[good bye]

Hi, I'm new here. I was refered by a friend. He said there were a number of professional artists that post here often and I want to ask some questions about portfolios:

- How do I put a portfolio together? What does a kick-ass, professional portfolio look like? What is in it? What form does it take? Is it in an envelope? A case? On a CD-ROM?

- What do potential employers want to see in a portfolio? Who are these potential employers? Who wants professional artists? How do I get interviews with them?

I'm a decent artist but I don't know where to start or what I'm doing as far as finding a job. Seriously, I'm an idiot about that stuff and I'm terrible with people. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Lunatique]

quote:

---

Originally posted by watchitman:


I'm a decent artist but I don't know where to start or what I'm doing as far as finding a job. Seriously, I'm an idiot about that stuff and I'm terrible with people. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

---

1)If you want a job, you need to learn to be more resourceful first. Search engines exist for a reason. There are plenty of company websites that list the requirements for employment. There are different industries and different positions. You need to look into WHAT you want to do exactly and then research on that. Sijun is a great place to get help, but it's not cool to ask people to spoon-feed you. Do some homework first, then ask very specific questions.

2)Being terrible with people will not get you a job. How can you get a job if you can't even make a good impression at the face to face interview? Just exactly HOW are you terrible with people? Do you mumble incoherently? Do you drool? Be specific about your problem so we can give you useful feedback.

[Sukhoi]

It seems like you are not ready for seeking a job in the artworld....
Are you shure this is what you want to do, because it seems like totally random questions you are asking.

What do YOU think a cool portfolio contains?

Where would you like to get a job and why?

The answer to all these questions should come from you yourself, and not us. Not that it is wrong to ask for help, but it seems like you haven't thought about it yourself.

This could be a misunderstanding though, is it?

Sukhoi

[good bye]

These aren't random questions. I asked them because I don't know the answers to them. I thought I made it clear, I'm not even sure what the right questions are! Man, I'm a complete stranger, why are you busting my chops? Are these questions really so terrible?

[Lunatique]

We're stern because you came off as someone completely clueless about something you SHOULD know about, especially having realized you are interested in art as a career, but have done zero homework on your own.

We assume that anyone with a strong interest in an art career will devote some time and energy into researching and learning about what that career involves. To ask a dozen questions that you could've answered yourself by doing a bit of research just shows a lack of dedication.

It doesn't matter if you are a teenager or an adult, in this day and age you have to be resourceful to get anywhere in life. It would be nice to show that you have made SOME effort before asking to be spoon-fed.

[good bye]

I thought doing my "homework" was what I was doing? Geez, how am I supposed to find out anything if no one will tell me? Sorry I offended you so deeply with my clueless questions. I won't bother you any more.

[FelixL]

Man, you were hard on him!

Sure it ain't easy questions to answer, but it is legitimate to ask about this subject and discuss about it.

[Lunatique]

No, I don't think we were being too hard on him.

1)He doesn't even know what he wants, or is interested in. "Art" is very general. If I were to list all the different kinds of jobs in the art field, I would be sitting here for a very long time. He was clueless to the point of not even being able to at least mention areas of interest such as comics, illustration, film, animation, 3D, games, fine arts, design...etc.

2)He expected to be spoon-fed detailed information that he should try to at least do a LITTLE BIT of research on. It's as simple as going to any search engine and type in words like: art, portfolio, requirement, employment, career, jobs..etc. And if he used those words in conjunction with words like: games, film, comics, illustration, design..etc, he would've found ALL of the answers he was asking.

Most of the sijuners are more than generous with their time and energy when it comes to helping each other out, but we don't babysit. It's as simple as that.

Maybe I expect too much from newbies? But surely even your typical 14 yr-old teenager with an interest in an art career has SOME clue about what he/she is interested in?

[good bye]

Spoon-fed? You really like that word don't you? Wtf is your problem? You make it sound like I personally came and took a shit on your front yard. You expect too much from "newbies" Here's a possibilty you might have overlooked, you are a total FUCKING PRICK!

Is that what you wanted? Fuck you!

[Lunatique]

I have no answer for that. Sorry.

BTW, with behavior like that, you wouldn't have lasted long here anyways. At no time were we hostile or malicious towards you. We simply indicated that you need to figure out what you want and look around a bit before shooting off a dozen questions. We weren't exactly warm towards you(and we pointed out why), but we were at least helpful in pointing you the right direction.

But, you've shown that you are an ungrateful spoiled child. So, good luck to you, and maybe one day you'll apply at a company that one of us is responsible for the hiring. Let's see how you fare then.

