[Malachi Maloney]

Ok, I've been painting pin-ups for a little while now. While I think I'm getting much better at creating a "photo realistic" painting as far as anatomy, skin, hair, etc. are concerned.....Now I want to develop a style that will really give my work that extra bite that it needs to be really great.
One thing I'm going to start doing is playing around a lot more with lighting during my photo shoots, to create more atmosphere. However, nice lighting can only do so much. Pretty much every type of costume/look has been done a million times by now. Tattoos, piercings, leather, pvc, sheer stuff, lace, you see where I'm going with this......It's ALL been done already.
So where does this leave me? I'm obsessed with art, I'm obsessed with painting the female form and the thought/aspiration to become a professional pin-up artist consumes nearly my every free moment.
So how can I make my work special? How can I make a huge impact in this industry?
I have a favor to ask all of you. I'm posting three paintings in this thread, by three different pin-up artists who's work I greatly admire. What I would like you to do is tell me what you like and dislike about each one of them. I'd like you to tell me what strong points you think each artist has and what areas you think they could use improvement in. The first two artist who's work you'll see use traditional methods in composing their art work. The last artist paints his works in Photoshop.
Finally, I'll be posting one of my paintings and I would like you to compare it to the works above it by the pros. In what areas is my piece lacking? What could I improve on. What are my strong points?
What I'm looking to do here is make my work as good as if not better than the best in the industry. I want to be able to compete with these titans in their arena.
Any help would be much appreciated.

Here are 3 different pin-ups by 3 different pros in the field.

Hajime Sorayama

Olivia

Drew Posada

And here is one of my pieces for comparison.
My Work

Remember, I'm looking on ways to improve the style of my work. I need an edge.

Any suggestions/advice would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Malachi

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Malachi Maloney ]

[SporQ]

Malachi,

ive always liked your pinups. i think the big difference that i see between yours and the three you posted is depth to the forms. all three of those have a lot of depth to thier women. yours have always seemed flat, pardon my saying so. sort of like a bunch of cutouts of construction paper laid on top of each other. sort of a south park look

and i dont really think this is bad. in fact, as a style, i like it better than the three others you posted. but if you want more depth to your paintings, i would suggest doing a lot of practice with things like craigs matte cube exercise. stuff like that will help develop your sense of form. another simple way to add more depth would be to increase the value range in your paintings. make the shadows darker, the highlights lighter.

just 2 cents from a fellow student. keep up the good work man, i love your stuff.

[c]

i honestly think taking life drawing and painting would help you a lot. cept sometimes you will have to buckle down and draw guys instead of just girls .

[Sumaleth]

Only thing I can think of, and it may only be for some of your stuff and not all of it, is that some of your images tend to look a bit too much like a copied photograph. They dont have that illustrative quality that the samples you included have.

Row.

[Steven Stahlberg]

Hm, out of those I like Drew's and yours best, not much I can suggest improving in yours except maybe how her legs fade out. Here's a good link to lots of erotic artists: http://www.cybercomm.nl/~vandeijk/eaindex/eaindex.htm
And this guy is good too: http://www.marcusgray.com/
Good for fashion ideas: http://home.planetinternet.be/~martins/

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Steven Stahlberg ]

[aquamire]

Well, if you want to go for something different, look at different kinds of art, old and new, and seek qualities in them that you like. Perhaps you like the curviness and organic qualities of art noveau (sp?), and maybe Frank Frazetta's strong poses. Find a middle ground between the two and extend them to the point of exageration. What about a woman do you find the most appealing? We're not just talking physical attributes, but what of her personality? Mix some of that in to. Think of it like mixing paint on your palette. Get a mix of subtelty and outrageousness in there. Get what I'm saying?

[J-D Leon]

great art, great artist,
but different style. seriously u can't easily tell the diferent. but it does exist.

may I give u some of my thoughts that might push u to another limit.
1) your arts are nearly perfect.(i mean it seem like it doesn't exit in this world. it is soo clean.so perfect. making it looks unreal) (ever think about adding some winkle and a few piece of small dust?)

2) some minor part of the picture is also important. (from the pic that u post, her cloth is almost look likes just black ink)

here is the thought about your style:
1) unique, ur looks totaly different from others it really stand out..
2) there is nothing u need to change. i can't find a scrath from your picture. thats your strong point.
3) UR arts seem slightly lighter.. (more contrast in the skin tone would make the woman look more healthy and fansy)

5) last point. try to draw something using other artists' style. TRY IT!! then u will understand what u should keep and what u should change.


