[Jess]

Rorshach, I don't think you're going to get bashed here. We're all "artists" and most with the "live and let live" theory... although some are more questionable than others as far as peacefullness goes. I can't spell today...

Anyway, I agree with a lot of you here. Although, I know what GiantHampster is trying to say when he says we are all God, I don't believe that I am. I do understand the idea he is trying to get across though, and it was enlightening. We really should not give 'God' the responsibility for what 'we' (as humans) have done to the world. I find it very easy to just get angry with thier God and blame it on him for not being there as they say he is.

I'm very sad lately and dissapointed in our world. The other week here in America, a six year old went to school with a gun he found under some blankets where he lived. He shot and killed one of his class mates, a little girl.... these are first graders.. As a parent, I am fearfull of the world she faces. Not just violence in schools, but also all of the pedafiles people choose to not see living in thier own community. In America there is at least one known pedafile every sqare mile. I'm sure you can understand the worry and concern.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that it is just so easy to place the bad things in 'God's' hands and disown all responcibility. But the question I want to raise is what can we do about all of the bad things? Justice has proven to be a big joke in our country. And the government is an even bigger joke. I'm just rambeling... I don't feel good today...

[[Shizo]]

Die die die you soab! I KISS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

heehh i dont let others live, i kill/kiss them instead!!
YOU CAN STAY MY HOME!!!!!!!!

/peace

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Russia is power. You dont agree --> we nuke you!

[Rorshach]

Jess:

Wish I could give you a more optimistic reply but i cant. The worlds not gonna get better and misdirection of where to place blame is government protocol.

Take Saddam as an example of war/ government misdirection.

When that all started up, Bush was on the one hand selling weapons to Iraq , and then fuelling up the american public to vote for him because ' We still live in a dangerous world' ...

John Major in britian was doing the same thing. And when it 'got out' to the american/ british public the american papers wrote that america sold iraq ' farming equipment', british papers said it was ' machine tools ' they sold iraq.

Eventually ALL outrages grime over with time to mere curiosities, we're all meant to be feeling isolated and in need of something to grip onto and beleive in or hide within.

Thats IF you've ( i mean people in general) got enough brains to recognize that life is a bit fucked up.

You asked what can we do?

Well we can stand up and protest and if we make any progress we are 'got rid of' one way or another. Whenever theres been figures in history that have tried to adress these things they disappear , John Lennon was shot for instance.


So rule that out.

The only thing left to us to do in life as I see it is to try to carve out a little eden for ourselves and instill our own lives with the dignity and nobility that the world around us seems not to.

Theres no possibility left of a perfect world.

So draw, and make your perfect world upona canvas or monitor. Its as close as you can get.


Well thats as much dark minded thinking as I've got time for tonight!



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www.quakefiles.com/rorshach

r.

[Sanga]

It looks like I'm the only one coming from this direction, I am a Buddhist, (Mom's from Thailand.) the things I live my life by are the principles of kindness, compassion, and awareness. As far as knowing the unknowable,its like a man standing in the middle of his home while it burns all around him and he yells: "I'm not going to leave this house until I find out who set this fire!" By the time he finds out, its too late.

Sanga

[Zaphod]

Atheist here.

God is just all religious peoples imaginary friend.

I belive in myself.

/Zaphod

[Count Zero]

Religion is the most personal thing for an individual. No one should have anything to say about another persons religion.
Well, the exception being that when a religion threatens your very existence or that religion conflicts with the rights of an individual. A religion is personal, but it works both ways so that one's own religion should not affect the people around him/her at least in a negative sense.
Am I making any sense here?
Btw, I'm officially a Lutheran, but my belief in a divine entity or entities (or even the lack of one) is not limited to labels or membership in "organizations". My faith defies description. It only is. I make my own future and faith within the constraints of whatever created the universe.
Oh yeah, coherence is my middle name.
You figure it out.

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[eLated]

Religion...

At first I thought of it as an elaborate story pased on to create what I see as the basis of morality.

Then after a few years I now think morality is nothing more then a humans way of prolonging their own lives.

