[Liser Studios]

hello
i asked Khary Randolph (an SVA graduate) for advice, and he said i should study the skeletal structure and the muscle structure (i only studied the muscles, like in hogarth's books)
well i got an anatomy book that i heard was good (as long as a few others) here's all the books i got
Atlas of Human Anatomy for the Artist by Stephen Rogers Peck
Artists Complete Guide to Facial Expression by Gary Faigin
Drawing the Draped Figure by George B. Bridgeman
Dynamic Light and Shade by Hogarth
Dynamic Wrinkles and Drapery by Hogarth
and a book i hate; acrylic painting techniques by Stephen Quiller (it's impressionistic, and i hate impressionism)
i got all those for christmas
anyways, i started studying the skeletal structure. of course, there's lots and lots of nice ol' bones to study (like on the face!). Do you think I have to memorize each bone and their name, or just their structure? and the same question for the muscles.
i don't have a problem with learning all the bones and muscles, but if it's pointless, then I'm not gonna learn all of them.
Thanks in advance
Keith

[tyron]

i'd say you just learn to draw the human body.. copy pictures in the book.. draw people in different poses and so on.. i think that memorizing the muscles and the bones is quite unnecessary.. atleast in the beginning.. if you start with what i just told you and learn that good then you can decide whethet you want to learn every muscle and every bone.
i don't think any artist need to recognize the name of the bone/muscle though don't worry about that.
just draw! that's what's important.

[Ian Jones]

I dont have any specific advice about exactly what you should and shouldn't leave out, but I would suggest drawing from life, as this will establish in your mind the basics of what is necessary and help you to justify certain areas of study.

[Steven Stahlberg]

I don't know all the names of all the bones and muscles, but I do know some, and it helps in communicating (with other artists) - one example: being able to say with one word, the sternocleidomastoid, instead of having to say "that long diagonal tendon/muscle thingy that goes from the lower front of the neck (where the sternum and collarbones meet) up to just under the ear (the mastoid)". Also other medical naming conventions help in talking about the human body, like distal, medial, sagittal etc. I just wished I'd studied all this crap when I was younger and it would have sunk in easier.

[sicean]

ian jones already said it: draw from life. take a class, or go to the mall and draw people as they walk by. that's the best thing you can do.

also, go to your bookstore and buy "constructive anatomy" and "the human form" both by george b. bridgman. they're cheap, about seven bucks each. they're the best books i've read on anatomy for the artist.

[HawkOne]

I'm gonna second everything Steven said, and add a little.

Generally you can forget about everything that would not be directly visible in a normal situation. Prominent areas like the one Steven suggested is a good example ...

But since you're learning bones, I would suggest to have a close look at bones that usually are visible through the skin in different situations. Some of those are the kneecap (patella) or the collarbones (clavicle).

Learning the bones may make it less of a mystery to "interpret" the forms you are drawing when you know "What Lies Beneath"

As for learning latin names by heart, you should probably forget about the minute details, and focus on the big picture like Steven also said. It is very unlikely anyone will ask you to draw a Pedicle or an Acetabulum anyway (I just looked those up).

Unless of course you're doing concept art skeletons for "The Mummy Returns Again" and you have to discuss your drawings with other people. In such cases you will (of course)have an advantage by knowing more.

Heck, that is usually the case anyway ...

Knowledge is power ...

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: HawkOne ]

[Liser Studios]

yeah, i was thinking along the same lines as you and steven...
i really like this book i got, even though it can get complex. but still, the words and definations of them are starting to fall into place in my head. it doesn't seem AS complex (but still is). lol.
here's what i was thinking
i want to go on my own little art studying plan.
for instance, every day i will have to study AT LEAST 1 hour of the bone and/or muscle structure. i was thinking to study the skull for a week, study the spinal column the next week, and so on. i'd also have to have a review day, so i don't forget what i already learned and maybe one day of the week convince my g/f to pose for me so i can see how it effects the body in real life.
or
monday, skull. tuesday an upper body bone. wed a lower body bone thursday other bone. friday review everything, saturday study Lisa.
i'm not sure which would be better though :-\

[spooge demon]

don't forget sculpture. it is a great way to really soak it into your bones, which is where it needs to be.

[Ian Jones]

Undoubtedly, the best learning would be to study Lisa...

"Ain't the female form grand!"

