[Lunatique]

How do you politely tell someone that their entire production is a waste of time?

There are quite many people out there who lack the ability/talent/vision to do big things, yet lack the self-realization and goes full speed ahead to tackle their dream. I commend their courage and dedication, but. . ..
http://www.evilclownanimation.com

It's like when I worked on Robot Of Mars back in 97--a full CG feature film financed independently. The director/writer had NO vision or talent, but his grandfather was connected to Hollywood and has $$ to burn. So, he hired 3D artists and concept artists and started production on his animated film. Every single person working at the studio had read the script, and we ALL thought it was an abomination, from concept to execution. Yet, not one single person dared to express that. The atmosphere at the studio was horrible. No joking around. No ideas being exchanged. Just artists working silently at their desk. And to top that off, the director/creator was arrogant and acted like he was Spielberg. Wonder where this clown is at now.

It's sad how underserving people get opportunities like that, turn out a meritless product, and end up discouraging more and more investors to invest in a startup production when true talent and vision DOES come along.

Another current production that gives me a bit of the same feeling is Delgo, A Heros Journey(http://www.delgo.com). Of course, Delgo is done by professionals, and the quality is actually quite nice, but what's missing is the emotional link to the audience. I downloaded the trailer and I was so disappointed. It was badly edited, and incredibly boring to watch. A good trailer MUST intrigue the viewer to be DYING to see the film. It failed by a long shot. And they actually showed a scene of the hero AFTER he completed the journey, saved the princess, and standing on the balcony with her so crowds of people can cheer! WTF was that all about? You NEVER, EVER give away an ending like that in a trailer. EVER.

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[Mindsiphon]

You don't tell them if you are working for them.

They may be a bunch of guys with little originality or creativity but that could change through trial and error. They will eventually realize that their current formula doesn't cut it.

[James Bradford]

Hey, I thought Delgo looked pretty darn cool! Well, I am trying to get an internship at Fathom next summer so maybe that's why. No really, I like it. Giving away the ending like that does suck, but it's seems like such a underground film.

mindsiphon makes a valid point. Watch and see what happens, they could learn. And if they don't, once the realization of failture occurs, they will know how to avoid it again.

[Pat]

"If I have seen farther than others, it is because I was standing on the shoulders of giants." - Sir Isaac Newton

Why would you want to tell them? Let them make what they're going to make. If it sucks, the rest of us will look all the more brilliant.

-Pat

[ July 03, 2002: Message edited by: Pat ]

[Sukhoi]

You say:
"I cannot be associated to this project any longer. I feel I'm not able to work on it, in a matter that would contribute to the projects and/or my own advancement."

Or if you want to stay on board:
"This simply doesn't work and I cannot take it seriously, why don't we do like this.?

I'm so clever!!!
I guess the hard part is to ACTUALLY say it, hehe!

Sukhoi

[Rinaldo]

lol @ that clown stuff.

Most of the time you can't do anything becasue the person making the bad calls is the big boss with an ego.
to give it some perspective tho...a lot of the time things go sort of nutral/lame because it's really hard to manage a vision with the large number of people involved in one of these things. I mean if you did have everyone saying "I want to do it this way" etc... half of it would be subjective oppinion that contradicts the next person. and you end up with a wishywashy end product that everyone kinda feels is weak..but doesn't get offended by.
this is the reason I want to make comic books, you got one or two people calling the shots in a visual narative medium=)

[Ian Jones]

I think it is a very inherent problem, considering the field we work in. We work for a clients vision. The buck stops there, quite literally.

Maybe it sucks, but we can do something about it. I see the only way out of it, is to either win the lotto and do art for fun. Or become extremely successful and throw your weight around for a change. It's the law of nature.

There may be a better way though.

I think the most important thing for me, as a graphic design student.. is not to become to obsessed with personal visions, personal opinions etc when working for clients. Leave that to personal work.

Apparently most students get out of college and find themselves in the deep end, doing stuff they don't have the vision for. surprised, even shocked that their college spoonfed ego's and decisions are now suddenly depreciated.

What I do believe is an important thing to change in this system is the balance between client vision / designers vision. If we can educate them in some way, that our vision involves different strengths than theirs (namely visual design strengths), because we are the professionals in the field... then we can hopefully attain a better working system. I stress balance, because I don't want to elevate either vision above another. I think that a clients vision is totally valid, I don't want to discount there status at all. What I think we need is recognition between both party's that a combined vision is necessary to keep everyone happy. As a designer I hope I can figure out a way to educate my clients about designs, there potentials, my vision for the client and the effectiveness of our combined strengths.

Something to chew on anyway...

[Gort]

In some ways I agree with Pat - let 'em go ahead and do it; in the end they will most likely see it for what it's worth. Chances are that if they are determined, speaking out will just be placed to the wayside and they'll do it anyway. In the end, assuming it fails (doesn't look like it would succeed), they'll get the message and perhaps try to polish up - if there's a next time.

[LoTekK]

i don't have any useful input on the matter, but i couldn't help but laugh at this part of the description of the project on their website:

quote

Quote:

soon to be cult classic

[surferboi]

i got some friends working on delgo so i wont touch that subject... but no offense you kinda sound like the kid who is jealous of the other kid whose parents bought him a brand new car, and your still working hard for yours.

ive seen your work and i respect your opinion. but theres projects like that all over not just in film but in architecture, car design, product design, program design. its pretty common.

infact me and the guys i work with get a real kick outta the stupid shit rich people put in their homes.. but they pay well so i dont mind.

now onto your question. you can say a lot of things politely while still ripping their heart out of their chest cavity. the real question is will your job security be effected, will it have any impact, and are they paying you.

[Lunatique]

I actually WANT to see Delgo succeed. I'm rooting for them because they could be the catalyst for another big change in the 3D animation market.

I was disappointed in Delgo BECAUSE I want to see them succeed. I didn't mention Delgo to bash on them, but to make a point of even people with talent and skills can be blind-sided by being too close to a project, where they can't see its weaknesses.

That other evil clown guy, hehehe... need I say it?

And as far as me sounding like a jealous kid--yes and no.

Yes, if I had a rich grandfather who financed a studio for me to direct my own creation, I can guarantee you with my life that my project won't suck ass like that Robot of Mars abomination. Man, even ILM couldn't have saved that POS screenplay and idea.

No, because if my stuff kicks enough ass, it WILL turn heads and people WILL be interested in it, with or with out a rich grandfather. That is my life's goal, and I'm working on it everyday. I will not stop, until the day I die.

[[666]Flat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatique:
No, because if my stuff kicks enough ass, it WILL turn heads and people WILL be interested in it, with or with out a rich grandfather. That is my life's goal, and I'm working on it everyday. I will not stop, until the day I die.

---

/me hands out cookie

[eyewoo]

For the hundreds or thousands of productions underway, only a very small percentage will hit the big league gauge... what are all the rest for? ... wellll... gotta say it... they're there to support the army of artists and programmers waiting for their chance.

So how do you tell the boss that his project sucks... I'm not so sure its a good idea to make mention... just put in the best work you can for the project and the best suggestions and ideas... Oddly, if everyone does that, then there is a chance that some good will come out of it...if nothing else, you have had a good exercise...