[gLitterbug]

I�m painting on this Picture the last days and it is supposed to be a present. That means I wanna have it printed in best quality and biggest size possible.

But I have no clue of Print yet. I mean sure I can print it on my HP 1220c, but I more thought of a long-lasting higher quality print. I asked a local print service some stuff, but he said if I only need 1 or 2 prints I should ask elsewhere. I have yet to do that, but I thought some people over here have probably quite some experience with printing digital images they could share with me.

Things I�d like to know are what type of print makes sense (digital offset 4c, laser 4c??) for the picture. What paper to use and what special stuff (UV-Protection,...) makes sense or is needed.
How big could that image be printed without quality loss (eg. Pixelizing, Blurring)? It�s painted at 2500x3500@600dpi in RGB Mode, thats another point, what mode�s are required for print and how does one make sure that the color and stuff is the way I see it on my pc at home?

Sorry if that sounds a bit dumb, but I actually didn�t have much contact with Print till now.

Another question I�m interested in is what people over here think about prints of digital images and how much they are "worth" in comparison to traditional painted originals. For example if there is only one print of a digital image that is hand-signed by the creator - do you think that is like a "real" original then or you think it�s worth shit?

thx for replying

[Twice]

eh, well, I might not me much helpfull, but I use the colour copyer at school. The quality is greate...

*I always have a resolution on 300 dpi.
Bigger size, better quality.

*CMYK is best for printing. Don't know why, but there must be a reason that everything is printed in CMYK...

Not much help, but good luck mate.

[sfr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by andskj:
*CMYK is best for printing. Don't know why, but there must be a reason that everything is printed in CMYK...

---

If you can invent additive RGB inks, I'm sure you'll be a millionaire in no time
Saffron

[Drawnblud]

I would say if you have a "Kinkos" near you, that would be your best and cheapest bet. I have never printed anything poster size by them, but they have the best printers, scanners and copiers for the average joe.
And no, I don't work for them, hehe.....

[Loki]

hmm ... ever thought if there's just even one "Kinko's" in Austria, drawnblud, or that glitterbug knows what it is???? think international ...

[kinko's is a chain of copy/print-shops in the US, doing everything from simple copies, business cards, invitations to large laminated digital prints and whatever else - some are openj 24/7]

glitter: how much do you wanna spend? because you could go to a pre-press house and have them make a 'chromaline' - color proff or a similar (fairly expensive, but nice) print proof ... good large prints are nearly always expensive ... sigh

[Anthony]

imagestation.com or ofoto.com are good.

[Jin]

Assuming you mean 2500 x 3500 pixels, 600 ppi (pixels per inch) since dpi refers to printing not to image resolution, at 600 ppi, your image would print:

4.167 x 5.833 inches

If you changed the resolution (ppi) to 300 ppi, it would print:

8.333 x 11.667 inches

If you changed the resolution (ppi) to 240 ppi, it would print:

10.417 x 14.583 inches

Depending on the image, some artists say their prints are nice even at 240 ppi.

300 ppi is pretty standard working resolution (ppi, or pixels per inch) for an image going to print, to retain smooth color transitions and prevent pixelated edges on curves and angles.

Some printers (the printing machine itself) convert RGB to CMYK automatically, so you don't need to do that yourself. The best bet is to talk to the print shop folks to find out what you need to do, if anything, to prepare your image for print.

The reason printing is done in CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black) is that RGB is screen color (light) and CMYK is pigment. It's not possible to get all of the colors RGB provides when printing in CMYK. The color range is not as wide in CMYK, so sometimes color tweaking has to be done in a program like Photoshop prior to printing, to make the print colors come as close as possible to what you see on your screen. This is another reason you'll do best talking to the print shop first.

Kinko's is not reliable for consistent color as they don't keep their printers "tuned up" as carefully as a more high-end print shop would. Still, I've had some reasonably good results from Kinko's. I just can't get the same image printed the same way on two different occasions. They're cheap enough, though, that it wouldn't hurt much to try them.

