[Tranzer]

Hello..

Im new here and I really like alot of paintings in here... I was wondering if there is very much training behind the drawings ?...Could you be good at drawing sketches or are you just born with the gift?.. I know there are much practicing behind it.. but I think you must born with some drawing feelings too... Am I right..? Or could anyone with very much practicing become a great drawer ?

[c]

i'm of the opinion that anyone, and i mean anyone, can learn to draw and paint.

if people are capable of flying to the moon and back, then they are certainly capable of drawing a picture.

course, there are the naturals, but that goes for everything.

[burn0ut]

hard work and dedication.

[Dr. Bang]

actually, i know a jock guy in my school who spent most of his time playing sports and f*ck cheer leader. Guess what, he draw better than any one in school. Even better than the one who spend all day drawing (me)

[bld]

Some people are born with it, others have to work at it.
I have no naturally talent at art, In fact, I prolly use the left side of my brain remember all the damn rules for drawing more than I use my right for some creativity.
Be stubborn if you lack talent, it takes years to develop and hone your skills (don't fall into any style either, try everything, you don't have a style until your a senior citizen damnit).

[Tranzer]

Okey.. thanks.....

But I think that a person must be born with some feelings... I can se people in my class with no feelings.. dont understand how things works with lights etc... and have problem with drawing a cube.... and some people that really got it... know how everything should be... know how to get an idea in head to a piece of paper..
I dont think every person could be a great artist... some people just have it.... some people could learn rules etc.. but not be as good at people with the great creativity

[Returner]

This talk about talent is kind of a way for many people to avoid getting their hands wet with paint I fear (me included sometimes)�
If you talk bout intellegince u used to talk about pure mathematical skills, problem solvers etc...but nowadays its generally accepted that there are several sorts of intelligence (intelligence = different parts in the brain that are more developed then the others) as in musical skills and spatsial control and in sports etc....
The way to say that something can be classed as intelligence is that there are "supergood people" in that area...as in mathematical geniuses (einstein)..so thats why spitting real good and faar cant be classified as an intelligence (even though people are various good in it )
But back to the drawing question now.
All intelligence can be trained to a certain degree, but if you are bad u can never be a masterpainter, but if you are mediocre u can train yourself to be good but never marvelous and so on...
But the thing is that u have to train in order to get better...no gain without pain you know
So I feel sad about people who waste their time watching friends on the tv instead of developing their special skills, myself included
Well just my 10 c

And to say that anybody can train themselves to be a masterpainter, thats just absurd. It�s the same as saying that anybody could beat Michael Jordan in basket if they got the right training in their youth You got to have some sort of foundation from the beginning.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Returner ]

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Returner ]

[Hyperi0n]

Good port Returner..kinda makes me think

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Hyperi0n ]

[Ahcri]

Some people are born with sensibility, some are not. Some use it for art, and some do not. And then only after such a tight'filtering' we get artists that paint and draw with feelings. Feeling can be learned through life experience, but not everyone is willing to learn, so the difficulty depends on the person. But you will still need to knows the means to make an artwork, otherwise chances are you won't be able to express your feelings fully.

[Novacaptain]

You can bet your liver there's much training involved.

I think that the idea of "being born with"
anything is a bit illusionary. Since most of our neural connections are made at an early age i believe that the skills that we develop later in life are very consequential to the stimulations we recieve as children.

I do believe that a person can, possibly with greater difficulty, become a master painter without having any specially stimulating childhood to start with.

"If there is will there is a way" is something i like to believe in.

Dedication to a cause, optimism, and humility to recognise your wrongs and the persistence to eliminate them will make one better no matter if one's only used a pencil to eat food with up to this day.

I don't believe in "gifts" and I disagree with the view that abilities are simply handed down to some an not to others. Everyone makes an effort to achieve their goals. Guidance is always advised, but the effort is just the same.

If you're beginning to draw now, I recommend making it a habit. Learning to draw is not an overnight process...I don't say this to take your enthusiasm away, I mention this merely to let you know that you shouldn't get frustrated if you think that you're progressing slowly. It takes time, but there's a lot of fun to be had along the way.

my 2 pennies

[Tillek]

Novacaptain said it all I think. Talent is such a strange thing, along with creativity. I think the problem for a lot of people is that they see artists and think of them as special, born with a skill that others do not. Then because people think that, they tell themselves they don't have that skill and that's it.

