[Chapel]

hehe.. your summary is longer than your actual statement..

[spooge demon]

I feel about 2 inches tall...

I have always said to people asking really specific technical questions that there is no �secret� if you like what I do, it is just fundamentals refined and practiced over time. So it strikes me as a little strange that I would be so worried about such technical things. So I don�t see anything I can do about the problem.

I will keep on participating here, and I guess that the occasional paint over won�t hurt much. I type very slowly, and a picture is worth...

I guess the best thing to do is what I have always counted on, that is to change and evolve, not get fat and lazy and cash in on what progress I have made. I have so far to go. These forums are really great for that. I definitely benefit from the problem solving and I have an honest audience here for my wackier pictures. So I will stay around here, no problem.

That someone might emulate my work has a lot of layers to it. Is it transient? Are they just �passing through?� I do think the idea that the people doing this are mostly artists of lesser experience, and over time they will grow well beyond. More advanced artists cannot help but put their own identity in their work. When I started Syd Mead pretty heavily influenced my work. I did move on, clearly, but I wonder what Syd would have said about that? Did all my weak imitations of his architectural work dilute and cheapen his market? Probably did. Drew Struzan was put out of business in the movie industry.

So who am I to bitch about it? I am still thinking, and my initial reaction was to clam up. But I think the enjoyment I get out of teaching, and the reinforcement of fundamentals in my own work outweighs the possible negatives.

BTW, you see in that little picture of me by my monitor, which, uh oh, contains an image that should not be there, you can see my matte white sphere and cylinder? Everyone should have a set

[Freddio]

Why do we need to get cubes and stuff?

how will this help us? because when I paint stuf generally they are not in cone shapes.

eg a sprawling landscape. you say draw millions of these things why? draw them out of your head or draw them copying a matte cube?

or can't you release these secrets

also spoogfe when you paint do you listen to music?

if so what?

[This message has been edited by Freddio (edited January 26, 2001).]

[strata]

Dunno if it's been said, but for me the tutorials have never been Paint THIS like THAT! ... it's always been a reference for how to get started, what tools to use in order to a long way down the road be able to do THAT. I mean had I not come across dhab's tutorial I wouldn't know first thing about how to even try... so what I'd like to see are more technical tutorials... not tutorials that say: Shade like that, light like this, but tutorials that say: If you're going to draw flesh then use this little scribbly brush with a twig coming out the wrong end. The technical part of it, that way the actual artistry would be left entirely up to me.

that's just me tho, and what do I actually know about anything

[Freddio]

sigh Starta..

I totally agree with spooge when he says something like learn the fundamentals of painting and then apply them to photoshop.

There are no little tools wich create pefect lighting/ You have to paint perfect lighting to get it.

as spooge says there are many different ways to go about a digital painting. If you ask me you really only need one tool and thats the paintbrush. And then you just paint with it. So when craig uses all these artistic terms and ideas, he is helping you actually learn how to paint not just use dodge burn to create some hack image.

[strata]

Freddio: I agree with you, but I'm not sure you understood me right...

I don't know how to paint traditionally... hence I have no clue as to what tools to use and so on. I also have no ambition to go out and buy alot of expensive equipment to learn how. What I want to do is learn how to TRY and do it on the computer. Wether I have a background knowledge in painting or not isn't really part of the thing I mean.

Seeing as I don't know traditional painting and thus don't really know what tools to use, what I'd like is a tutorial that says: Use this brush with those settings. Then it's up to me to figure out how to actually paint the thing...
Something to just start me off in the right direction the same way an art teacher would tell me how to blend the colors or what brushes to use.

Dunno if I'm making sense here or not. =)

[Freddio]

yep ic what you are saying

there are plenty of tutorials like that to help you out.

but by the looks of it Spooge generaly paints with the paintbrush.

I ten to soley paint with the paint brush,

but then you are right there is a technical side to it.. like spooge says he sometimes uses masks to get shiloets and stuff. things like that are handy to know but arent crucial.

once you know how to get the basics of a painting and then learn how to refine that painting your set..

[strata]

Thanks man

It's been said over and over again, but I just wanna say it again: Thanks for the fantastic input and open-ness. This goes out to all the people in this forum.

Without this place (yeah this place specifically) I wouldn't have started drawing again, and I wouldn't have gotten my interest in art back, which is something I really love.