[Liser Studios]

spooge: Hmmmm... i don't have any sculpting materials at home, but i know we do at school.
i'll have to convince my art teacher to let me do some sculpting and anatomy studies. i mean, this is our senior year, the year we're building our portfolio; and the class (art 4) is supposed to be for building your portfolio.
instead we've done stuff like: find a picture, draw it onto a piece of cardboard, and cut out colors from magazines and paste it onto the cardboard.
right now we're painting on chairs.
so yeah, he was just a guy who went to college to try to get into the NFL, didn't make it, and now he's teaching something he doesn't really care much about.
lol, sorry for the whining and rambling. i'm sure he'll at least let me take the stuff home to do it.

ian: yeah, i'm definately gonna try to convince her to let me do some figure studies. i'll ask her and she won't want to, and that will be the end of it... but, from now on it'll be: do figure drawing, or you won't get any "treats" today. if ya know what i'm saying

[bigfoot]

I strongly belive ...If you want to draw the human body "as your nitch",
You should learn the names of the most important bones and muscles.
You don't have to learn the name of them all. (Only doctors have to do that).
But, when you use your anatomy books....If you don't know the names of
the "basic" bones and muscles, you wont know what they are talking about.
The most Important thing to learn is the way the bones and muscles "work
and move" inside the human body.
If you get this kind of knowledge, you'll be able to draw the human body with
complete realism. (especially if you plan to draw cartoons like superman).

[BlackPool]

I can tell you this, Michelangelo, and all the old masters new the bones and muscles and now they worked. While most of them did thier final drawings with the aid of models, they did prepatory sketches for posing ideas without such assistance. If you look at even those early sketches, they still look very realistic because of thier intense knowledge of anatomy.

As for the bones, I would go so far as to say that knowing them is MORE important then knowing the muscles. Muscles change in appearence; bones do not and are the foundation for the bodies form.

When drawing the figure, I rely on the skeleton for proportion. I look for certain points of the skeleton to judge distance by-- such as the pubic bone and each end of the ulna (elbow/wrist).

Basically what you want is to know is the origin and insersion points of those muscles that effect the surface of the skin as well as thier function, as mentioned above. But to know that you must know the skeleton. One thing I did was actually buy a skeleton to study. You can get a very accurate plastic skeleton from a medical supplier for around $500. It's a big investment I know, but I found it was well worth it.

[Liser Studios]

yeah, i totally agree.
the only thing i wonder is, why the heck didn't Hogarth draw the skeleton's? Maybe he was good enough to be able to see them without drawing them (like, see them under the muscles) but when I'm studying his books I don't know a thing about the skeleton. I've been set back at least a 1/2 year because of that.
I mean, I've been studying Dynamic Anatomy and Dynamic Figure Drawing for the last 6 months (beginning of summer). All I was drawing was the muscles, and had no idea why they stopped where they do, what each one does,...etc. It really annoys me... I think I could be much better than I am right now if I would have bought different books to study from.

[HawkOne]

Just in case you haven't already searched for related posts ...

Check this one ... I put a link to lots of nice online anatomy there ...


Sijun Post --> Newbee & Anatomy

[Liser Studios]

bigfoot> thanks for the reply. i do plan on being able to draw, paint, cg,...etc. realistically some day. I want to be an illustrator for book covers, magazine covers, or do some kind of concept art for games/movies/whatever. My favorite artists are Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, and the Tolkien artists... so, yeah... that's the kind of stuff i want to do some day.
yeah, i have to agree with you now about learning the bones/muscles. I wasn't sure if i should just learn how they work, or if i should take the time to learn all their names (which i would of course still learn how they work). After all the advice i got, i'm gonna learn most of the names, not every single little insignificant one though. Makes sense, eh.

[BlackPool]

Yeah, I found out the hard way too that no one anatomy book covers it all for whatever reason. Given what you have said about Dynamic Anatomy, I would say that it is probably meant for more advanced artists who already understand the basics of anatomy and who are looking for a away to be expressive with it.

First learn what human anatomy really looks like and then get artistic with it later.

[nova]

Figure drawing classes are really challenging and sometimes pretty dissapointing, but there's no substitute. A great combination is reading the Hogarth books while you're taking the classes, that way you're studying anatomy and ways to draw it alongside actually drawing it. You can get only so much from just reading.

I don't know if it's that important to know the names of the muscles/bones.. what bigfoot said. Only learn what you have to. There's really no point to knowing all those names, but you should know the basic stuff to describe your drawings better, or to know what muscles to draw.

[MadSamoan]

For anatomy, George Bridgeman's series of books on the anatomy and 'Artistic Anatomy' by Dr. Paul Richer. Although I have several, I don't find Hogarth's series of books to be of much use compared to the others.