[S4Sb]

I always have problems with colours. Penceling is easy. But when it comes to colouring I really suck. Can someone tell me how you choose your colours? For example skin tones. I for myself always get some fine skinny skintone.. and for lighter I make that tone more to white and for shadow more to black... but that looks so weak and monoton. Now I see lot'S of people (yeah Gecko that is the result of your chameleon ) who choose at all different colours for light and shadow...

How you know what does fit?

I'm not talking bout lightning

------------------
Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[This message has been edited by S4Sb (edited January 29, 2001).]

[Big Pa]

Yeah, I really feel the same way. Is there nobody who can help?

[This message has been edited by Big Pa (edited January 29, 2001).]

[Rinaldo]

big question here. get some good books on painting and colour will help a lot.
It is best to view value and colour as seperate things as has been said on here a lot of times. if you get the values right (meaning the light and dark) then most of the battle is won. seeing as something like skin can be any colour depending on what light is hitting it, it's hard to say what colours to choose for any given thing. learn about colour and value. what colours work together and what colours give differnt moods etc. you can use warm and cool colours to help differentiate (sp) between shaddow and higlights. warm shaddows with cool highlights and Visa versa. it can be very subtle, a slight change in the saturation can turn something warm or cool when placed next to a particular colour.
start with very few colours. make it simple.

using the HSB sliders in photoshop is the best way to look at colour. it breaks it down into logical elements. Hue Saturation and Balance(or value). have a look at paintings you like and study them with the eyedropper tool. have a look at what's happening to the HSB in the shaddows and highlights, in different parts of the body etc.
if you have a look at some paintings by old painters http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/ it's interesting to see the colour pallete's they used. given that what you see on screen is a poor substitute for viewing in the flesh. if you have a look at what is going on there with the colours, you'll see some interesting things.

hard to give much solid info 'cos I don't know much myself (I'm pretty much saying stuff that has already been said here). if you use the search and look up colour or value. maybe look up all the things a few of the "art gods" on here have said about a subject through searching by user name. a lot of good advice has been given in the past.

[S4Sb]

Thanks a lot. That really helped. I will play around with colours later today. After I finished browsing the forums.

You mentioned some books in the beginning. Got some names and titles?

------------------
Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[quaternius]

Hamburg's a big City S4Sb! You must have some good art galleries there, I don't remember - it's been 7 years since I was in Hamburg. Go see the real thing. Skin is one of the most difficult things to paint well - take lots of practice (or liberal use of the dropper tool if you just copy...heh)But you'll see greens, and blues, and pinks and yellows. Greens and blues are often used in the shadows or in half-shadow - or when you want to define a "plane" change and make something "turn" - like the cheek as it turns down the face, or the front of the nose as it becomes the side of the nose, or the front of the forehead as it "turns" toward the temples and the side of the head. It's something you have to play with yourself to come up with combinations that you like. This kind of thing can be something that really defines who you are as an artist and helps define your own style. And go to real art galleries and observe; make notes and sketches - almost nothing compares to learning by example.

Find some good books on color theory and portrait painting if skin tones are what you want to begin to become good with.

Stephan Quiller has good books on color theory; he paints with acrylic - but the theory is applicable to any material. If you use Painter, the colorwheel picker is great for experimenting with opposites. Pick a nice pink - then use an opposite (complementary) green from straight across the wheel. Try yellows and violets, try blue-greens and orange-reds. It can be a lot of fun.

Good luck.

Q

[DonSeeg]

Here is part of a handout that I give my students. It is of course geared toward traditional oil but is applicable to digital. The drawings are reproduced from and old figure painting book that I found in a bookstore. You can see them at www.seegmiller-art.com in the tutorials section, bottom of the page. They will give you ideas anyway. Good luck

Here we go with a number of truly magic ideas and �rules� to follow and use when you are trying to paint skin tones. Well, maybe they are not magic, but hopefully they will help you in your pursuit to whatever your goals might be. These are listed in no particular order.

� Skin tone mixtures are simply varying mixtures of red, yellow, and blue.
� A good and very basic palette for painting skin is earth red, yellow ochre, black, and white. If you want to expand your palette add the following colors: cadmium yellow light, cadmium red, alizarin crimson, burnt umber, and ultramarine blue.
� Use cadmium colors for pale complexioned skin. Use earthy colors for darker skins tones.
� Do not paint skin one color, color temperature, or chroma across the entire figure. If you do, your painting will look like the person is either dead, made of leather, or very sunburned.
� Painting skin is very much like painting a white object. It�s color is directly effected by the surrounding colors.
� Skins local colors vary greatly. A person�s average complexion is found on the chest area. As you travel out the extremities, the skin colors become darker and more ruddy.
� There are three zones of color across the face. Zone 1 is from the hairline to the eyebrows. This color zone tends to lean toward yellowish colors. Zone 2 is from the eyebrows to the bottom of the nose. This zone is reddish. The third zone is from the bottom of the nose to the bottom of the chin. This area will be cooler and bluish. This characteristic will be distinctly more noticeable in men.
� The whites of the eye are not �WHITE�. They are a very light skin color.
� Hair is usually comprised of the same colors as the skin but in darker values.
� If your highlights are chalky looking, you have used too much white without any consideration of the light source. As a default, use very light ochre colors for your highlights.
� Here are a few cute little pictures with color suggestions for your consideration

[quaternius]

Don - I just hadda say, that's gotta be the best "nutshell" answer I've ever seen. What the heck are ya doin' givin' all these secrets away for free? I paid for 4 years of college to learn this stuff...heh.

