[convoyrider]

Why does it frickin have to have the screenplay, it'll take up half the room. The first book didn't and it was chock full of pics. Who came up with the brilliant idea to combine the two.

[ZippZopp]

is this book out now? where can i get it!!!!

[NiM]

Completly agree with you Loki.. Ep1 isnt the same kind of movie as the original three.. It changed into some kind of action/comedy.. which seems to be the fate of more or less every movie that is done nowadays ...

I'm still hoping it'll surprise me though

[ZippZopp]

i have some high hopes for Ep2...i think it has a much better storyline....we shall see...less than a month away!

[Loki]

Aaaah, more derivative art!
"Attack of the Clowns!" - JarJar's revenge! "Meesa funny!"

Why would they put the screenplay in there? If it's like Ep1 a synopsis on one page is more than enough ...

I'm not flamebaiting here - I was really disappointed of Ep1 - kinda sacriligeous towards the first three movies, which I love.

Anyone think that Ep2 will be any better than the first? I hope so but don't really think so - expecially talking to some of my friends that worked on it ...

[Daniel Lieske]

I wonder, why everybody is so upset by the clowny elements in Episode 1? Look at the classic trilogy! What do you think R2D2 and C3PO are? Philosophers? What about the first encounter with yoda? Remember Chewbacca in that junkyard on bespin? Wow, now THAT was a serious scene!
I think many people just have lost their ability to watch films as what they are: entertainment. Children had great fun watching Jar Jar and I had great fun watching breathtaking lightsaber fights, that�s the deal. Just try to relax in your seats!

[strata]

well Harry Knowles of aint it cool (who's reviewed sw2 [url=http://www.aintitcool.com)]www.aintitcool.com)[/url] thinks that ep 2 makes ep1 look a LOT better and justifies a whole lot of things, and that you can really start to see the three new films tie in with the old ones as one grand epic... so I'll bite my tongue 'til I see it =)

[Steven Stahlberg]

Hm, nothing - IMHO - could ever justify:
putting near-human lips, teeth and eyeballs on all aliens;
the terrible wooden acting of Natalie (I guess it was supposed to be 'imperial'?!?);
a script that has one of the most complex and confusing and least motivating setups of all time (trade embargo... huh?);
that has jedis letting a little boy race a deadly race so they can get money to continue their quest;
a little boy who is torn from his only parent with just a few seconds of sadness and then tra-la-la he's all happy again;
a really cool and interesting bad guy who's totally wasted before we get to know him and his motivation - like a Jack-in-the-box - sproing: "Haha!! Prepare to d- aaarrrghhhh....."

George... he just can't seem to repeat the original recipe. Well I don't know what's wrong, but something is.
I was one of the original Star Wars nerds, at 17 compared to old Star Trek it was almost a religious experience...
I felt betrayed by ep1, like a beautiful memory from my childhood spoiled... like they sold out to Disney or something. The way I felt about the damn Ewoks. (You know those guys were supposed to be Wookies in the original script, forced to live in treehouses because of all the monsters roaming the forest floor? How cool was that)
I'm sure ep2 will be better because it CAN'T be worse.

[Gimbal8]

convoyrider: The art book for "A New Hope" had the screenplay in it.

[convoyrider]

And that's why I didn't get it. The pictures were few and far between, and they were too small to accomodate the writings.

Teh Ep1 Art book had very little writing.

Hopefully they'll come out with an Attack of the clones portfolio.

[mythwarden]

lol

That's a good analogy of Maul, Steven. ;-)

The thing that bothered me in the first one was the un-ending childlike elements. Now Anakin is grown up and from what I’ve seen of the previews it looks great. I can’t wait to see it.

I've loved Natalie since "The Professional"—“L�on”. So I'm looking forward to seeing her more in this one too.

-myth

[Steven Stahlberg]

Yes, I love Natalie too, in everything she's done, except ep1. That's why it's so weird, I'm not sure what happened there... maybe the directing... "No, you have to be more emotionless, your voice must be more grating..." [shakes head]

[Frog]

Mmmh, I remember them too, although I was a little younger than Steven

Controversial but the only one I've ever really liked is Empire Strikes Back. The third one was ruined by those stupid muppets, which is a shame as the Emperor was wwaaayyy cool. A New Hope only gets ok when Han Solo comes along, the bit at the start with teenage Luke is grating Ep one was just completely uninvolving...