Somehow I have doubts as to if you'll even get that far. But you can always prove us wrong. If you can turn out a kickass portfolio accompanied by a great personality, you would get hired in most places. It's all up to YOU.

[Sukhoi]

I'll just disregard these last two posts and ask quwqyey:

What are your areas of interest?

What do you want to do? Show us examples of your work!

What are your ideas concerning a cool portfolio?

And I'll tell you this:
My porfolio (for applying to school of design and work) is a large piece of cardboard folded in two, containing drawings and graphic work of sorts.

I guess it's too late, but hey

Sukhoi

[Gimbal8]

I'll add this to the discussion:

quwqyey: There are 2 or 3 very important lessons about the industry that just unfolded in this thread right before your eyes. Learn to deal with criticism, be resourceful and self-motivated, and the most important one of all, A question well asked is half answered.

Just put yourself in the shoes of someone hiring. What would you want to see in a portfolio? What kind of personality would be best suited for a career in art? Would you hire someone that just woke up yesterday say and said to themselves, "hmm I wonder if I can get a job drawing stuff?" Or would you hire someone who showed more focus and dedication to learning their craft and refining their skills, someone who understands what they are getting into and what will be required of them?

It may seem like we are being jerks, but by not spoon feeding you the information we are answering your questions in the best way possible.

I don't recall where I read this (it was ages ago when I read it) but I remember it was a book on eastern thought and it was a little story about a couple of students and their master:

They stood on a bridge overlooking the river when the student asked his master, "How deep is the river?"

The master threw his student into the river.

[Ahcri]

Recently I've been putting together a portfolio for applying to art school, it's really simple. A "kick-ass" portfolio, whatever the purpose is, should always display your varied skills in a limited number of slides or pictures. So you would want to be concise. At least that's what I've been told by everyone.

The question you asked is not a bad one, but it's not very specific. What you'll get is the answer like the ones you've already gotten -- not particularily helpful. If you want to be spoon-fed (sorry to use that word again) such a simple information, you'll have more luck asking people around you instead on the internet. Real live help often have the option of being more patient with you.

[Kaete]

Aim your portfolio at whoever you want to impress. For instance, if you want a job with an illustration company, it's probably not a good idea to only show them your manga art. On the other side, if you're trying to get work as a sequential artist, showing only slides of your clay sculptures isn't the best idea.

Like Ahcri said, you want your portfolio to show a good diversity. Show your strong points.

As for what your portfolio actually is --- that's up to you. Traditionally, you'd just have a folder of good-quality slides. Make sure the slides are well done. After all, you may have the greatest paintings ever, but if the picture is over-exposed then the client will never know it!

Now, of course, CD's are getting more popular. They're cheap so you can give them away and not feel like you throwing away money.

[Frog]

I really don't think that it was such an unreasonable question, and it was politley asked. Lunatique might just be having a bad day

Portfolios vary according to their intended purpose, for instance I have a snazzy book printed up with my best work to show clients when I meet them face to face, as well as two websites that showcase various aspects of my work and also a CD I send out with animation samples.

The first thing to do is indentify where you might want to work, there are many jobs for artists and you need to find the right one for you. The next stage is to work on some appropriate samples and be prepared to spend a long time doing this, just being a good artist is not enough as employers need to see that you can produce the kind of work they are specifically looking for.
If you are completely new to the professional world you might also have to get used to the fact that it could take you years to get to where you want to be, and maybe to aim low to start with so that you can get some professional experience.

[NoXious]

Well. that was the best disscussion i have read ever! and i learned from it too! god i love these forums

[anticz]

Lunatique,
You're the last person on this forum I'd take advice from. There's a difference between being confident and arrogant (and yes, you are being arrogant).

quwqyey,
Best advice I can give is figure out what you like doing and start doing it. Show your stuff to as many people as possible and ask (politely) for any feedback/advice they have to offer.

[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: anticz ]

[Lunatique]

How am I being arrogant, Mike? I may not have been giddy happy towards the guy, but I also wasn't mean either. I tried to get him to research/think about his own questions and make an effort instead of asking to be told every little detail about something he's not even sure what it is.

ar�ro�gant (�r��-g�nt) adj. 1. Making or disposed to make claims to unwarranted importance or consideration out of overbearing pride.

That doesn't describe me. I'm constantly in awe of the amount of talent here at sijun, and I try to be helpful and share things with everyone. I see works and personalities here that I respect and admire everyday, whether the person is a seasoned pro or a younger artist. Someone like Paul Steed is arrogant, not me.