So, thanks to all of you

[Grendel Khan]

Hey spooge, the literal translation of "Me caguen tu puta madre hijoputa" is :

---- parental advisory: explicit language ----
I shit on your whore mother you whoreson
---- end of parental advisory ----

Actually, in certain very informal conversations that's just an exclamation sentence, sort like "Holy shit!", go figure.

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Bleed the Freak

[Danny]

Spooge..
I have nothing but sympathy for your decisions. I have been slammed to hell and back for by certain people for my use of reference photographs in certain of my images. Yet no one ever seemed to mind the fact that your style and methods of painting are copied to death by almost every other participant to this forum. I'm of the opinion that a painter/illustrator's style is one of the most personal and valuable things he or she owns. The more experienced someone is, the more valuable and personal this becomes. The almost stealth-like fashion in which this has been evolving over the forum has definately led me to believe you are correct in fearing for your financial situation. The greedyness with which your style has been devoured on this forum has been (and continues to be) a source of negativity to me. With the whole overlay technique thread as it's all time low. I believe somebody's style is not transferable from one person to another.

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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[Chapel]

Maybe it is just me, but I don't see anyone on this forum that even comes close to spooge's style except for maybe pierre. But I can still see major differences between them. I for one have never tried to copy from spooge, but I have tried to learn from it. I think spooge is really more concerned with industry professionals emulating his style than the forum goers.

[ceenda]

I agree, I don't know of _anyone_ who comes close on Sijun.com

I think spooge was referring to "others on the net" as in people on the net in general and not people on Sijun

[Danny]

blah... poteyto, potahto.. sijun or the whole net, what does it matter.. besides the point.

and no.. no one has come close on this forum... thank god!


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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[Oblagon]

Was it Capitan ? That robot with an apple had great overlay (or other blender).

[ceenda]

Not sure anyone really knows where the conversation is going now, so lets leave this thread be...

[Flinthawk]

Well, before I let this thread die, I have to say thanks to Craig for being one of many sources of inspiration for me. I know and can understand exactly the reasons for being hesitant in giving out information on your methods since I've experienced the same type of feelings on a much, much smaller scale, heh. Your work, Craig, has been one of many artists whose work I've studied in an effort to teach myself about what works, what doesn't, and how to think about lighting as well as one of many fine ways to get started on a painting very quickly.

I've often thought about why I've never seen any tutorials from Liquid! and came to the conclusion long ago that it was for very similar reasons as yours. I have to say that I'm happy to see that you don't want to get too detailed in how to 'paint like Mullins' because that's how art gets stale. I hope that this forces people to look in new directions with their work and helps bring out innovations in looks and styles.

Saying that though, I do indeed hope that you're around for quite some time to help guide us on the beginning of our paths. Each path starts off as one but eventually that path forks and the student must chose which path to walk down next, knowing that his/her mentor is no longer with them in body but in mind. Sorry if that analogy got a little metaphorical but that's the way I like to think...now that I think of it, I might turn that into a painting...hmmmm.

But again, thanks for being a significant part of my journey to find my own distintive style. I only hope that someday people will look at my work and say, "Now that was done by Flinthawk", instead of, "That looks a lot like (fill in artist here)'s work." This is where I believe you stand now but as in all things there is room for improvement so maybe these events will help keep you on your toes and continue to strive to be even more than what you already are.

Best regards,
-Flinthawk

[Chapel]

flinthawk: Just to let you know Liquid! did do a tutorial once and it was published in Wizard magazine. It was really on color schemes and theory, but a tut noneoftheless. It is also on the web someplace but I'm not going to mention the url here.. do to legal issues.

[Flinthawk]

Heh, didn't know about that tutorial, Chapel, never even heard about it...just goes to show how new I am to the comic world, eh? That and I guess that shows that he hasn't gone to great lengths to continue releasing info like that. It was probably enough to get people going but not enough to give away too many personal techniques (I could be wrong, once again) which is the way it probably should be. It sounds like the theory and info given in that tut is exactly the kind of info I seek...anything more, anything too specific and I'm sure I'd find myself stuck in that mode. It seems that those that actively look to solve their own problems come out with better results in the long run, hence the reason for drawing from life instead of other art...drawing from life allows one to form their own conclusions instead of those formed by another artist.