In all truth, anybody can be a good artist. It just takes time and determination. It helped me to read some books about creativity and artists. If your just starting out, try reading Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards. Or Art & fear by David Bayles & Ted Orland.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Tranzer]

Thanks to all opinions.....

Yes... I agree with you... but I still think there is some gift from some parent. Because, if you have a parent that are talented artist some of his/hers children may be good at painting. I know a family that contains 10 children ( yea thats true =) ) and 9 of them are very talented in painting/drawing. You can see that in early ages.

But I also think you can practise alot to develop the feeling.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Tranzer ]

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: Tranzer ]

[Novacaptain]

It is likely, however, in the case you mentioned that the parents encourage their children to draw. Perhaps the children, admiring their first role-models, will try to develop some artistic skills "to be just like mommy or daddy".

So either way it's not some genetic inheritage or "atristic blood" that make the 9/10 kids become good artists. It's learning at an early age (which is commonly easier).

I think that this system of thought is very discouraging to those that don't descend from a family of great masters of visual art. I'd go as far as to say that it is even an excuse for not taking oneself seriously. Somewhat like going to battle with an "it's ok to lose" mentality ok, poor analogy - i admit - but I believe I've made my point at least.

[Ahcri]

Ok, I've just about had all I can take. Every time someone asks this question is because they are cynical or have low self esteem and they are not willing to accept that they can be a good artist some day. If you keep thinking that you don't have talent, you won't ever become good at art. Aarrgg!

(This is supposed to be said in a screaming basketball coach kind of way, just want to make sure you know that )

[Tillek]

Could you make it a drill sargent voice please? I've never had a basketball coach.

[Akab]

This really reminds me of the message in the psx game Metal Gear Solid, where you may get the best genes but it only dictates your potential. How far you go is up to you.

Sorry if it has little bearing on the subject at hand but the urge to throw it out was irresistible! (and I can't help but wonder if the old masters were able to max out their so called potential. And should we be able to carry on further because these geniuses have paved the way for us?)

[morphgfx]

I agree to Novacaptain and others. I think everybody is able to reach whatever he wants if he just believes in hisself, has no doubt that he CAN do it and works HARD. It's just a matter of interest or love to something (drawing/art for instance). Some people have this interest from an early age, some not. Maybe they just loved copying the shape of things or grandma always said "ohh... how wonderful!! draw another one!!". Every child draws to a cartain age, most stop because of they are frustrated that they are not able to make it look like they want to do (this is at the age of 10-12 usually, when they start to try to draw realy realistic and just end up saying "oh, i just can't draw", like most adults will answer to you, if ask them to draw anything).

Concerning "if your parents are great artists you might become one, too": None of Frazetta's children or grandchildren share his urge to draw, paint and create. Frank and his wife never forced their children to draw. they observed if they notice a strong interest in drawing in one of their children and if not let them make their own thing. its just a matter of influences to a certain degree (like in the grandma example above).

[Svanur]

If you started to draw when you were 17 while some wunderkid began while he was 12 means that he only began 5 years earlier. The kid has 5 years ahead of you which means you have to work harder to get to his level, but that doesn't mean that you have no chance of being as good as him. On the other hand if you train as hard as the kid himself than he will always be 5 kids ahead of you.(I wonder if anything of this made sense :P )

I think a trust in one self is a rare thing, it's even something I lack :P

[morphgfx]

@Svanur: yes it made sense and i do absolutely agree to it. Learning could be easier at an early age, though.

I just wanted to add that there's nothing wrong with watching Friends...

[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: morphgfx ]

[PixHortHiT]

True, but there are allways exceptions, in any field, there are allways people with a natural "skill" in certain areas, though they may suck in others, I know a lot of people (two or three) with natural skills, really scary ones at that as well.
It may as well be the genepool playing tricks on the rest of us....

[Quasar]

Me and a freind of mine who I grew up with both started drawing when we where 16. We worked hard everyday making our own comic books together and learning art. He had so much more nautral talent them me however he soon passed my skill level and quickly left me in th dust. By the time he was 18 he went to comic con and got a job as a digital colorist for image comics. I did'nt get into pro art until I was 23 almost 5 years after he became a pro. We had both has the same amount of exposure to art. I have no doubt that there is such a thing as nautral talent. I do agree that anyhing can be learned though even art.