If you think about it, one only does good things to get something in return. Be it something tangible or not.

You don't go around killing people because you don't want others to go kill you.

It almost seems like a treaty, now that everyone excepts such acts as morally wrong general opinion now can punish people for these acts, which can be viewed as an attempt to prevent such actions to target oneself.

Why is it that cheating on someone is wrong? If the spouse is displeased with their situation should they be forced into an unwanted relationship? Why should people get married? Human beings are not meant to find a soulmate, only companions... Why is it that the ideal is to have a family with one wife? Why is it that murder is wrong... People are suppose to die, the weak are meant to die, the strong meant to survive...

Bassically religion is now so far into our society that it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, it already affects your everyday life and/or outlook on what's right and wrong.

(Now of course I don't advocate these things they are simply things I wonder about)

[This message has been edited by eLated (edited March 16, 2000).]

[imdaking]

God, is a mythical beast.....

RELIGON was something made up for people to believe in. Something to give people hope, for rulers and leaders to keep people under control... "If you don't kill anyone, you'll go to heaven and live happily when you die!"
So in turn, people say, okay! Yay! Eternal happiness! Hooray! But then, it got out of hand, maybe the poly theistic culturs, such as mayan's indians etc. needed something to explain to them why things happened... So they have a river god that makes the fish come.... They weren't smart enough to make the connection that the fish returned to there spawning ground... dunno, religon seems like a bunch of crup to me!

/me slaps shizo

no vodka! no bread! you shall eat mustard and chicken feed! haha!

[Jtbrack]

Christian here, been one my whole life.

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-:Jtbrack:-
Aspiring Web Designer

[kurisu]

I think I agree with most parts of what's been shared here. For me...

- I want to respect other's beliefs as I want them to respect mine - religious 'space,' if you will.

- I'm not sure, but I think I'm believing more that the universe is composed of energy, as are all things within it. Including us, the planets, even emotions... all energy.

- I try to act positively, hoping that it will affect those around me positively, and in turn bring back positive energy.

- As far as a 'God,' I think I have mixed feelings. There *could* be one entity - but as to what form? No idea. Could be some old guy with a beard... a magnificent lady... a hermaphrodite... an animal... more than one 'being'... or maybe it's "all around us. It surrounds us, binds us..." as old Ben once said... In general, though, I think everything we do affects everything else, in some way.

- Which leads to the next idea - that nothing ever 'dies.' Since I believe that everything is a form of energy, it just changes form... so a human that dies, for example, is absorbed into the ground/wind/water/whatever and still exists, but is 'separated' all over the place in a natural way. A circle of energy that constantly feeds & consumes itself.

- I do think that the bible is basically a book of morals, and was created with 'faith.'

- I do think that religion has and shall always be a strong human system - with unending variations. Some have promoted it wisely and thoughtfully, while others have used it to take advantage of others. Religion can bestow great power on those who teach/lead it and as long as there is greed, there will always be abusers.

-k

[This message has been edited by kurisu (edited March 17, 2000).]

[coconutmonkey]

Hey wow this is an interesting thread i have to say, personally I'm a christian. Not because my parents were i haven't discussed religion with my parents in a LONG TIME, but because i want to be. I'm not going to get on here and say you're all going to hell because well that'd be wrong. I will argue the fact that there is a "higher being". And i do not believe it is ourselves. A higher being means there was something that we came from, I dont see how some of the most intelligent people on this planet could say that there was a big BANG then we (as in the human civilization) came from bacteria? i mean cmon. Look at our world and nature itself, everything falls into place perfectly everything works together to live. Some people ask how could there be a god when such bad things happen. Look at it this way. Would life be as "Fun" if there wasnt the chance of losing? How can you be happy when you succeed at something when there isnt the chance of failing? If the chance of failing wasnt there then you wouldnt be succeeding. Something i noticed however i have read a few different sources of literature from many religions and events in every book show up in others. Maybe we're all believing in the same god here. A big thing that came to me was when i was studying the human body for art. I was studying the human muscle structure very closely (if you know your art history Leonardo davinci did this) because if you can learn what's under the skin you'll be able to draw the skin better. Anyways getting off topic, i was studying the human muscle structure and well everything is so perfect. Everything falls together to work to make this "body" work. We didnt come from nothing, something designed all of this. Stuff like this doesn't just HAPPEN.

