare to the Radeon8500. Yet it was a lot more expensive than the ATI9700. The price of teh 9700 is going to go down futher quick when Nvidia relase their NV30.

4: Ati redo the the 9700 driver from the scrap. This has nothing to do with the old driver.Yes, i've work on 3d max and Maya and never experienced any driver problem.

Catfish · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 6:45 am

Yeah, way to take things out of context.

The 2.5x figure Bang's referring to occurs only when using 4x antialiasing. The GF4 takes a large performance hit when using 4x AA due to comparatively low memory bandwidth.

With AA switched off, the maximum figure I can find is 50% faster than the Geforce, when running Serious Sam.
It's still an impressively fast card, but that's a long way from the '300% FASTER!!!' that you were screaming about.

Dr. Bang · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:04 am

So who would want to turn graphics uglier to get SLOWER performance? 2.5 is still close enough to 3!

I exaggerated it cause i know that ATI is a good choice for him. Let say the average $ of this card cost 300, for $100 more, you get the next generation of videocard, that is still fast and advanced enough to compete with the NV30.

I don't understand why any one would buy a Ti4600 right now, when the R300 comes out.

Catfish · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:14 am

quote

Quote:

So who would want to turn graphics uglier to get SLOWER performance?

It's not slower absolute performance. It's slower performance relative to the GF4.

I have no idea what the figures are but let's say, without AA, the GF4 runs Quake3 at 100fps. The 9700 might do 120fps. So it's only 20% faster.

With AA, the GF4 might do 10fps, while the 9700 does 25fps. It's 250% faster. So the 9700 actually runs faster with AA turned on? Only relative to the GF4. In actuality, you've lost 95fps.

And besides, if we look at the original post:

quote

Quote:

I can't afford to use the absolute latest and hottest hardware so any pointers on getting good stuff for cheap would be great.

Sounds to me like the perfect candidate for a Ti4200, at �130.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Catfish ]

Dr. Bang · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:04 am

facts please, as far as i can see, the 9700 had a huge leap. Larger than the leap GF4 once had.

Oh If he got 200$ to spare, then go with the Ti4400 cause it can overlock better. 70$, you can get a cheap Radeon that can perform ALMOST as well as the GF4Ti series.

Dr. Bang · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:36 pm

well, its based on facts.

"The 2.5x figure Bang's referring to occurs only when using 4x antialiasing. The GF4 takes a large performance hit when using 4x AA due to comparatively low memory bandwidth.

With AA switched off, the maximum figure I can find is 50% faster than the Geforce, when running Serious Sam."

quote

Quote:

"...is absolute nonsense"

Okay there VideoCard Nazis! Adamant, go with the Radeon8500 if you want to spend under $100. You wont missout much. If you see an Nvidia GF4 that is close to $100 then buy it right away, i would too.

Catfish · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 11:18 pm

quote

Quote:

facts please, as far as i can see, the 9700 had a huge leap.

My figures weren't meant to demonstrate the actual speed of the 9700. They were meant to demonstrate that your comment ...
quote

Quote:

So who would want to turn graphics uglier to get SLOWER performance?

...is absolute nonsense.

Adamant · Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:51 am

Hey thanks everyone for all the great info. I know a lot more now. I really appreciate it.

I've got a second system that really needs upgrading so I'll more than likely supe it up to handle rendering. I'm in agreement about not using Dual CPU's. At the time I thought it was a good idea.

I guess while this thread is running so well, might I ask...

What is everyones dream system?

What would you guys absolutely kill for to have?

Thanks again.

Dr. Bang · Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:00 am

Catfish · Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2002 3:28 am

LOL

Hmmm...dream system? It would have to be a Wildcat II hooked up to dual flatpanel displays.

Hell, if we're being really excessive, why not have two of these.
Each running at a resolution of approximately 3500x2600. Mmmmm-mmmm.

Note the hefty price tag.

[EDIT: Oh, if you think that price tag is hefty, way back in March they were priced at $17,999...]

[ July 25, 2002: Message edited by: Catfish ]