[anticz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatique:


But, you've shown that you are an ungrateful spoiled child. So, good luck to you, and maybe one day you'll apply at a company that one of us is responsible for the hiring. Let's see how you fare then.

Somehow I have doubts as to if you'll even get that far. But you can always prove us wrong.

---

That sounds pretty arrogant to me. Already denying 'quwqyey' a job. Sounds like you think you're pretty important if you already have the power to wreck his career at a company that niether of you work at yet. Who know's, maybe he'll be the one responsible for hiring you one day. It seems to me that he's doing a little research right here (can you think of a better place to get information on this subject?), but you practicaly told 'quwqyey' to get lost and never come back.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lunatique:

Sijun is a great place to get help, but it's not cool to ask people to spoon-feed you.

---

I don't recall him ever asking to be "spoon-fed" (hmm, that sounds like you were trying to belittle him). Get a grip. This is an art discussion forum. People come here to ask Questions. Btw, it's not up to you to decide what's cool and what isn't. I think that's the moderator's job.

[Lunatique]

Okay, point taken. I was probably too hard on him.

I pointed out that he could end up applying at a job someone here could be hiring for to remind him that there ARE people here who are in the position of hiring, and him using foul language with such anger will not help him make a good impression. I never said "I." I said "one of us," as in any sijun member. To remind him of the consequences of his behavior is not being arrogant.

The spoon-feeding thing:

Look at the kind of questions he was asking.

*Who are these potential employers?
*Who wants professional artists?

Tell me if that doesn't sound like he has no idea what he wants to do at all, and needed someone to tell him what he should be interested in, and every little step of the way he should take to get there. If that's not spoon-feeding, then I don't know what is.

[synj]

step 1: never read anything written by lunatique.

step 2: make neat things and show them to people.

step 3: repeat step 1 when necessary, and keep repeating step 2.

the end!



[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: synj ]

[Frog]

The point is, the guy quite happily admitted being new and not knowing much in his original question, so why not just give a simple helpful answer rather than patronise him?

I think the spirit of the boards is generally one of helpfulness, there's no point in talking down to someone cos their new, we're all here to learn so let's just keep the tone friendly and helpful.

My first post was along the lines of "I use Photoshop but find Painter confusing", how many times has that question been asked? Luckily people still took the time to answer my question and make me feel welcome, and I think that since then I've made an ok contribution and shared whatever knowledge I have - without being condescending about it.

Just remember how easy it is to ask stupid questions, such as you did just the other day on CG Bulletin

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Frog ]

[good bye]

I got off to a bad start. I apologize to Lunatique for losing my temper. That was wrong of me. How about I start over?

Hi, I'm new here. Before I ask for help, I should tell you about myself. I am currently living in the state of Indiana. I attended a mediocre art school here in the Midwest for 6 years but did not get a degree; I am 18 credits short of my BFA. After college, I went to work for a "business communications" company where I mostly keyed in copy on slides for business slide presentations. I did not leave on good terms, the details are not important at this point. Consequently, they did not make a very good reference.

I did not work for a full year after that (not counting the lousy factory jobs I had while looking for a job). I finally found a job at a commercial printer in their pre-press department. I did not do a whole lot of quality design there but I did learn a lot about Photoshop (I did tons of photo cleanup and correction and serious manipulation work), Illustrator, PageMaker and Quark Xpress by fixing designers files so they would rip properly. I hated the job after a year there but stayed on for another year because I didn't know what else to do. And it was so stressful, it pushed me to my mental breaking point. Desperate for money and before I recovered fully from that job I went to work for another commercial printer in their pre-press department. It was even worse there. I finally had a nervous breakdown. That was over a year ago and I have not worked since.

I went to a doctor and realized I had been suffering from severe depression for years and I still am. I take medication for it on a daily basis now. My dad pays for my medication because my insurance ran out. He doesn't always have enough money for me to refill my prescription. When that happens, after a few days the medication wears off and I spiral into another dark depression. My creativity and productivity nose-dive. I did not realize it but this had been going on for years and it made it very difficult for me and those around me when I was in school, work and my home life.

In the time that I have been unemployed I have not been idle. I've gone back to what I went to art school for in the first place, art. When I was younger I wanted to be an illustrator. I also loved comics, movies and video games - what teenage American male does not? The problem is, I ended up working at various jobs that had nothing to do with my first and true love, ART!

So...

Am really here for some career advice. I am a pretty good artist but I have never really done it for a living. I have done plenty of searches around the internet for information, I just do not know what the hell I am supposed to be looking for! I do not personally know a single professional artist. I have never seen a professional's portfolio. I never made a single contact throughout college or professionally. I am clueless.