[nova]

Me? I'm Christian. I think of it as a lifestyle and way of thinking rather than a 'religion'. If you get too involved with 'religion', and not relationship with God, you'll be miserable, as I've found out in the past year or two. I've also tried guiding my own life (believe me.. I TRIED!) and it didn't work so well. Christianity is what works for me, and so far I can't complain, I'm very content



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* * * ** Nova
ICQ: 54240962

[Count Zero]

All things considered, I think that it doesn't matter what you believe in, just that you have something to believe in. Belief in a higher force, yourself or just in the natural order of things is a sustaining force that can be a great ally and strength.
So I guess that makes me an anti-nihilist or something?

[Striker]

I'm a Christian too...
Basically coconutmunkey and Nova covered things pretty well. When I look at the earth and everything in it, I see overwhelming evidence that we were *designed*. There was a lot of thought put into our creation. Everything is designed to work together so perfectly, that I have a very hard time even beginning to believe the basics of the big bang theory. I am continually faced with the fact that disorder never results in order. I'm always amazed that some people won't bet against the odds when gambling, but they have no trouble believing that the earth and something as complex as life was created from the collision of rock?!. In the US gambling is closely regulated, the government prohibits minors from gambling, and yet in the public school system we are taught to believe in a theory of evolution which relys on such immense improbabilities?

When people are faced with a potentially life threatening illness or disease, and a doctor tells that person that they may have a 10% chance of survival, why are they not thrilled?? I mean hey, as far as I can see, the odds of life being created through evolution are somewhere in the area of infinity raised to the power of infinity. So compared to those odds the person should be ecstatic about the fact that they even existed in the first place....

Basically I've focused on why I don't believe in evolution and rambled on about some general thoughts on the subject that happend to pass through my mind at the time. To not so quickly sum it all up, I believe that I, as well as everyone else, was created for a purpose. I believe we are here for a reason. I'm thankful for life and stand in awe of God's creation every time I see a person, a tree, animals, flowers, anything and everything that God created. Then when I look at what man attempts to create it reminds of how little control we have over things.

"Why does God let death and destruction take place on earth?" God gave us the choice to follow him or not to follow him, a choice that I am very thankful for. If we had no choice then there would be little point to life. In the end, I choose to believe that God created me, whether you believe that he created you is your choice...

hmmm.. so many things I didnt say, and so many things that could have been said better... ah well, I'll post now and respond later

oh, just thought of this, while we so confidently claim to know the origin/purpose of life, we are perplexed when asked whether the chicken came first or the egg?


[This message has been edited by Striker (edited March 26, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

One thing that allways strikes me as funny about the christian belief is the fact that 'God' is the 'only' god. Even funnier is that a dozen other religions all have their own 'God' as well, who happens to also be the 'only' god. And then there are ofcourse people who believe in multiple gods... Shit it must be crowded as hell up there (no pun intended).

Im a Darwinist. The only god i believe in is the entity we call EVOLUTION. The incomprehendable complexity and power that has formed all that we know. Like i said on the "life" thread : Life IS Life. It's the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega. No god would ever be capable of creating something so diverse and enormous, let alone in 6 days

Gods were simply created by mankind because they couldnt comprehend the immense machine that is evolution. People that didnt knew the sun is a ball of burning gas, people that didnt know that the earth was round and people that were scared to death that it wouldnt rain on their fields that year. I dont blame them.

I understand it perfectly.

What i do not
understand is that today, in a world so gruesome and unforgiving, in a world reigned by technology and engineering, in this TECHNOCRACY, people still believe in a higher power that rules it all...

When, in the ER, a guy in a white coat revives me after being clinically dead - he did it. Not some guy with a beard up there

/Spitfire




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They're clawing at the sky,
they're gonna pull it down.
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