Hmmm, rambling on here but that's because the IT guy is still upgrading my computer, hehe. Thanks for the info tid bit, Chapel.

-Flinthawk

[Freddio]

craig remember to reply to my question in my prtevious post

[Chapel]

since we are showing pictures though.. heheh.. he is probably going to kill me for this

[Bugscratch]

spooge, know that without this forum my life and probably the life of many others here would have likely taken a totally different direction. If not for the fateful day when a link on RDGraffix' site pointed me here I would probably still draw like a ten-year-old.

I see your point, and I noticed that very often people here focus way too much on your work, measuring everything at the quality of your work, despite the many other great artists around here (that is not to say that your work is any worse than theirs. I still believe your work is the best, but I also believe that some come close and get overlooked because of the general focus towards your work). Almost every advice given theoretically leads to an image painted in spooge style. I think a general change in the point of view would be necessary, reflecting other styles and techniques besides yours.
I also see your point that sharing all your techniques might have an impact on your possible earnings, and thus I would understand if you decreased the amount of your posts sharing your personal technique.

However, know that this forum lives off of people like you. This forum is more or less a collection of hundreds of newbies (including me), a limited number of advanced artists, and about 10 or 20 absolute professionals. Without these professionals, this forum could not live.
So rest assured that whatever contribution you will make to this forum, it will be much appreciated.
I have the firm belief that any artist who takes his art seriously will eventually develop his own style, not being satisfied with merely copying someone else's.

I hope you are not offended by any parts of this post, especially the part about changing the point of view a bit away from your art, and I hope to see you around here for a long long time.

-bugscratch

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mailto: [email protected]

"Every intelectual has two countries of origin: His own and Syria."
---Syrian Pavillon @ EXPO 2000 ---

[Liquid!]

Gee Chapel... Thanks for that one. I'm putting a contract out on you as I type... I'm sure I would have posted it myself if I felt the forum needed a good laugh. Ever notice that Wizard doesn't necessarily publish the most flattering pics... well, then again not really sure the camera to fix this has been invented yet.


FLINT - I don't believe in doing tutorials on our style. While there are the few (Rinaldo comes to mind) that would use it to grow their own style out of it, most would just copy it wholesale. Unfortunately, that is the sad truth.

I believe in teaching what I consider the essentials/basics of art (to whatever meager end I have come to understand them), and letting each individual artist extrapolate their own interpretations and vision from it.

Just wanted to elaborate on that a bit, since I still think teaching is ok. Just not teaching "style". That is something you should find yourself.

-c

[This message has been edited by Liquid! (edited January 26, 2001).]

[Chapel]

Well put Chris. I think spooge should think about that. You don't have to spoon feed us.. just point us in the right direction.

Craig: Sorry that this thread has gone so far off, but the thing that is abundant in all of our posts is that we all have a great deal of respect for your artistic knowledge as well as your talent. I'm sure we will back you up on whatever you decide. Just chime in every once and awhile to give us a different perspective on our art.

*prepares to go on the run from the hitmen*

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited January 26, 2001).]

[Flinthawk]

Liquid!: my thoughts exactly

[Shaded]

Have a beer and crack a joke guys. Crawling all over your idols is not healthy.

[for the idols]

Pada da lar la bamba.

[Muzman]

As per the above, Muz merely salutes, spits on the economy and goes back to browsing the forum.

[Capt.FlushGarden]

Spooge!! Do youi have a ferrari?????

ah dammit guess I'm to late...

[A.Buttle]

What the damn hell is goin' on up in here?! Break it up! Let everyone be ugly by themselves....

Hell... you guys think you're ugly?! You've got it easy... Look at me....



Christ... people throw rocks when I walk down the street....

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[This message has been edited by your mutha (edited April 15, 197-deuce).]

Joe Dillingham
[email protected]
Three Times A Day

[Flinthawk]

Fear the MIDGET MULLET!! AHHHHHH, run for the hills, run for the hills!!!

[Anthony]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Capt.FlushGarden:
Spooge!! Do youi have a ferrari?????

ah dammit guess I'm to late...

---

Hey, I have a Ferrari...didn't finish building it though. ^_^

Maybe an image of that size will finally kill this thread!


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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem