[horstenpeter]

Is there a way to learn drawing in colour just as there is a way of learning to draw for a start (You learn proportions, perspective, anatomy) ? I mean is there a basic set of rules to follow when painting in colour ? I've been trying to make the transition from sketching in B/W to painting full colour but so far I've failed. Even when using reference, most of my colours turn out wrong.

[Svanur]

There should be a lot of old posts by Craig and FredFlickstone lying around here that should describe this better.

Only thing I can suggest is practice. Make errors and try to see what's wrong with them.

[Pat]

To answer your question, you should take a crash course in color theory. It will help; it will arm you for painting much as perspective/proportions helped you with drawing.

Why don't you post one of your paintings in W.I.P. and we can give you specific input.

-Pat

[horstenpeter]

I'll post something soon, I just want to take it to the level that I can do before posting

Thanks for the help so far

[horstenpeter]

@Pat, can you recommend any good books on the subject ? I live in a pretty small village, so it'll be kinda hard to find a course in colour theory......the best I can get here are a few life drawing classes....

[Derek]

One thing that is helpful, somewhat intuitive, but hard to do so much is to know that value is really so much more important than actual 'color' can be. Without oversimplifying too much, know that if you get the value right, and that your values are correct relative to others, you can lay in any color.
Okay, of course you will want a good sense of harmony, and to convey that you understand color theory, but there is nothing wrong with doing a series of works in greyscale, making black and white copies, then painting with acrylic over them, matching the value of the colors you have in your copy so that they don't appear lighter or darker than what you are painting them over.
It's a good exercise, and will do a good deal to free you from working too tight or obsessing too much.
Again, this is a simple statement, but there is much to back it up in theory and practice.
In time you will learn about harmonies, themes, temperature and such, but this is a good way to build up your confidence that you can master color.

[spooge demon]

You can handle values, so just bump things a little bit toward one color or another, just slightly off grey.

Also, think about just warm or cool greys to start with. You can get more elaborate later

[Pat]

horstenpeter, for once I can't recommend a good book. I had a color theory teacher who was a real work nazi about the basics. All my color experience comes from that and just playing around with paint, which probably explains my odd sensibility.

Listen to spooge, he knows what he's talking about. My only advice is: the fewer colors you use the easier it is to make them harmonious.

-Pat

[horstenpeter]

Thanks, everyone, your comments are really helpful. It's good to see that people seem to try to bring this forum back to its old value.
I'll try to get something done till monday that I can post in WIP and I'll try to think of the things you said when doing it.

[jeffery]

i think with drawing and painting, you come down to the same basic challenge: draw/paint what you see, not what you think you see.

here's what helps me most: look at the world around you and try to actually figure out the colour & value of things you see. for example, on a sunny day, there's an abundance of light, so everything is saturated with colour. in bright sunlight, your eyes tend to blow everything into really bright brights, and really dark darks, with little in-between. lots of values close to white, lots close to black, all of them saturated with colour. focus on a tree, and see how the conditions affect the way you see it.

an overcast day is the opposite, with more grey, and less saturated colour. how do you see the tree then?

its easier to do this if you let your eyes go a bit out of focus when you're looking. things will be broken down into their colours and values, rather than thinking, "i'm looking at a leaf."

once you've dissected something this way, i think its easier to paint it, without getting hung up on making it look "like a tree."

[Duracel]

Yep, i called it "learn how to see".
(german: "sehen lernen")

Thats the point in my eyes. If you want to paint it right, look how it looks like.

Childs often draw a tree not like a tree really looks like, they just draw one rectangular trunk and some branches at the top of this rectangle, 'cause they ever see "aaah, there's a trunk" and "aaah, there are branches" but they don't look at the connection between both.
Same as sails, children doesnt draw the rope connect it with the boat. ...etc.

Of Course you now it, but imho the Problem is the same just a level finer.

[horstenpeter]

One question for you guys. Do I get it right that to start painting you should have a fully worked out greyscale sketch (as in totally shaded) to have a reference from which to read the right values for the colors ?
I usually do outline sketches only so I will have to spend more time on the sketches I guess.

[Derek]

For me it kind of depends. If I'm working on an illustration that is going to be full color, it does help to have a grayscale painting to help me work out a lot of problems. Lightsources, drawing, scale, etc... so it can be a very useful tool. Plus, once you worked out your value and edge transitions color's easy, right?
Right?
Heh.
Now, the other side of this can be direct painting, where you have a limited amount of time with a live subject (great training for color) or if you're in an environment where you simply don't have the time to do a progression up to teh final piece. In the first case, maybe you want a more cavalier attitude. In the second, perhaps a very good drawing done with masses (tones, grays) will be better than nothing.

[jeffery]

i've always been more comfortable with lineart, so when i started doing paintings i always had a line sketch underneath. when i got the guts to ditch the sketch & just start painting, i found that i saved a lot of time.. you don't have to worry about converting lines to masses, values to colours, etc.. but thats just me. everyone does it differently.

[blurry_6]

I know what you're sayin'. I had some problems with the transition as well and after a lot of reading, searching and tossing brushes across the room I realized that I was treating paint in the same manner as charcoal or graphite, which it's not. I was spending too much time dinking with the lines of my underpainting, trying to get the same line quality out of a No.10 brush that I was getting out of an HB pencil. Needless to say, these efforts were futile and I was becoming more and more frustrated. Not only were my lines not working out, but I found that my color choices suffered as a result. In my line work I'd attempt to account for the color transitions, thinking that was what was missing, but it only became more confusing.

Then something clicked when I totally forgot about 'line' and only looked at 'shape'. When I broke my paintings into basic color-shapes it started coming together. I also realized I didn't have to nail the color, modeling, and shape in the first pass. I learned to block in 'all' the shapes first, paying attention only to their relationship to one another on the canvas, then I'd go back over what I'd done and add additional modeling and correct the color relationships.

By working on 'everything' at once and 'building-up' the painting in multiple passes my paintings started coming together. Hope this helps.