[Svanur]

Maybe it's more about learning it right. Maybe your friend was seeing the errors he made and quickly fixed them while you took a longer time fixing them. In an essence everything is about problem solving. If you're mind is focused on it you might get the right answers immediately.

Just a theory, not to be taken seriously :P

[Lunatique]

I see talent as this:

If someone has talent, it's like a race car driver driving a kickass race car.

It someone doesn't have talent, it's like the same driver driving a typical car.

If the talented person is lazy, it's like the kickass car going very slow.

If a not so talented person works hard, it's like the typical car going as fast as it can.

So, the bottom line is: Talent will make a difference, but ultimately, it's how hard you work. The sad truth is, no matter how hard a un-talented person works, he/she will never be able to surpass a talented person who works very hard.

[wigin]

im in this catagory according to luna's theory or metaphore =)

"If the talented person is lazy, it's like the kickass car going very slow"

I would be soo much better than i am now if i would press on the gas a little.. This will change this year hehe.. im going for a oil change and ill be ready to burn rubber.. ive got my act together.. took alot of thinking... Have been figuring out who i am and stuff like taht for the past year..

[Queezy]

I never did like talking about talent all so much, because I feel it bastardizes all the hard work people have to go through to be good artists.

[Tranzer]

I absolutely agree with Lunatique...

there is a talent....some are born with it.. some are not....
If you`re not born with it... you will have to work really hard.. and learn rules, look at drawings made buy talented people.... and practise and practise.........then you will get an experience.... you have learned the rules... how it should be done.. nut you can never bee as good as a really talented person.. this person can really see how it should be.. he has a great feeling in art.. and have an ability to take a picture from head and get it to a paper....

Its like mathematic... some people are born to be good at solve problems etc.. and have a really logistic brain... some other people who has not been born with that talented must work hard... try to understand.. try to learn rules... but they can never be as good as a person that is born with great mathematic/logistic feeling...

Its the same with many things.. also with languages.. some people have very easy to learn new languages.... some people must work hard to see how its build...

Thats my thoughts....

[bigfoot]

Your kidding !!!
You all know you have to be born with creative talent! The talent may vary from
good to great...but, no one can create , if they weren't born with at least some
talent. And once you know you are talented, school simply "fine tune's" it.
Designers have great imagination...yet most cant draw a stick figures.
Illustrators have fantastic drawing ability, yet they may not be able to come up
with great idea's.
The most talented artists are those who have both imagination and talent.
Imagination and talent CAN NOT be taught! You either have it or you don't.
Art Schools make you "more pollished" and expose you to differnt medium.

Think about it, If talent didn't matter, schools wouldn't ask to see portfolio's.

[edible snowman]

Talent and creativity are things people who aren't as good as they want to be use as an excuse. I doubt anyone here is such an authority on the human brain that they can tell people what they can and cannot learn. if you want to do it, do it. if you don't want to work hard enough, tell people you weren't born with enough talent.

[ken]

the way i see it (and i just thought of this), no one can deny that every person is born with the ability to love. i feel that art (in all forms) is the same thing, perhaps because art is a love of life.

somehow i feel that paragraph should be longer, but i guess that's it. talent is like a headstart, an intuition, but in the end artistic ability is available to anyone.

not everyone can be as technically precise as michaelangelo or as unique as dali, but i think we all have it in ourselves to express ourselves honestly.

great discussion. i love lunatique's analogy - i'd be the guy doing doughies in pit lane. or the guy who looks worried because he's not sure what car he's in.

[Nathan Marciniak]

You have to stick with what you enjoy doing and what you have a natural-born, albeit possibly unrefined ability to do. I believe people are indeed born with innate abilities. Your environment and desire to learn and improve decides how refined those abilities become. Also, it's important to be comfortable with your own level of skill and realize that even if you can't draw like "so and so" that it's okay. It's all relative; people will look at stuff I've drawn and think it's amazing where I think it's really weak and underdeveloped. You never know - everyone has different variations on what is "good" and what isn't. So your own attitude about your talent is important I think. Everyone is their own worst critic, but this is not a very good feeling! At some level you have to be happy with what you can draw NOW, and then you can improve from there.

[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Nathan Marciniak ]