[Loki]

Lieske: yayaya ... can you tell me if EP1 was entertainment - why wasn't I really entertained? Maybe because it's bad entertainment?

Steven - very good analysis.

Even the VFX didn't make me really go wow - they were very very well done & the Podrace was the only exception - that rocked my world.
But in every corner of every scene there's a little critter doing backflips. I Felt that maybe there was too much(!) going on.

And I didn't care for the story either. Two plot points that totally annoyed me:

"Ooops - I hit the wrong button and all of a sudden I fly in space and am taking out this huge space station. Cool!" - totally ridiculous - force or not.

"Meta Chlorins" - why the holy F had Lucas to find a physical explanation for the force? He should call it "The Farce" now. It didn't do anything good to bring an explanation for the mystical force. It took the magic out.

And on and on it goes. Good luck expecting EP2 to be much better. I wish. But it won't.

[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: Loki ]

[BlackPool]

At least we get to see somebody in that Boba Fett armor actually using it! That makes it better then Episode I already. Superficial I know, but then so is the subject.

That's disapointing about the script being included. I doubt I will be getting it either, darn it.

[BlackPool]

Lucas and his yes-men...I'm afraid this has been known for quite some time now. That's why guys like Kurtz, Marcia Lucas, and Kershner are getting praised now for thier part for using the "NO" word. And with the results of that word NO being A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back and without them being Return of the Jedi and The Menace I guess it seems this theory has merit.

[Sukhoi]

One thing we can't avoid or dismiss, is our willingness to debate the subject of 'Star Wars' over and over again.

And I guess that's worth something even if we are dissapointed.

Btw, I totally agree with Daniel Lieske. You can never watch a movie with the same eyes you did the first time you saw it, and I highly doubt that you guys would find ANH all that incredible if you saw it now. With the slap stick like comedy, and "it's a battlestation" (Ben being very forseeing indeed), and all.

'Star Wars' was a part of growing up for most of us. Like 'Back To The Future' and 'The Labyrinth'. F*cking great movies for that excact reason IMHO. They helped us in some way....
Remember how cool is was when you where kids youselves to watch other children in movies do extraordinary things (i.e. "Ooops - I hit the wrong button and all of a sudden I fly in space and am taking out this huge space station. Cool!") That was the best, but now we find it unrealistic and we feel pissed upon.

Just some thoughts, because I really agree with most of the things being said here. I just wanted to remind you guys how funny is is to debate these things, and that atleast has SOME value, weather or not the newer movies suck.

EDIT: sorry, complete rambling.

Sukhoi

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Sukhoi ]

[Jason Manley]

steven...

I was speaking with some friends from ILM and they told me months ago that the writing and the acting was gonna be a horrible killer to the second movie...they said they were doing a great job with the art but that ole george was surrounded by way too many "yes men". supposedly no one will tell him no yet behind his back they disagree.

I guess it would be hard to say no to a man who pepsi supposedly paid two billion dollars for the use of his characters in their marketing program. two billion dollars cash money....yet all his employees at lucas arts and ILM are grossly underpaid. a couple years ago the christmas bonus at lucasarts was a desk sized cd rack with starwars logos on it. hahahahahahaha poor guys...but I will say that the prizes at the halloween parties are huge (computers and trips and whatnot)...fourth of july at skywalker ranch is pretty extravagant as well. regardless...underpaid yes men happy to just be working on such an art heavy blockbuster abound according to those working there.


j

[convoyrider]

George is trying too hard to make these new movies far too important, as if they had some deep meaning. The first three were fun, natural and believeable.

Ep1 was just crap smothered on reel. It felt too self important and i reckon this new one will be the same.

[Loki]

I didn't want to write amything about Lucas getting his booty kissed by everyone his surrounds himself with. My friend told me even Muren doesn't speak up but will make comments so Lucas doesn't hear it ... eeek!

