[Frank9z]

Damn Sad!


Forgive....Craig

It always turn out like this...........I have poison this week with this thread and everything was going fine!

You were posting like before( good times back then) inspiration was in the air...I have not once painted since then until few days ago when i saw your beautiful artwork again. To bad some of us can't get pass the fact of life.


Nothing is free.........Only the will to do it.

[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: Frank9z ]

[Frank9z]

Oh yeah this just came to mind in cause i wasn't that clear before. Think of it as this!! It's like a puzzle, we have to find the pieces lost in this forum. and introduce them to one another to bring together this beautiful knowledge of the past to the future.

[HawkOne]

A valiant idea indeed ...

However, there is one minor thing ... 99% of the newbees have HUGE problems reading any text over 30 words or so ... They are more likely to just ask again and again, "What is the magic trick ???" and whatever you reply in good faith, they will still come to the same irrational conclusion, " If I download the latest cracked version of the coolest software around AND get my greasy little hands on one of those delicious Wacom tablets, I'll be sorted, I'll be an instant Titan" (of whom they have of course never heard)

Rinse and repeat as neccesary ...

[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: HawkOne ]

[Gort]

Damn sonny - that's alot of writin'

You must be unemployed.



just kiddin - ya know?

[Frank9z]

Not really, Hawkone wrote most of it! hehe
and the rest i just gather from past post. All Different users. Guess my idea ain't all that good eh? ack!

[oDD]

it's a great idea.

i consider myself a newbie and i don't say things like "could you give me some links to cool tutorialz". When I'm in job and there is no work for me, all i can do is sit in front of comp. So i'm browsing the archives of sijun. Reading old stuff. (it's cool to read something like "hello i'm 16 years old and just starting to draw" or something like that and that stuff is from 1999 so I'm checking that guys website and see what he has do since then). But anyway it's hard to find something usefull quickly. This board holds alot of knowledge and it would be great if we could collect all that great stuff in some easier to browse form.

So we should make some web site where few people would copy,paste the valuable information from past and present.

[Farley13]

I agree this would be a very good idea. The text you posted is already a pretty reference as it is, it can only get better

[Dr. Bang]

bUt I wAnT TuToRiAlZ!!!! LOL!

[pixelsoldier]

st0p b3ing such a n00b BaNGz0r!

I'm teh sexy paint3r with a... attention span ran out.

[Trance-R]

Writing a Art Bible now are we? heh heh.
Good job Frank!
This is great! (I skimmed it) =�
Read this on my PDA I will.

Maybe you could put this in the forum FAQ!

[Mangled Alecto]

great job

you should sell it !

[spooge demon]

I don't think selling it is a very cool idea. And it might be nice to include the authors of the information.

[Frank9z]

Damn i didn't mean to offend you Craig or any other Artist. That selling thing was a joke! and your right, i should of wrote the names of the person (here i'll do you one better i'll take it down) To hard to go back and remember who wrote what...So i guess that's the best thing to do. Sorry Guys and Craig a lot of stuff written is from you. I apologize for taking that information with out permission. As well as everyone else. Hope you all enjoy the idea, maybe some else can make it better next time and make it the right way as well.

Guess the nightmare is not over for you Spooge. Sleep, Don't wake up!

[pbechard]

pixelsoldier you ignorant slut :P (just kidding, needed to put an snl quote in there somewhere, i like thier style! ). I’m sure craig is as pissed as any other famous artist who has had their own style copied/altered/revised over the past ten thousand years. And just because an artist is dead does not make it anymore right. So stop being such a hypocrite (I am sure sometime in your life you copied someone else’s style to express yourself.). im sure im one of the younger people on this board, but im still amazed at how immature some people can be. they get so caught up in kissing someones ass that they cant tell if what they are doing is important or even right.

It seems any everybody except the actual artist is trying to preserve his uniqueness in the digital art world. I’m sure craig would never come on the board and start yelling at people to try and make them stop imitating his style (if he did id probably post another flame ;p). Its like companies like Sun Microsystems trying to patent their shade of purple. Modern society pisses me off. I’m going to go move under the sea.
</drunkenrant>

ps. I understand craig’s right not to help people achieve the same level of expertise in his style. That’s up to him. But remember. Imitating someone’s style does not equal copying someone’s work. As long as your work is your own and it expresses what you want it to express (like that talent less worhal guy), its all just art. So next time someone comes on and asks for help to create their own work using spooge’s style or picasso’s or monet’s or whoever. Either help them or shut up. Chances are that you too are going to be dead in less than fifty years. Stop being such a wet blanket

personally if i ever created a style/method/medium that lets me express myself in a way that has noone has really done before. I would hunt down anyone who tried to use it inorder to express themselves in this new way, and i would kill them. and then i would kill thier family and molest thier pets. of course. thats just me ;p (its not that im afraid that they might get better at the style than me, or that by letting them use it they might have a positive effect on someone or something with it. or any anti progressive thought in my head. its because im really a selfish prick) .. and as i already pointed out. craig doesint do this. so no offence to him. *smoooch*. its mainly at people with your views pixelsoldier

i would rant some more about the evolution of artistic styles and the importance of it. but ill leave that for another day.

btw: im not saying that any of this is correct. its just my opinion.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: pbechard ]

[MadSamoan]

I think if people would read Loomis, Bridgeman, Vanderpoel, Vilppu, Schmid, the Famous Artists Course series and instead of trying to find a magic bullet, spend more time applying the knowledge from these books in the form of drawing from life, they'd see much more progress and self discovery.