I m not a great artist. but i have two eyes. u can listen to my words if u like, it sure will help

last thing. same object but different style could result different score. idont think urs is any less than the other artist.

keep up the good work

[Leo]

Well just think is it really need to simulate photo? Don't simply paint/copy pixel by pixel trying to impress everyone around you - try to say something in your art, express your feelings, emotions etc.
luck

-leo

[Affected]

Personally, I much preferred yours to the three others you posted. I really like the way you do skin, somehow. Regarding the depth, though, it seems a little odd that the figure doesn't really cast any shadows on herself... She's basically hunched over her thighs, and yet her torso or arms dont cast a shadow?

[Quasar]

Also look at books by Luis Royo he is a great artist with female erotica and he has that extra something you are talking about.
http://www.luisroyo.com/

[goldnarmz]

i think some of you guys are over critical, i think Malachi style is very nice(personally i like it out of the three other artist),... its just a matter of taste, if you have look at some of his early works it didnt have that clean look, i think it was a choice he made to change his style.

[SporQ]

goldnarmz, he asked us to be critical. he wanted to know how his style differs from the others. nobody said that he sucks. i think everybody is saying that he IS good, and are just pointing out how his style differs from the examples he posted. personally, i think he does have a great style and doesnt need to change to be more like his inspirations. but he feels the need to grow as an artist and asked for some help, nobody is attacking him, just trying to help.

[Silverwolf]

Hey..

First of all, as far as I know, pin up artists are as rare as hens teeth, and most of the ones that are around really don't do all that much work in the field, especially overy the last 5 years or so... It's kinda like the painted pin up died in the 80's or something, I don't know. Anyways.....

One of the more innovative pin up artists to come out recently, (over the last 5 years or so), has been Tim Bradstreet, have a look at some of his stuff. (He's a tracer by the way, but he can draw if he puts his nut to it...). I think he really took off because there was a lot of candidness in his pics, a bit of humanity so to speak. And it might just be me but it seems a lot of pinup/portrait photography is going that way as well. "Exploring the human form" has been done to death, or at least done to death lately and maybe it needs a bit of a break. It seems that the humanity/personality in the photo is taking place of this, as it conveys more than "oooooo, pretty!".

Sorry, got a little carried away there...

Ahem.. Your style usually has to change for the job your doing, as I said, pinup's for pinup sake seem to be getting rarer. Will you move into advertising, movie posters book covers etc... The way that I see it the job your working on a lot of the time determines more about the style of the picutre than the style of the artist, play around a little.

As for the style you've been working with I personally detest it a lot! Don't take that too hard, it's just that I have this passionate hatred for single frontal flash photos. They have no depth and they tend to bleed/desaturate colors like nothing else.

If I can make a few suggestions...

You seem to shoot inside a lot try a couple of these things and see how you like the effects, and they won't cost you a cent...(ok maybe a couple but hey...suffer for your art! )

Take an ordinary credit card, some blue tack, (you guys have blue tack in America? You use it to stick posters on walls and stuff...just not sure if it's called that over there...), and maybe some aluminium foil. Stick the blue tack onto your camera a little below your flash, (i'm assuming its built in and cant be rotated). Wrap the card smoothly in tin foil and stick it into the blue tack. Viola you have a flash with an adjustable angle. So what? Well you can bounce the flash off of the roof or a wall now. This makes the primary source of the light appear to not come from the camera but from above. Also it diffuses the light, making the shadows a lot softer.

The other thing is that you can ad a kicker to the photos with a large peice of matte white cardboard, (watercolor rag is great), and bouncing the flash off of that to create a secondary light source comming from the side or to the rear of the model.

Keep in mind that the more bounces that you have the less light you have and you may need to increase the range of the flash, (look in your camera book, there should be some settings for your flash and you can work it out from there, but you need a setting that requires more light, ie the model is further away), have a play with it. You may have enough with the initial settings.

When I'm shooting reference, (usually for everyone else!!!), I use 3 or 4 500W halogen garden lamps that I picked up for about $10 each. I had to wire them up tho, and I also wired up 4 500W dimmers onto a board for convenience sake, but you don't have to go that far.