Art school enrollment will drop dramatically if everyone realizes they can get a better education from this forum! *smile*

Thanks Don - inspires me to put some info. on the face "zones" on my forum web-site.

Q

[rdgraffix]

Thank you Don, they're the most usefull tips I've seen in ages. Pure gold.

Do you have any other pearls of wisdom you can share?

------------------
- rowan dodds
RD Graffix

[Seeg]

Thanks for the kind words. Occasionally I get lucky when speaking and don't immediately stick my foot in my mouth. don't know what other pearls I might have but you ask and I'll answer. If I don't know an answer, I'll make one up.....

[S4Sb]

Man, that's awesome! I thank you so much. It feels so good to have a teachers in our community again. All the other teacher have way too less time to post. Thanks again.

We will be your most willing class to learn, that you have ever had.

------------------
Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[Liquid!]

SEEG -

Saw your website, absolutely incredible! Truly amazing stuff! Gald to see you here.

Actually on a related note, do you use painter on a PC or Mac? I've used it on a Mac G3 250Mhz, with terrible performance. So bad that I really can't use it anymore. I'd be interested in hearing your expereinces, if any on it.

-c

[DonSeeg]

Liquid,

When I demonstrating Painter 6 at the conferences last year I was on a Mac and had no problem. I do not know what the configuration of the machine was. At work here I have a G4 450 Mac that does not have any problem with Painter. I usually work on a PC though. Good luck

Don

[Chapel]

Hey Don, this may be an ignorant question but how do I find out what these colors are in the digital world: cadmium yellow light, cadmium red, alizarin crimson, burnt umber, and ultramarine blue

Do you know of a site or anything that has a palette with real color names?

[quaternius]

Lunatique -
Nicely done, good reference.

Chapel, S4Sb -
I could put together a basic flesh-tones digital palette based on John Howard Sanden's Pro Mix Color System...maybe this weekend. Just let me know - might find it useful myself.

John Sanden is the founder of the Portrait Institute of New York and is one of the foremost teachers of portraiture today. He has developed a useful system based on traditional oils which creates a good range of pre-mixed values. The two main advantages to his system are time-savings and value-accuracy. Meaning, he prefers to paint portraits in one sitting. I can identify.

I'd still rather mix my own - but I think his system, used digitally, might be useful.
BTW, he has an excellent book that was published in 1999 called "Portraits from Life in 29 steps" Lots of demonstrations and examples as well as solid teaching. If you want to learn to paint the figure and portraits - even digitally - I'd rate it a "must buy".

Q

[Chapel]

Q: I don't really need it. I was just looking to see if there was a reference to those color names for digital painting.

[Waldo]

*right click - save to favorites*

Thanks all for the priceless info.

[Lunatique]

There is a way to find the digital equivilent of the traditional colors.

Go here: http://www.winsornewton.com/Main/Sitesections/EncycloSctn/prodinfoset.html

Then, click on COLOUR CHARTS. Once you get the PDF file, get those colors into your paint program and just sample them and make your own traditional palette.

Hope this helps.

[Rinaldo]

quaternius- I'd be interested in haveing a look at a digital interpretation of the Pro Mix colours. I got that book a while back and have found it extreemly usefull.
so yeah, if you could be bothered that would be great

[S4Sb]

I am very interested too. Would be cool!

Thanks for your time

------------------
Formerly known as El Caseron.
ICQ:26482363

[S4Sb]

Hey, quaternius... what happened to the palette you wanted to post?

[S4Sb]

If you post it in a new thread... please drop a line here so that I'm informed... thanks

[quaternius]

S4Sb-
Glad to know it's still wanted. I haven't forgotten...still fussing with it and trying to figure out the best way to do the layout. I think I'll probably end up posting it as both a Painter palette and as a tiff file.
I'll either post to this thread or start a new one. Fairly soon... real work has to take precedence.

Thanks

Q

[quaternius]

S4Sb -
Still working on it... it's a bigger job than I thought it would be. I've got two more sections to complete, then adjust the values of the colors to match the 9 tone value scale Sanden uses. There's something like 90 colors on this chart. I'll have to post some how-to-use-this info. on my geocities website too.

At any rate, when I'm done I'll post the link on this thread so you can go get the stuff. I'm assuming you're on pc, if not the gamma will be too light and you'll have to adjust.


------------------
-Quaternius
http://www.geocities.com/cubic44

[S4Sb]

I'm on PC! Thanks man!

[quaternius]

This took forever! But it's already helped to speed up my own work. I Posted Painter *.TXT color set and a jpeg skin tones palette on my Geocities web site.
http://www.geocities.com/cubic44/skin1.html

I'll be making more of these Painter color sets for different work - like I said, they're great timesavers. I'll post 'em if they prove useful.

Have fun - and good luck!
Q

[Jerry]

I personally prefer darker colours of everything... and wouldn't go to the bright colours... like yellow, orange, pink and so. I try to stick to one color as close as possible... I mean if my pictures green I would use different shades of green and get into greyish-green and teal those pictures really sets the mood.

------------------
::K::A::R::N::
End Of The World

[S4Sb]

Oh man, shweet! Thanks!