[pbechard]

MadSamoan: i dont think people are looking for a 'magic bullet'. As in most styles. apart from the actual creative process. there are just a series of systematic steps that that causes your creation to appear in a paticular way. If you were to go up to your art teacher and ask them 'how do I shade like you?'. apart from that one time, i doubt they will tell you 'stop looking for a magic bullet and go back to your corner and read'. in my experiance they usualy tend to show you these systematic processes. not that iv ever actually taken an art class.

i dont think people are asking about craig's creativity. iv yet to see a thread that says 'teach me how to draw one of craigs gladiators'. i think people are intersted in the systematic process. like which brushes to use. what order should the paint be layed down and so on.

but i guess i do agree that researching this style in this manner is pretty useless. seems that not many people actually know the processes. and from what i gathered from the responses to the limited threads on this board i have read, craig isint the type of person who shares these paticular magic beans ;p (using a magic bean analogy along side the magic bullet analogy is probably a bad idea ) just imagine how much better someone could be if they could get the chance to sit behind one of the painting greats and see them create something from scratch. I think people are just askings for that chance.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: pbechard ]

[pixelsoldier]

My beef isn't with "copying artists". I suppose if English was a language you could adequately comprehend, you would have seen that.

It bothers me that SO many threads are created about Craig. I'm sure it bothers him as well. As most of us who have been here a while know by now, he likes to stay relatively low-key.

[pbechard]

ouch. that cut pixel.. that cut deep. let me summerize a piece of what i said. your post is basically against people coming here and asking for help learning someone else's paticular style (Unless your post was actually a post in support of people seeking help concerning styles in disguise, deez fansea angleesh wohrds kan bee triquy). i think you have no real understanding of the issue. and the only reason why you posted was to kiss up to him. as for your second statement. you obviously did'nt read what i said carefully. but its nice that you assume what other people want, and act out on these assumtions (Somewhat reminiscent of the crusades no?). Personally I would'nt fight anyone else's fights unless they ask me to. so mabey you should go email craig and ask him if he really wants you to come and yell at people for asking about his style. you might be suprised. (or mabey i might be)

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: pbechard ]

[Evifnagol]

"Nothing comes from nothing."
-Socrates

"Nothing's shocking."
-Jane's Addiction

[Gort]

What is the purpose of this forum? It's my impression / opinion that we are all here to not only talk and discuss but more importantly to learn and share what we know with one another.

I find it amusing that some folks here express a "purest" attitude and over protectiveness - the same attitude that can be encountered in the fine art forums (the occasional disdain towards digital art, concept art, etc that one finds from the traditional media purests - my old college illustration professor being one of them).

I agree that every talented artist has had to have started out by seeing the work of someone else and trying to learn in such a manner through emulation, but through maturity and self gratification, what artist would seriously try to make something of themselves using someone elses style, etc? I love Van Gogh; I like to paint like Van Gogh, but I sure as hell am not going to create stuff in Vincent's style and put it out there for all to see; people would see right through me!

I have to agree with pbechard; I honestly don't think people are looking for a "magic bullet"; people want to learn how to use the digital medium. You can still learn the fundementals from traditional schooling and tutelage, but there is new ground to learn from the new medium - the digital medium; software (and the relative hardware) has created new methods and processes, and aspiring artists just want to know how.

As it's often been said in automobile racing, "it aint the car but the person drivin' it that will determine the outcome", or "it isn't the camera but the person taking the picture" that makes the difference.

Now let's all have a beer...scotch...Patron anejo...whatever.


By the way Graig, you got that yard work done yet?