If someone could take a look at my art and maybe make some suggestions as what field I would be good at, I would be very grateful. Then I need to find out how I am to break into said field. I know there is nothing in it for the person(s) that help me but I would be very very grateful.
Http://watchitman.deviantart.com/gallery (my most recent work) http://www.watchitman.com (my personal web site, it needs to be updated)

Thank you for your time and patience.

[Lunatique]

I apologize too.

Let's start over.

Ok, to answer your question.

1)You need to ask yourself if you are willing to tough out the hard times if you were to become a starving artist, because a job in the art field could be hard to come by.

2)Based on the things you like, there are many things you can do, but you need to shoot straight for one target in order to be effective. If your body of work is diverse and you qualify for different industries, then you need to decide what you enjoy the most.

3)Even though money might not be the first concern in an art career, but you still need to live. For example, comics pay shit unless you are working on a high profile title for a big company. There are exceptions, but few and far between. On the other hand, a job in game and film will guarantee a starting salary of around $25,000 to $30,000. But, you need to know your computer stuff well(photoshop, which you already know. There's also 3D stuff like max, maya...etc).

4)Once you decide where lies your strongest interest, and you are ok with the kind of money you'll be making, start researching on the net for companies in the industry. search engines can get you a lot of answers. For example, if you want games, search for combination of words like: video game companies, portfolio, resume, jobs..etc. Each company will slightly differ in their requirements.

5)Once you see what the general requirement is, start shaping your portfolio to that requirement. Most comapnies will have similar requirements, so if you prepare one well-rounded portfolio, it could be used to apply to many places.

6)The format of the portfolio could be different depending on the company. Some want only printed work in the mail, some will look at websites or CD ROMs. There's no standard.

7)your condition could hinder your chances if it's not well cared for. I've had GF's in the past with similar conditions, so I understand what it's like for you. Some companies will ask about your medical condition, so be prepared to give them an understanding of your situation.

I wish you luck, and welcome to sijun.

Based on what I see in your links, it seems you have an inclination for imaginary work. Maybe concept work in film or games?

Honestly, the best advice I can give you right now is to hang around sijun. The amount of talent and interaction that goes on here could possibly be your best training. Check out what people are posting here, and then look at their websites to see what industries they work in, and what kind of stuff they have on their website. I wouldn't recommend just having people go to your website and then ask them to give a general feedback. Try posting individual pieces of work in either the finished gallery or work in progress to get very detailed and helpful feedback. On a good day, you'll get VERY valuable feedback that can make a huge difference.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[good bye]

Thanks.

[Novacaptain]

Aww...now that makes me happy...First conflict resolved in a civilized manner.

[odin_n]

ohhh a happy ending.... =] hey im still studying currently in singapore...well im the line for 2d animation and 3d animation.... first to start off.... i really am very happy to see the happy ending and as a newbie in sijun also....im glad i found this forum..... some advice i would give.... which may or may not be useful is...... if you really wanna work in the art industry.....i think theres is much more things to learn first than to work first.....im not saying go back to your studies.... but instead, im saying learn from a working environment....by this i mean : because seeing that you really have no idea where to go, i think you should join a small company, probably and illustration one and work in there....i dunno about the outside world, but in singapore, theres such companies that aint pretty much popular, but the kind of employees and expierence the staffs have are pretty much professional standard....and this is what one of my friend did.....he looks like the kind of situation you are in, and he went for the job...the pay was cheap.....but by the end of the day...this is what he got

1}learning hand illustration skills which looks like printing works

2}get to know the proffessionals through the company staffs

3}working in that company gives him time to build his port folio because all the project works in the company adds up to his port folio

4}since its a small company, he gets time for doing his own stuffs and learning painting and other life drawing stuffs too....

the main point i wanna say and bring across is this.....if you feel like what my friend feels like, or what i also feel that should be done, go find a small company and start working in it...like the advices given, search the web..... i know its kinda tough in the real world...and know im saying this and typing all this as easy as it can gets....but i really feel like if you really push yourself to work it slow, its possible.

sijun is really a great forum...some of these guys here really give good advices.... they may even teach stuffs that you wanna know.....

of course all the above is just my personal view....but i really wish all the artist here gets what they want and continue discussing stuffs over here..... no one really starts from being a pro. talent may be one thing. passion is another.....

i really wish you good luck on your job search =]

[Sukhoi]

I love you guys!!!

Good to have you back Whatchitman!

Sukhoi

[anticz]

Lunatique,
Well spoken! Good advice.