[The_Pixel]

Hi
I've been using Photoshop for about a year but not spent for about a year and i am kinda ok with it (I am still trying to learn how to paint) I love digital art and I like to have a graphic design career in the future. But what I like to know is, is it worth the time and effort I'll be puting in to it? Should I start taking class on photoshop?
My main question is how much will does a professional graphic designer(would u consider "eyewoo"'s work be professional? I think it's really good) earn in a year?
I also want to study 3d animation/modelling too. Do u think it's possiple to earn anaverage of $50,000US a year?
May I ask roughly about how much u earn, especialy eyewoo?

Thank you for any reply

[eyewoo]

Hi there... hmmmm.... this will clearly come as a surprise to you. I make virtually no money off my artwork. So far it is a total labor of love.

I did make a bunch of money a couple years ago doing all the background artwork for a computer game - "Gilbert Goodmate and the Mushroom of Phungoria" - but since then it's mainly been website design.

I make my living designing website UIs and occasional illustration jobs, mainly cartoons. Over the last five years my income has ranged dramatically, from the 30Ks to the 60Ks.

So is it worth it... gotta look within yourself for the answer to that important question...

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: eyewoo ]

[The_Pixel]

Hi Eyewoo,
U scared me, I didn't expect a reply that quick. :-)

Now that u're here I like to know how long it took u to get this good?
And do u think that working with 3d pics would earn a better income?

Thanks :-)

[Gort]

Whoa there!!

It sounds to me as if you need to really assess just what you really want and where you wanna go. Graphic design is more likely to put you in an immediate position of making money; it's a field that is typically defined by the commercial endeavours of visual communication, so there's a good range of concentrations to focus on (branding, corporate identity, UI design, packaging, product design, etc.); furthermore, work is plentiful all over the place, but overall you have to want to do it, because if it isn't in your heart then you will not be centered, and that can lead to intense unhappiness.

My own personal experience in llustration and painting was a career as a storyboard artist and production illustrator, but no one wanted to outsource to me in Atlanta; it was always "move to Southern California, move here". That was a sacrifice I didn't want to make, but if I had then perhaps my career might have turned out differently.

Luckily for me I like both and have been able to be flexible.

So stew over your personal directives. You're doing the right thing by posting and asking for feedback; take it further and try to confer personally with professionals in all fields.

Follow your bliss!!

[The_Pixel]

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the reply, Can u please tell me when u started working with photoshop? and show me some of ur work? so I have a breif idea of how good I should be?

Thanks Alot

[Twice]

I think you are kinda off field about the whole graphic design and photoshop thingy. I'm doing graphic design, but 80% of the time goes to thinking, and planing. You can't just start off in photoshop making a logo when a company has put 100 000 dollars in the maikng of their profile. Graphic design is about communication. If you make a logo for a tele company that looks like it should have been for a beakery, you have faild. And not many sucseeds in the business if they don't attend school. There is so much to learn. And it is not possible to learn on you're own.

I would say that you should figure out what you want to do, and if it is graphic design, you really should go to school.....

[glody]

yea....photoshop really has nothing to do with design in its self...its just a tool like anything else is...if your a bad designer photoshop isnt gonna help you become one....you have to learn good design and bad design...if you are good at design photoshop is just another tool to help with that...like adobe indesign or quark xpress etc.

you have to have the heart to go down the graphic design path...you have to like doing it...its alot o work...specially in school....

[[666]Flat]

quote:

---

Originally posted by eyewoo:
Hi there... hmmmm.... this will clearly come as a surprise to you. I make virtually no money off my artwork. So far it is a total labor of love.

---

And I am not surprised at all. Two words regarding the question : PRIORITY & PREFERENCES.

[el scoono]

I have a somewhat jaded point of view on the subject, but I'll offer my opinion anyway.

First off, having knowledge of various software programs IS essential to functioning as a professional designer, but NEVER confuse it with design itself. Design is a about thinking, creating, communicating and problem solving (graphic design did exist before computers!). Most great designs start as simple thumbnail sketches on a piece of paper. Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark Xpress are all just tools used to bring that idea to fruition. Many medium to large sized design firms have people who are hired solely to handle the production aspects of the work, so the designers don't have to be computer experts.

Anyway, back to your question. I found that graphic design wasn't worth it for me. I tried several jobs, all in the $36,000 per year range. That's in New York City (expect less almost anywhere else)! So the salary was pretty pathetic. Also the hours were insane, I had to put in 12 or 13 hour days on top of my commute from NJ.

On top of all that, it was very difficult to find a firm that would allow any sort of creativity. Most designs ended up being destroyed by pushy clients, marketing people, etc. Sooooo, I gave up the design thing and I'm looking for other work. I'm thinking of trying freelance illustration on the side once I get a decent portfolio together.

Just in case you're wondering, I went to the Pratt Institute, worked my ass off and graduated with honors, awards... you know, the whole deal. It kind of seems like a waste now. All the high-minded ideals that you learn in school get lost in the working world. I quickly found that being an artist matters very little in commercial design. It seemed to be more about who could crank out the most crappy work in least amount of time.