I have never tried ezprints, but I'm told they a good job and their pricing is reasonable (I don't think they fall into the high-end category, though, or that's my impression).
http://ezprints.mye-pix.com/TakeTour.asp

Good luck,

[Jin]

Assuming you mean 2500 x 3500 pixels, 600 ppi (pixels per inch) since dpi refers to printing not to image resolution, at 600 ppi, your image would print:

4.167 x 5.833 inches

If you changed the resolution (ppi) to 300 ppi, it would print:

8.333 x 11.667 inches

If you changed the resolution (ppi) to 240 ppi, it would print:

10.417 x 14.583 inches

Depending on the image, some artists say their prints are nice even at 240 ppi.

300 ppi is pretty standard working resolution (ppi, or pixels per inch) for an image going to print, to retain smooth color transitions and prevent pixelated edges on curves and angles.

Some printers (the printing machine itself) convert RGB to CMYK automatically, so you don't need to do that yourself. The best bet is to talk to the print shop folks to find out what you need to do, if anything, to prepare your image for print.

The reason printing is done in CMYK (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, and Black) is that RGB is screen color (light) and CMYK is pigment. It's not possible to get all of the colors RGB provides when printing in CMYK. The color range is not as wide in CMYK, so sometimes color tweaking has to be done in a program like Photoshop prior to printing, to make the print colors come as close as possible to what you see on your screen. This is another reason you'll do best talking to the print shop first.

Kinko's is not reliable for consistent color as they don't keep their printers "tuned up" as carefully as a more high-end print shop would. Still, I've had some reasonably good results from Kinko's. I just can't get the same image printed the same way on two different occasions. They're cheap enough, though, that it wouldn't hurt much to try them.

I have never tried ezprints, but I'm told they a good job and their pricing is reasonable (I don't think they fall into the high-end category, though, or that's my impression).
http://ezprints.mye-pix.com/TakeTour.asp

Good luck,

[eyewoo]

Not sure whether this is myth or fact... but from my experience it doesn't much matter whether an image is CMYK when printing to an ink jet printer such as the one's Epson manufacture. I use the Epson 2000p archival 6 ink printer (CcMmYK) and have never converted my RGB images to CMYK before printing. It is true that the colors using archival (pigmented inks) are not as bright as their less permanent inks, but the results are totally OK for my work.

Epson has ink jet color printers that are very inexpensive - $49.00... hard to believe. I've had no experience with their $49.00 printer, but I've also not had a bad experience with their printers. I've used 6 or 7 of them over the last several years.

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

[sfr]

eyewoo, when an RGB image is printed, the printer driver does the CMYK conversion before sending the image to the printer. I guess the point of doing it in Photoshop would be that you'll have a better idea of what it's going to look like, and probably it used to be the case that printer drivers did a worse conversion than PS (RGB->CMYK conversion is a fairly simple mathematical operation, but I'm not surprised if PS adds some tricks of its own).

Saffron

[eyewoo]

Saffron... understood. The downside to working in CMYK in PShop is a hefty additional need for RAM. For example, an RGB file that takes up about 180 megs of RAM upon opening will take up about 230 megs of RAM on opening after being converted to CMYK. -- aproximately 50 megs more. I'm often working with files that take up over a gig of RAM, making the difference seriously significant.

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

[Jin]

If your image is 2000 x 3500, 600 pixels per inch (again, not dpi as dpi, or dots per inch, is a term related to printing, not to how many pixels are in each linear inch of the image), and you print it at 100%, it will be:

2000 divided by 600 pixels per inch = 3.33 inches wide

3500 divided by 600 pixels per inch = 5.83 inches high

or...

3.33 x 5.83 inches

It's that size when printed as a result of the dimensions in pixels plus the resolution you chose (600 pixels per inch).

If you change the number of pixels per inch to 300 instead of 600, the printed image will be doubled in size:

2000 divided by 300 pixels per inch = 6.67 inches wide

3500 divided by 300 pixels per inch = 11.67 inches high

or...

6.67 x 11.67 inches

While an image may seem huge on your screen, due to the number of pixels in its width and height, the resolution (number of pixels per inch) that you specify, in combination with the image's dimensions in pixels, determines the printed image size (given that you're printing at 100% to get the best image quality).

As demonstrated above, to get an idea of what size your printed image will be, divide it's pixel width and height by the resolution number (number of pixels per inch, i.e. 600 ppi or 300 ppi).

If the image was created at a certain size with a certain resolution (number of pixels per inch), that will limit how large the final print can be and still retain good image quality.

