[Starseed]

I wrote this on another board a while back. Its philosophical. I'd be interested in hearing why you agree/disagree:


"What we do in life, echoes in eternity," is a line I remember from the film Gladiator. I may have the wording wrong, but I think this is close. I talked about this line with a friend of mine who provided me the enlightening fact that this statement cannot be true.

Here is the logic. Humanity will not live forever. As the universe all started as energy (some may dispute, and I'll be glad to argue ) As the universe all started with energy, it will also end with just energy. My belief is that that the universe in its entirity will compress into a tight little ball of energy the size of nothing. My friend pointed out, that all the choices and actions of humanity upon the universe will not be discernable when the the universe becomes energy again. Our actions, no matter how grand throughout the universe, will no echo through eternity.

I pointed out to him, that the reality we know, is our eternity, and therefore this statement is true considering the term 'eternity' is actually referring to the relative eternity we will be a part of.

But, what we do in life will not echo through true eternity.

This revelation made me, at least, stand back and think about it for a moment. It's like spending a week as a child building your lego castle, only to know that at the end of the week, your older brother will be home from summer camp and he will destroy the castle. The fact that all humanity accomplishes will vanish (at least in the physical sense) and in its place will be energy shouldn't concern us though, and its more likely that we be sucked into a passing black hole before the universe we know is reborn into another being's eternity.


I am especially interested in what everyone's thoughts are on this.

-mt


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everything is relative

[PandaX52]

that's what religion is for! I think religion gives people faith in the fact that they will be immortal and/or be acknowledged by some sort of god in armageddon. The power of belief is astounding. I dont practice any religion, I think it's important to view the world with as open mind as possible...as for the universe in an energy state, I dont think that will happen in a LOOONG time, but even if our race still exists at that time, i don't think I can really make any good guesses at all, anything could happen...

[Impaler]

What you do in life = everything you do in life.

Echoes in eternity = In a sense, history is eternal. And an echo isn't the real thing, it's just a copy, a retelling.

What you do in life will be recorded in history.

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My signature is slightly better than yours.

[the_monkey]

sigh...another one of these posts..

i think that what we do in life, does echo an eternity, cuz what i do, make right or wrong choices, will reflect upon me eternally. i know alot of people dont belive that, and thats fine.

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Maho: the online Comic

tradgedy is when i cut my finger.
comedy is when i fall down a manhole and die.

[This message has been edited by the_monkey (edited February 16, 2001).]

[Krazykate]

We are all contributing to the heat death of the universe-man will kill himself off long before that happens-we are all affecting people around us all the time!

Life is the Childhood of our Imortality...there are things in you that you have only caught glimpses of, there is much more than just this shell.

[Starseed]

Panda -

Right. Religion helps here But most who follow a religion will never even ponder these things that religion creates absolutes for. I think everyone should understand where we are creating absolutes, like right and wrong, to eliminate all of the unwanted 'chaos'.

Impaler -

You miss the point. I'm taking this quote literally and saying why it can't be true. In a sense, human history is eternal. Yes, a relative eternity where it lives as long as either the human race exists or as long as the universe exists (in this form). But nothing we will ever accomplish will "echo in eternity". Even the copies or retelling like you put it will not even exist. What you do in life will be recorded in history, but that history will not be eternal.

Monkey -

I find it hilarious that you introduce your comments with the phrase "sigh...another one of these posts.." What you go on to say proves you know nothing about what I'm getting at and probably haven't pondered it for longer than it took you to write that message. First, there is no right or wrong choice (in the grand scheme of things, of course). Second, your choices will mean nothing when the universe energizes again. If you believe that you will be eternal (in some form) and your choices will affect your immortal afterlife . . . then I would agree with you. But your continued existence after your physical death can't be proven.

Krazy -

I agree, we'll kill ourselves or be killed long before the end of our known universe. You're also getting at the same afterlife thing that Monkey was.

I have a question for you, do you believe a tree will exist in the 'afterlife' world?

-mt

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everything is relative

[A.Buttle]

Where the hell is Camulod, or am I missing something?

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Joe Dillingham
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by your mutha (edited April 15, 197-deuce).]

[the_monkey]

you know what, i have pondered this alot. and yes, there are right and wrong choices, sure in the grand scheme of things, they may seem insignifigant, but they do reflect upon you eternally.

[Starseed]

quote

Quote:

Where the hell is Camulod, or am I missing something?

Camelot. One author's idea of how it was likely really spelled based on the truncation of a longer Roman name. No, I'm not from Camelot, or Britain.


The Monkey:

If you've pondered this a lot, I'd be interested in how you came to the conclusing that their are right and wrong choices? Was it a gut feeling or is it something you can share? I'm approaching this from a very serious angle without any room for what 'feels' right

-mt


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everything is relative

[Ian]

NO ONE WILL EVER REMEMBER YOU. YOUR NAME WILL NEVER BE METNIONED IN A HISTORY BOOK. YOU WILL DIE AND NO ONE WILL CARE. YOUR LIFE WILL NOT ECHO INTO INFINITY, IT WILL FADE INTO NOTHINGNESS.