Wow! That was pretty a pretty harsh assessment of the graphic design field! I'll stand by my opinion, although I'm sure there are many people who have positive stories about working in commercial art.

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: el scoono ]

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: el scoono ]

[HawkOne]

Hear hear ...

el scoono speaks the truth ...

It is strange to read someone who has come to the same conclusions as myself ... and seems to have had many of the same experiences ... and derived the same conclusions ...

As for myself, I went through the whole thing too, graduating with honors and all that (BA(Hons) in Visual Communication, with a bit broader focus than a regular Graphic Design course), just to experience some schmuck of a client who wanted to use his own shitty pictures (unskillfully taken with his own shitty compact camera developed and printed in the shittiest 30 minutes print shop in town) in the design because stock photos are too expensive ... and he wanted it like so ... and like so ... extremely frustrating to say the least ... as you may understand ... Graphic design is only about design when you are doing your own stuff ... if you are working for someone else ... you will often be forced to produce crap ... and needless to say, it is extremely frustrating and unfulfilling ...

Unless you are among a very lucky handful designers to end up in a place with art directors who screen out all those idiot businessmen/women who for some reason think they can take decisions about typefaces, colors, design ideas and visual communication in general, you will be banished to the same grey zone as so many before you who may be asking themselves : "Did I waste all that time and money learning how to do something right, just to work ungodly hours when my friends come home for dinner at 6, who earn twice as much as I do and have people trust their skill and let them do their work in peace ?"

The answer to myself was something like this: " ... Nope I didn't waste anything, but instead of working for some company who will shit on my pride in my work for anyone who will pay for the pleasure of manipulating someone with a higher education than themselves, I will start my own business, and try to make it on my own, revel in the pleasure of telling clients that I'm not interested in their crap, that my way is the way we work, take it or leave it, and the ability to directly turn down those frequent (easily detectable) trolls who come asking you to work first and then they'll pay later (of course if they pay at all, it will be a year later, after you kidnapped their Ferrari ... heheh )."

(cut from another article at A List ApartUsability Experts are From Mars, Graphic Designers are From Venus)
"Gene Na (co-founder of Kioken): "We had to fire Sony the other week. They weren't listening to us, so we let them go. We actually had to get rid of Bad Boy [Entertainment] in the beginning, but they straightened up and came back. So did Sony. What the client sometimes doesn't understand is the less they talk to us, the better it is. We know what's best."

Here is some hilarious reading from A List Apart, where web designers talk about these very issues ... and how they try to handle it.
Cheaper Over Better: Why Web Clients Settle for Less
The Client Did It: A WWW Whodunit

There is more to read there and elsewhere about fellow frustrated designers who need to tell about their problems ... and it's somehow fulfilling to read about others with similar experiences ... sort of like having someone to share your frustration with ...

Come on, group hug everyone ... heheh ..

Here is a very compressed summary of work as a designer, modified slightly from Joe Clarks original. (A contributing writer at A List Apart)

"Those who �get� design create it. Those who do not get design are put in charge."

Art/Design IS still fun though, when people do what they are supposed to do, trust your trained skills/expertise ... unfortunately though, it's just that it hardly ever happens ... for most of us ...

Three good things about being formally trained in design are:
1. You learn a lot of nice stuff.
2. That having a piece of paper as proof of your skill is a clear advantage when applying for jobs.
3. The fact that it is not too hard to diversify into a zillion different related occupations, in my case 3D design for multimedia and animation ... your trained design skills will always be an advantage ..

Good luck, whatever your decision may be ...

[ June 02, 2002: Message edited by: HawkOne ]

[Gort]

Hawk - those are great articles (alistapart is one of fav sites) and ring true in the industry; they especially ring true for me, for I have been grappling (and will continue to do so) with those very issues. To someone that's new to graphic design, (especially web design), those are just the variables of the environment and workflow. I hate to say it, but if you can't stand the heat, then stay out of the kitchen - that's the way it is and will most likely always be.

Personally speaking:
I struggled with those issues; I let them get under my skin and dislocate my well being; grappling with and mulling over it just made it worse, but no longer - I have accepted those issues as just intergrated challenges within the scope of what I do. Sure - sometimes I do unexciting work, but I do get to do some cool stuff here and there too; I'm happy with it. I am comfortable knowing that I get a paycheck every week and can support my family. Comparatively speaking, when I was younger and without those obligations, I was not quite as grounded and more likely to experiment with other avenues of work.

Scoono - $36K??? In New York?? I started out at $38k in Atlanta (1996). Maybe you should consider relocating!

I will still maintain that you're more likely to find work faster in graphic design. You're right about money - starting off can be slow, but it has a better potential for immediate stability. I honestly don't feel that situation is the same for all designers; sometimes it might be, but you may have to go through some changes to ge to where you'd ideally like to be.