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Topic : "Ignorant Art Teachers..." |
Chin junior member
Member # Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 29
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 8:52 pm |
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So I'm in a simple college Art class.
At the most advanced level you just decide on a medium and the teacher grades you on whatever you come up with.
Me: "Can I do some digital stuff? I'm getting a tablet really soon."
Teacher: "Oh no" *chuckles condescendingly* "that digital stuff does all the work for you."
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waylon member
Member # Joined: 05 Jul 2000 Posts: 762 Location: Milwaukee, WI US
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:02 pm |
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In a sense, he's right. It's easier for someone with no talent to make a passable picture on the computer than it is for the same person to make a picture with paint.
Put some effort into convincing him. Tell him what tools you plan on using, and how you're going to use them. If that still doesn't work, well, painting is a lot of fun too. ![](http://www.sijun.com/dhabih/ubb/smile.gif) |
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Painted Melody member
Member # Joined: 25 Dec 2000 Posts: 138 Location: NJ, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:32 pm |
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Ya.. He has his point -- the multiple UNDOS, Layers, and organization can really help boost productivity, but not a better painter.
Anyhow, assuming at an advanced level you'll be familiar with various mediums (paint, graphite, charcoal, etc), why not veer from the road and do mixed media?
Modern artists have established their niche by scanning in a painting, doing digital work on it, printing out the work, painting on it, then re-scanning it back in. You can create some neat effects with this.
Maybe he'll dig it...
~PM
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D u s t T r a c k s |
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marc_taro member
Member # Joined: 27 Sep 2000 Posts: 128 Location: Boston
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2001 10:38 pm |
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I think his point may be more about learning the basics before worrying about the computer skills. It's not like you can give up working on your drawing, just because the computer is so cool. Just do the trad. stuff for him, and the digital stuff for yourself. It won't hurt you to practice the old school....
marc_taro |
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Chin junior member
Member # Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 29
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 9:48 am |
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Well yeah, of course doing digital stuff exclusively would be really stupid...
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It's easier for someone with no talent to make a passable picture on the computer than it is for the same person to make a picture with paint. |
Passable. That's not saying much.
If anything I think doing stuff digitally just gives you more freedom, lets you take more risks, experiment more, and doesn't take as much time.
You know the expression, "Like watching paint dry"? I don't like doing that
Besides, I'm in the advanced course. I've already been through "the basics".
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Tell him what tools you plan on using, and how you're going to use them. |
I did that too... At length. Trust me, he's ignorant. This guy was talking in class yesterday about how he hopes to one day learn how to use e-mail...
[/edit]
[This message has been edited by Chin (edited April 11, 2001).] |
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Ben Barker member
Member # Joined: 15 Sep 2000 Posts: 568 Location: Cincinnati, Ohier
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:04 pm |
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People say that about 3D stuff too. That it 'does all the work for you'. They used to say that about photography.
My digital design fundamentals teacher, a person who knows about 3D software, told me that "3D stuff is easy. Once you know which buttons to press, a 10 year old could do it."
I could have socked his punk ass, but I figure it's better to just let him live in his little world. |
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roundeye member
Member # Joined: 21 Mar 2001 Posts: 1059 Location: toronto
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:16 pm |
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i agree with you completely chin. its just a tool. it may make it easier to do crap than before.
he has no point. so whatd you tell him?
someone mentioned photography. as well, digital music has gotten the same bad rap.
[This message has been edited by roundeye (edited April 11, 2001).] |
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Chin junior member
Member # Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 29
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:41 pm |
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he has no point. so whatd you tell him? |
I laughed nervously because I thought he was kidding, then he walked off straight-faced. |
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edible snowman member
Member # Joined: 12 Sep 2000 Posts: 998
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:42 pm |
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i got the same thing from my teacher recently. and she doesnt know anything about painting, or computers in general. she just instantly assumed that because a computer was involved, it didnt take any skill. there are definately some things that are advantages to using the computer, but there are disadvantages to. about 3d though, i think it is a skill to learn, but in comparison to traditional art skills and painting, it is less difficult. but it should not at all be discounted as art like some people automatically do. |
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travis travis member
Member # Joined: 26 Jan 2001 Posts: 437 Location: CT, USA
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:35 pm |
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maybe a 14-year old hack can get instant results with a computer... within a very small confines of what filters and toy programs like Poser there are. I'd say the fogies aught to get off their ass and find out the state of computer art, because they are right to tear apart lamers that are trying to pass off any generated effects as part of art... but other then that it takes pure traditional skills creating digital paintings -- and if they can't differentiate then they shouldn't be in charge of your education |
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Red Leader member
Member # Joined: 06 Apr 2001 Posts: 276 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 6:50 pm |
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I think you have a good oppourtunity in school to learn the basics traditionally...
Why? BECAUSE of the freedom you get on the computer.
When painting traditionally, you have a more limited palette, and you have to learn to "do it right the first time"...trust me, this is an advantage later on in digital life.
However, this said, your instructor not allowing you to turn in ANY digital work at all shows he's an idiot.
This is the kind of thing I was bitching about in Isric's "I got accepted" thread in "Finished work." Grumble.
Having real life painting skills is good for the digital world later on too.. lots of backgrounds, base painting and stuff look much cooler hand done. Can't hurt...
Hopefully you'll have time for both trad. and digital painting... |
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Anthony member
Member # Joined: 13 Apr 2000 Posts: 1577 Location: Winter Park, FLA
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:05 pm |
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I had two art teachers in HS. One was a sculpter and one a photographer. Neither knew how to draw.