[Ian]

yes YOU

[Ragnarok]

Strenght and Honor.

[the_monkey]

i belive that there is a moral code, which includes right and wrong choices. this moral code is evident in every civilization, but ours is different. being plagued by wealth and fleeting happniess, we have had time to absorb the pleasures and indecentsies that this earth has to offer. look through history, native tribes kill those who cheat on their spouces (or the one they have commited too, you get my drift) people have had crimes and punishments throughout every civilization.

now how can this be? is there one organized sence of whats right and whats wrong? sure, its inbred into our minds. would u feel no wrong in killing someone else?

as loud said, these are just my beliefs, i dont intend to change yours.

(ps, i suck at spelling)

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Maho: the online Comic

tradgedy is when i cut my finger.
comedy is when i fall down a manhole and die.

[Loud]

I will now use the word "belief" 400 times...

Posts like this are based purely on beliefs. We aren't able to prove one way or the other, you can only trust in what you believe.

My belief is that this world and others were organized, for everything to just come about and exist as it does by accident or random mutations makes no sense to me. I believe this world is a step in an eternal progression. I believe we're here to have joy, and to experience this physical world. To have joy we were given guidelines. Some think that these guidelines prevent us from having joy, but I beleive that rather than confining us, they set us free and give true joy. I believe we will be able to create worlds like this of our own, but to do so we have to comply with the requirements and follow these guidelines to be able to have that authority. No one is perfect, perfectness in itself is defined by your beliefs, but I believe we must try to be 'perfect' to have the fullness of joy of this world, and what is to come. With my beliefs then, what we do in life does echo in eternity.

Notice I start every sentance with I believe, because what I believe is not your belief, it is not fact. The facts that we know are only based on this world, we know no facts of what was before, or what is coming after this life, that's where faith lies.

That, in my opinion, is why we have to decide for ourselves what is 'right' or 'wrong', and those decisions come with consequences, good or bad.

Good or bad decisions, hmmm... think about this.

If you're religious and spend your whole life doing what you beleive to be right, avoiding all of the 'bad' things and find out that in the end, we just die, and that's it, cease to exist. You'd have wished that you spent your life partying and enjoying those 'bad' things.

But if you find that life goes on and there is a whole Eternity ahead of you, and that eternity was dictated by the choices you made in life you'll be happy you believed what you did.

And vice versa, I'm sure you understand in the case of a non-religious person.

Which is why, again, I think we can only believe for ourselves.

That is simply my belief, you can believe what you want. My belief will not change, and I will not try to change your beliefs.

[Starseed]

Yes, beliefs is something most arugments can come down to. I wanted to approach this from an angle that everyone (who accepts science as something we can generally agree on more than other things) would argue the subject (the title) of this post on a common ground. Common sense, and science. . . I'm not looking for right/wrong or good/bad . . . but is this quote possible according to what we accept now to be the definition of the universe, generally?

-mt

[sacrelicious]

Scientifically, it is possible that the essence of what we are will continue indefinitely after our physical deaths. If we have "souls," they may be scientifically explicable phenomena; energy matrices perhaps, or something else completely beyond our current understanding. If this were true then they would continue to exist (since energy and matter can be neither created or destroyed) as long as the universe itself exists. As for our actions and how they reflect on those eternal souls, well, who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

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Weaseling out of things is what separates us from the animals... except the weasel.

[Typo Dave]

Does it matter?

We have no proof on the existence of the hereafter.

There are so many theories, one of which might be right and the rest wrong, so how can I choose which path will lead me to a perfect state?

Therefore I choose to disregard it.

This doesn't obviate me from behaving in a way which, by the dictates of my own conscience, are good and just.

I answer to myself and to those I love.

If I have got it wrong, then I'll pay for it after my death, but I'm prepared to take that risk.

I show the utmost respect for other people's beliefs, because:

1. they might be right

2. even if they're not, tolerance and respect are virtues.

[Ian]

Here is my 2 cents. The "soul" that is you? It craves immediate pleasure and nurturing. It evolves and learns and is pleased quite easily. And herein lies the rub: The "Soul" does not care about being remembered. That is the ego's job. Has the "ego" ever made you feel nurtured or loved? The ego is a black hole that is impossible to please. In other words. Live TURE to thine own self and work to improve and nurture YOURSELF and do not worry about fame fortune or rememberance, only love, understanding, and learning. (imho )
-ian

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Sit on my face, and tell me that you LOVE me!

[Typo Dave]

So there is a difference between "soul" and "ego"?

So is "self-respect" and "self-love" part of "ego" or "soul"?

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