Also, and I think someone else mentioned this in the finished forum, try shooting outside with and without a reflector. You can also use light colored walls and floors, (like shiny tiles at a mall or something), to get thish many light source things happen.

Anyway, I hope some of this helps, go and have a look at a heap of portrait or fine art nude photo's you'll get the idea. Playing with light is a heap of fun, and I've found that it is sooooooooooooo much easier to work from well lit photo's when you need the reference.

Have fun!

[Malachi Maloney]

Thank you all so much for taking the time out of your day/night to try and help me with this. It's very much appreciated.
Honestly, I can't think of one other place where I can get as much constructive advice and so many varied opinions from different artist. As an artist resource, sijun just can't be beet.
I don't really know what to say. I mean, I'm going to take all of your advice to hart and I'm going to keep working on improving my style/technique with every painting I create.

But, I think I should at least thank all of you individually to show my gratitude.
Here goes.......

SporQ~ I don't know about the SouhtPark thing, but whatever you get from my art's fine with me. So long as you're enjoying it.
As far as lighting and depth go....I think it's the general census of opinion that I need to work harder in both of those areas. Which is something I'm currently working on improving in my new piece.
Thanks again for the comments.

c~ Yes, I know. I would love to go back to school, but it's just not a possibility for me right now. I've got myself and another person to support, rent, car payments, yada, yada, yada. Maybe after things settle down some. I honestly can't see being able to go back to school for at least a few years.
Would be nice though. =/

Sumaleth~ Thanks for the advice.

Steven~ Wow. That's a really huge complement. Especially from an artist of your caliber. Thank you.
Thanks very much for the links as well.

aquamire~ Very good advice. I'll definitely take that to hart.

JD Leon~ I will definitely listen to your words. Again, great advice. Thanx for the compliments as well.

Leo~ I don't necessarily agree with you. But you're a great artist, so I'll will think about what you've said. Thanks for the comments.

Affected~ Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely keep working to improve on my lighting skills. Thanks for your kind words as well.

Quasar~ I have many of Mr. Royo's books. He is indeed a great artist.

goldnarmz~ Thanks for the support.

SporQ Part 2~ Well said. And you're right, I do want as much advice as I can get. I very much appreciate the fact that I've gotten so many different opinions from people here.

Silverwolf~ Thanks for all the photography tips. Very useful.
Don't doubt the pin-up industry, it will never die. Pin-up art is as American as apple pie. I personally feel that the pin-up industry is going as strong as ever. People like Olivia are still making tons of money from pin-ups. I mean, she's a millionaire because of pin-up art. Besides, I only want a slice of cheesecake, not the whole cake.
And I agree with you, flash photography sucks. I'm not going to be using it anymore.
Thanks again, for the photo knowledge.

Well, I guess that does it.

Many thanks again to you all.

Take it easy,
Malachi

[theresa]

she looks like she's taking a poo
aahh

hehe

[Malachi Maloney]

I would ask you why you're wasting my time by posting such nonsensical crap in my thread. But, better yet.....Why are you wasting your own time?

Nothing better to do?

M

[tyron]

sorry malachi, but in a way i agree with theresa... the pose you've used is not very sexy at all.. atleast that's what i think. i think that's what differs in your work and the other artists. improve that and you'll take your work to a whole new dimension.

[dave_baer]

Okay, Soryama and Olivia I know, but where do I find this POSADA guy? He's incredible!

I like your pic, but IMHO it looks a bit flat. Hair is exquisitely detailed, face shows form and shading, but things start to fall flat the farther down you go. Is that intentional? What might look good here is a bit of depth-of-field. But all in all, a lot better than what i could do.

[Man With No Name]

Hello,

I've been viewing (enjoying) your progress for some time now and I am very impressed by how much you have improved.

When comparing these artists to yourself I can see one major difference....

Your pictures pretty much look like photographs (with a digitally painted quality.) In "photographs," I mean, a picture that pretty much anybody could take (with your unique skill in getting women to allow you to take said photos of course.)

The majority of these other artist's works usually brings something out-of-the ordinary (exotic) with them. They may start with a refernce photograph but more times than not, they alter the photo to create something a little more exciting (sci-fi, fantasy, lighting changes, exotic clothing, bondage, sexual themes...etc etc.)

Your quality is just as impressive as their's. I think your pics just need to be a little more interesting (that one with the japanese vase was on the right track....)

Hope I've helped in some way. Keep posting your work please, I enjoy viewing it.