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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem |
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Ben Barker member
Member # Joined: 15 Sep 2000 Posts: 568 Location: Cincinnati, Ohier
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2001 4:31 am |
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about 3d though, i think it is a skill to learn, but in comparison to traditional art skills and painting, it is less difficult. but it should not at all be discounted as art like some people automatically do.[/B] |
Yeah, I agree. But this guy is a 3D guy, period. In fact, one time he told me "I can't draw worth a shit." He should know better. I just assumed all of his stuff was on a 10 year old's level
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Freddio Administrator
Member # Joined: 29 Dec 1999 Posts: 2078 Location: Australia
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2001 6:52 am |
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My School art Teacher encourages digital art...
infact we just did a few pieces on the computer.
He is also organising a graphic artist to come in and do a workshop with us. |
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Lunatique member
Member # Joined: 27 Jan 2001 Posts: 3303 Location: Lincoln, California
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2001 7:42 pm |
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I think there is a general misunderstanding/lack of priority here about digital/non-digital art. Before you start being concerned about the ignorance that others display about digital art, you need to just worry about ONE thing, and that is being a good ARTIST. As a good artist, you should be able to come up with a great looking piece of work whether I give you a lime-green colored crayon, or a shitty 486 PC with a 2mb graphics card and 16 colors on a 15" monitor. I see too many discussions/complains on this forum regarding the whole "digital" issue. I really hope many of the younger artists here would just take a big step back and look at the big picture: you are an ARTIST, period. What you use is just a tool. The talent is IN you. If I take away your computer, you should still be able to produce great art. If you have to have a computer to produce artwork, then you really need to rethink your priorities as an "artist."
Make it your goal to be able to produce a stunning piece of artwork with even just a plain pencil and scrap paper. If you can get to that point, you're already above and beyond the whole issue of "digital."
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edible snowman member
Member # Joined: 12 Sep 2000 Posts: 998
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2001 8:01 pm |
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lunatique brings up a point i've been thinking about lately. and it's that as i work on my art i don't want to get labeled as someone who only does it "this" way. it's great to know many different styles, and how to use many mediums. the only style im concerned about in the long run is just being good. |
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micke member
Member # Joined: 19 Jan 2000 Posts: 1666 Location: Oslo/Norway
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2001 9:22 pm |
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Lunatique: I could'nt agree more.
Without an artist eye, the tool is useless |
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Chin junior member
Member # Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 29
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Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2001 11:39 pm |
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Lunatique:
Yep.
And as one of many tools, digital art doesn't need to be discriminated against. It is just as viable as a pencil and a piece of paper. |
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waylon member
Member # Joined: 05 Jul 2000 Posts: 762 Location: Milwaukee, WI US
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2001 5:37 pm |
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I still hold by my earlier statement, that it's easier for a novice to do good digital art than it is for a novice to do good traditional art. I mean... try painting some realistic looking mountains using Gouache, then load up Bryce and attempt the same thing. Chances are, if you know what you're doing, you'll be able to create a much more interesting and unique piece using gouache - BUT, any third grader can play with bryce for an hour, and with no artistic talent, can create a decent looking mountain range.
I realize this is a very specific example, and doesn't necessarily apply to your current art project. So say you rendered your scene in Max or Maya and painted over it. Or scanned in a photo, and used that for your color palette. Yes, you need to have some basic level of skill to use Photoshop to draw successfully. But computers are starting to cross the line of replacing artistic skill with software, and it's very difficult for someone who isn't deeply involved with comptuers to determine exactly how much of the work is the artist's, and how much is "tools".
One more thing. Someone mentioned the fact that your clients don't care WHAT tools you use, as long as the finished product looks good. That's absolutely true, and in that case, there's nothing wrong with using every tool available to you. But in the case of your art classes, the finished product is NOT the primary goal - improving your skill is. If your teacher doesn't want you to use a pink eraser, it may be because he's trying to teach you to do it right the first time. And damned if that isn't a useful skill. |
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travis travis member
Member # Joined: 26 Jan 2001 Posts: 437 Location: CT, USA
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2001 9:38 pm |
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quote: Originally posted by Lunatique:
or a shitty 486 PC with a 2mb graphics card and 16 colors on a 15" monitor.
YEEEEEEEEHAAWWW!
http://gfxzone.planet-d.net/
(check the 8-bit stuff in the archives, lots of fucking great stuff)
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GreenPeach Guest
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2001 10:15 pm |
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this is a great topic. both sides say things that are true.
-it IS easier (more convenient) to create images on the computer.
-art skills determin the quality of your work, regardless of medium.
so which way do I vote? call me oldfasioned but when your trying to learn- you'll learn the most by doing it the hard way. and when I say hard I mean the most direct, least abstracted, most thoughtfull and laborious way. |
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Holly Jolly member
Member # Joined: 07 Apr 2001 Posts: 100 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2001 11:14 pm |
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How can it be cheap, or wrong to use digital art. How can a art teacher say no? Its art, and if a easier way to create that art is easier, why can't you use it? I know that sounds dumb, and it is. Art is changing, companies could care less how you do it, as long as it looks the best. Your art teacher is saying this in a way: "no you can't use a pink peril eraser because its better then the old ones, so you can't use it." |
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Justin Kramer member
Member # Joined: 03 Nov 2000 Posts: 143 Location: Ithaca, NY
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Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2001 11:09 pm |
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All that really matters is the end-product. If a work communicates something authentic, who cares how it was made?
That said, a computer can be used as a crutch. It's usually apparent when someone is using it as such, though, so it'd be your own loss if you rely too heavily on it. The best artistic advice I know of I learned from the stock market: diversify!
Chin: you should sit your teacher down in front of a computer (or bring the computer to him) and show him why it's a valid medium. If he's computer illiterate, explaining it verbally probably won't make any sense to him. Maybe he would change his mind if he can actually see how it's done.
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