Anyway - Jason - well - at least ILM people get prizes, haha - at DD we always had to buy our crew t-shirts ... and now crew photos too ... oh well

[strata]

I watched the entire special edition dvd... all the featurettes and directors commentary and stuff... and it sheds light as to what they were actually thinking (like the parting of Shmi and Anakin which Steven touched upon)... but now that you mention the yes-men thing... I don't think I heard a single person disagree with Lucas throughout the entire hour long production film... I mean Doug Chiang was sitting there going 'Ok, Ok, Ok, Ok' to basically whatever Lucas said... I really do wonder what would happen if anyone stood up and said 'Listen, you're making a complete muckup of this entire thing, try THIS instead'... I think Lucas might be a bit consumed in thinking he's more god-like then he really is... 'tis what I THINK anyways...

the featurettes on the sword fights were cool though... Hooray for Ewan McGregor and Ray Parks....

[xino]

yanno...we are all shortsighted...since we don't know what the final product of the three films are going to be....

Lucas on the other hand does....so perhaps he's doing things for a reason no?

you all are way too cynical...

and of course Doug Chiang is going to say "ok, ok, ok." Lucas ius his damn boss....also Lucas was telling him how he wanted the design to look like....doug's job is exactly like what an advertiser does for his client..he does WHAT THEY WANT....what may look good or feel right to him doesn't mean it'll make sense in the major scheme of things...

you are all judging EP1 & 2 knowing the last three movies as a whole...I doubt anyone who says "ep1 sucked" never saw Empire SB....you can't judge a book by the first chapter...

same argument people are complaining about because some dork upset their movie experience for LotR.....not everyone is so short sighted...especially not lucas

and no offense to people who come here who may work for ILM but crying me a damn river...who gives a crap about getting a bonus?

I thought the REAL reason all of us artists get jobs in art is just to do it...not for the amount of money it puts in our pocket...and those twerps who complain about their "terrible" job at ILM need to quit and let someone else more deserving work there...

last time I looked no one was holding a gun to anyone's head

[Steven Stahlberg]

George deserves much admiration for his life's work, but we must be allowed to give constructive crits on his movies where we feel it's justified. He's not our boss - not yet anyway.

The "it-may-still-all-work-out" defense, I've heard it before, and I can't agree with it. Nothing in a later related episode can exonerate, excuse or explain a badly made earlier episode, no matter if it's books, tv or film. Each part must stand or fall on its own merits, must be judged as a separate work as well as a part of the whole.

[xino]

well under that definition then then I stand up and should yell " Lord of the Rings fucking sucked!"

sorry but the first star wars was campy as hell...but because most of us were children when we watched it we didn't even realize it...all of Luke's dialogue was camp...pure and simple...

same with anakin in EP1

and lord of the rings did suck standing by itself....there was no closure in it and without the other movies it left it's audience dangling which is something to do in a tv series but not in a movie even if it will have sequels...

[Steven Stahlberg]

Yes, I agree, as a movie, taken by itself, LOTR is not very good (storywise, and the story is all important). We must admit this.

But two things separate Phantom Menace from LOTR - LOTR was never meant for film - basically it was an impossible task, without making a 5 hour movie marathon. Star Wars is written by the director himself, and was always meant for film, so I don't feel he can use the same excuse.

The other thing - IMHO PM sucked much worse than LOTR, though of course now we're into opinions again.
LOTR was wonderfully free of aliens looking like charicatures (have you seen 'Spitting Image'?), plot-holes, and bad acting. Again, I stress, IMHO.

More opinions:
Comparing PM to ANH: in ANH there's actual chemistry between the actors, aliens that are what they should be - totally weird and scary - and a simple strong evocative story, told in a new way (and very well too). We're very strongly emotionally involved from the first few seconds, and the emotions - and stakes - just keep getting stronger and higher. It's story-telling at its very finest - no wonder it mesmerized us.

[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Steven Stahlberg ]

[Switch]

Only thing I don't like is the special effects.

They're way overdone and too polished. Everything looks too new and shiny in Ep1. I like non computerised props, models and stop-animation in the old movie because everything looks really well used, and convincing.

In Ep1 you've got special effects in your face non-stop so nothing makes you go 'wow'.

It's like they make effects as complex and as constant as possible simply because they CAN.