[roundeye]

its fine to ask how somebody did something. thats asking about technique. an end result that your not quite sure how they achieved it and youre curious. you take that info and incorporate it into you knowledge base and move on. its another thing to bite thier process exclusively. ive seen it. craig has seen it and railed against it in the past. he was more sharing before he started to see clones. clones = bad for buisness, and your own style comes from your own struggles.

the adoration of him here is surpassed only by the adoration of noriko on my board. only people dont ask noriko how they can be as pretty as her

[pbechard]

Just to play devil's advocate a bit more, Tom are you saying if I gave you a old Hyundai pony beater that maxs out at 25mph going down hill, you could beat me in a Ferrari f50 (I am assuming your a better driver than i, because I don’t drive)? the "car" has an effect on the outcome. Artists with knowledge of the processes have a definite advantage over someone who does not, not matter how creative that person might be. right? ;p

roundeye: i dont think biting someone else's style is a bad thing. im sure if you think back to any major art movement. The first person who reacted against the current norm was copied by countless people to come. as for it being bad for business? sad but true. its a fact of life, im sure as we all learned in business class. successful monopolies are self destructive. what does this mean for craig? that someday someone might get so good at his current style that it will force him to get even better? mabey expand (as i see him already doing). such a shame. I guess even dios Mullins isint immune to the laws of economics. who would have thought it.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: pbechard ]

[roundeye]

you say it as if its a sad fact of life yet you promote it. if you feel uncontrolably compelled to bite another artists style, so be it. be the first or the best, right? better make sure youre the best, and not some second rate, cheaper, unoriginal fake. fun stuff! "i can give you a 'spooge' at half the price'. fuck that. thats a leech and thats lowest form of commercial art.

taking all the elements you like from all the artists you like, and making something NEW is another story. more akin to good old fashion hip hop.

[jr]

Roundeye is right
This reminds me of those frank frazetta rip off artists. And how they make immature sophomoric explanations about how they�ve taken frazetta�s style and surpassed it within a few years.

[pbechard]

jr. as long as they are creating thier own original art. and i use the word art in the broadest sense possible. is it really right to tell them that what they are doing is wrong? how do you think art historians in 200 years will view them? i would guess as mediocer artists of this paticular style. are thier efforts really that bad? isint there a chance that one of them might actually create something worthwhile or even mabey better? just a few questions for you to think about.

roundeye: i totaly agree with you. someone saying. "ill sell you a spooge for half price" is pretty much wrong. (unless spooge is carging too much, i buy monet recreations, never the real thing.... yet ). but it isint wrong for someone to say. "ill sell you one of my own original paintings done in early neo-spoogism style for half the price of a spooge original." ;p

just look at the art market today. someone will sell an original impressionist painting for 1/100000000 the price of an original piece by monet. is that person a leech and the lowest form of art?

i also agree with you that if you were just to leech of his style. never try anything new or expand what you do. that person may need to be shot. but ill take that on a case by case basis based on how good thier work is

in no way do i support straight copying of other peoples work with no creative process in between.
example: a person paints an exact copy of the mona lisa and sells it as his own work and not a copy. unacceptable. a person paints the mona lisa smoking a joint and sells it as his own work. sure why not.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: pbechard ]

[roundeye]

you edit, i edit.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: roundeye ]

[Evifnagol]

ripped from a prev. post:

In as much as I hate to add my voice to the cacophony here...
I personally think any kind of "tutorial" or lesson is great. I personally thank my lucky stars for the day I saw Dhabih's site three years ago. His tutorial inspired me to buy my own stylus and take what used to be okay-ish pencil drawings on random sheets of paper and turn them into colorful expressions of my personal angst. Inspiration and technique are all that seperate the guy on the street from those that call themselves "artists." You don't have to teach (or post) your style to anyone... there are just a lot of folks out there eager to express themselves, yearning to make their art as beautiful (or dark) as those they emulate. Some may not be flattered by this, and it is up to them to guard their secrets and reasons. Picasso and Matisse were rivals until they shared their views. They became honored friends.
My son likes to trace images from his comics. I encourage it -- some day he may try drawing on his own, some day he may paint a masterpiece. Who cares, as long as he's got a need to express himself, he can have every trick I've ever known.
If you want to horde your knowledge, feel free. If you want to educate, speak up. If you want to learn, ask.

[pbechard]

quote:

---

Originally posted by roundeye:
they arent. thats the fucking point. soak it up.

---

roundeye. it seems that we are argueing the same point. as i said countless times throughout my posts. before you posted. that not creating your own original work is wrong. read my posts before argueing with me. but the people asking for help understanding spooge's process ARE creating thier own work. thats my main point over all these posts. soak that up.

[Lunatique]

pbechard- I'm with roundeye and jr on this matter.

We have SEEN with our own eyes the result of of Craig being generous and helpful. There were artists who ended up working in style IDENTICAL to Craig. These guys had the talent and the skill in the first place, and after learning about Craig's techniques in detail, they copied his signature style EXACTLY, stroke for stroke, even down to the the subject matter. They became a threat to his business, and that is just low.

Thank God Craig didn't leave sijun due to bad experiences like that.

We don't blindly kiss Craig's ass. We respect him and we love the guy. You haven't been here long enough to have witnessed just how generous, kind, patient, selfless, and inspiring this man has been throughout sijun's history.

Yes, we are protective of him, and he more than deserves that love and respect.

Deal with it.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[roundeye]

its fun to use deleted replies to deleted comments.

no were not.