[gLitterbug]

Thx again Jin, I know whatcha mean, but IF I print it at 100% and the size you said, I loose all detail as I stated above. That�s what gets me confused. I mean it SHOULD look best in 100% but it is WAY to small and shows no details and stuff. SO I don�t know exactly why that is, maybe my printer or whatever.
I printed a part of the image again at 700% and only about then you start to see some pixels.
I hope you know now what gets me confused and that I actually know how big it SHOULD be printed and stuff. But it just doesn�t seem to work that way in real life

[gLitterbug]

Thank you all for the great replies.

I tried printing out the image now several times on my HP 1220c, but I�m confused even more now :/

When I print it in Photoshop at 300dpi (only option I have, HP is a bit strange with their PhotoREt thingy. You can turn it off when using Photopaper for images with 600dpi or higher, but still you can�t choose higher dpi, maybe they make that automagically?) it prints very small, as Jin said in 3.333 x 5.833 inches (image is 2000x3500, not 2500 x3500 as I stated above )and it has NO detail in the print at all. Even if I print it on a full A3 sheet (thats 270% Pshop says) it doesn�t have the brush stroke details in it. I tried to print a part of the image at 400% and only then brush strokes start to appear, but it still isn�t blurred or pixelated, but looks good.

Now I�m really confused. Why does Pshop want to print it so small when all details are lost? Is it the printers fault? Am I doing something wrong with the settings?
Another thing is that if I choose another type of paper than the normal type (I use HP Professional Brochure & Flyer Paper, 2-sided Gloss for the prints and used this setting too) I get ugly results, everything is blurred like hell and darker colors aren�t dark but alot brighter than they should be and aren�t consistent but look blotchy. Why is that? HP Print software shitty? Or is that supposed to be that way?

I�ll write an email to a printservice as soon as I know how big the image can be printed, as the sizes Jin mentioned are what Photoshop tells me, but at those sizes results aren�t what I want em to be, I mean I want to see the brush strokes in the Print. It should be as big as possible without blurring or pixelating, how much would that be?

Hey Loki, what is that chromaline color proof? Or a print proof at all?? Know any good pre-press houses in Austria? I looked at digitaldruck and I think about writing them an email with some questions. What do you mean when you say "expensive"?

Thank you all for the help you already gave me and please excuse my complete utter dumbness in regards of printing

[Christian +]

Hey gLitterbug, as for your other question

quote

Quote:

Another question I�m interested in is what people over here think about prints of digital images and how much they are "worth" in comparison to traditional painted originals. For example if there is only one print of a digital image that is hand-signed by the creator - do you think that is like a "real" original then or you think it�s worth shit?

I kinda thought about it a bit cos my elder brother is gettin a new house and I proposed to offer him some paintings for a present ( traditional paintings, oils on canvas...) and he said that he wanted me to make some digital ones on Painter....... that's when the debate started!
he keeps telling me how great they would look if printed on canvas with 6 colors printers.....
Although I don't beleive that it will have flashy colors and pigments like real oil paint has, but let's say it would, I don't think it has the same value, first of all cos u know it's not unique, and that u can print as many copies as u like, second, it doesn't have the embossing real paint will creat on a canvas thus giving it more of an industrial feel.
Now u wouldn't buy a machine made and hand made product for the same price,.... would u?
still i'm gonna give it a shot to see if i'm right. If it looks good I'll tell u about it.

[Farley13]

I'm supprised no-one mentioned the print preview thing: go to Print options, that should be what it looks like. I've gotten full A4 stuff@ 300dpi with it perfectly. If that's what you've been refuring to w/ 100% and 700% pardon me!

The 100% loss of detail seems like a limit of the medium, a good gloss paper used at a fairly reputable printer should keep the detail.

see you,

Farley13

[Blind]

This won't help gLitterbug now, but... what if, before you painted the image, you created the new .psd using inches as your measurement, irrespective of resolution? I mean, if you specifiy when you create the file that it's to be 16�20" and set the resolution to whatever you need, it's going to be 16�20" when you're done no matter what, right? Then there's no ambiguity about the size of the print if you should decide you want a printed copy. Or am I missing something? I've never tried to print anything digital and always assumed that's why PS gave you the options to specify the type of metric when creating the file.