[PixelPeZ]

Steven:

I agree on the point that Lucas has no excuse on making a bad movie on something that originally was ment to be a movie.
When it comes to a book, it all depends on your imaginations abilities. If you read the book and imagine it to be grand, and the movie is sort of mild, it will be a dissapointment. And vice versa. When I went to see PM, I had no idea of what to wait, and needless to say, I wasn't impressed. I think every single actor pulled their worst role there. I happen to like Liam Neeson, Evan McGregor and Natalie Portman a lot, but I fealt something sting in my gut as I watched them trying to pass as royalties and respectful knights, but failed miserably ... well, and then there's the jar-jar issue.

But I really, really liked LOTR. But maybe this is because I have never read the books, except for 'Hobbit', but I will, I promise
This also might be why I didn't find any weak storylinks or anything alike. I have to read the books over the summer when I have the time, and watch the film again, perhaps I can see what you ment.

Special effects wize, I dont think PM had any more of them than LOTR, but somehow the animators managed to make LOTR seem believable, which as I understand is the hardest task of 3D. The textures and colours and such seemed believable, whilst in PM it all looked like plastic and caramel candy. Am I making any sense? As LOTR and countless other movies prove, you in fact CAN make believable CG worlds, but somehow Lucas decided he wants to make a kidflick, where everything is so shiny that if you stare at the screen longer than 5 minutes you'll be blind.

A few days back I watched the EP II trailers and it doesn't seem to be much better. Anakin looks like a coverboy, and McGregor is throwing witty remarks. And the sweeeet love story ... Lucas has turned his space-saga into a mockery of itself. It has lost all credibility - can you see the Obi Wan of the originals doing what McGregor is doing? Or Anakin, a really calm and deep as he is in the later episodes, being as he is in the ep 1 and 2 ? I don't think so.
I think myself as a people person, a good judge of characters and I think Anakin would be the silent kid, reading and getting to know as much as he can. Not the really active type who just suddenly turns bad ...

ok, enough ranting like a madman, but I think I made my point.

[strata]

I saw some clips from ep2 last night... and in all honesty... it looked gay... really really disturbingly gay. Bright shiny happy colors everywhere... and such... oh well. I must say I've lost pretty much all anticipation and excitement for episode 2 coming out though...

[Steven Stahlberg]

PixelPez, I agree with you mostly, sorry didn't mean to imply that LOTR is a bad movie (I loved it myself), just that the story wasn't the best ever as far as the story-telling, you know with the empathy with the characters and all... any time there are many characters it gets really tricky in the limited format of film to keep the empathy going...

[xino]

I think the CG opinions have merits in and of themselves but you're looking at it based on a movie aspect..not on a timeline aspect...follow me here

in the last three chapters everything was worn and broken and used correct?

well what would brand new equipment looks like eh?...shiny and plasticy. (I doubt that's a word but whatever)

you seem to forget that most of the vehicles used in EP 1 are supposed to be brand new and the like...take for instance the Naboo starship that they use...yes I fully agree that it was entirely shiny.....but you name one provine of royals in the world right now who don't drive brand new "looking" vehicles and the like...I doubt you will find any

and Zulu african king's huts don't count I'm talking about the civilized world (sorry to offend any native Africans in our midsts if we have any )

I doubt any of us can judge how skywalker was going to act in any of the prequels...it's because it's not our story...you have been watching star wars since 1977 and of course we all have the stories drawn out and how the characters would look to us in our heads long before the prequel was even planned....but that's because it's not our vision...and here you sit on your high horse and say from afar "hey George Lucas that character sucks because it wasn't what I wanted. Redo it."...come on...we of all people should empathize with Lucas' vision as artists ourselves...he's a storyteller....I don't remember hearing people bitch out Stephen King because Misery didn't end they way they wanted...

hopefully some of you can get my point.

I just find it sad in a supposed great group of artists we have a few hear who concern themselves with degrading someone elses work based on what THEY think it should be...it's not yours.

I for one will be there opening day ready, willing and able to see Episode 2 because I would like to see where he takes us as a storyteller.

and for the person who complained about all the aliens resembling humans...if you look in the crowds a little bit more you might be surprised....and I won't even get started on Sebulba since he totally blows apart your theory that all the aliens resemebles humans

but I digress.....

next time some of you post some artwork in the unfinished sectioin I might just drop a line saying "hey you need to redo that because I don't think it works for me based on what I think you should be doing to please me."

then you might see what I mean.

how dare any of you.