[labrat]

[edit]
I am adding this here before this subject is out of control. I am leaving my orginal message down there so you can read it. But IGNORE IT!

Just look at the picture and tell me if you have ANY ideas, I DO NOT want to talk about the subject or start any flame war. So please, just...

...CONCENTRATE TO THE PICTURE. Okay?

I know, I have a big mouth.

[edit]


Why I can't be famous, respected and automatically worshipped like dhadib, spooge, joachim, loki, and losers like that?

I guess, I just suck so much.

I generally don't comment/critique people's work often, but I especially avoid saying ANYTHING when Joachim, or Dhadib(especially dhadib) post anything, or any else "elite"... Since there's a lot of people here who automatically go on their knees lick their feet and fetch the mail while repeating "great! I luv yer talent! Can I lick the skidmarks off yer arse?! Plz!" to those artist, I am not needed in those threads. It is kinda sad that only those "famous" people get the comments... I have nothing against those "famous" artists, I like their works, mostly, but there's other people too...

I find it kinda sad that fame is like money, "fame grows fame". If I ever REALLY wanted any comment of my works (now, I just take every comment as a gift from god), or anything, I would need to BEG for them. AND I am pretty good. Sheesh!

I don't say I am best or anything special, I am just saying that I am not a beginner anymore, and I STILL need to beg for comments. I don't even want to THINK how much trouble the beginners have to go throught when they want some critique on their works. I would critique people's pictures, but I suck at critiquing... but I throw my two pennies at people(usually beginners) when I can.

I can't remember when was the last time I saw any elite to comment beginners work... well... that's not a subject, since I can understand that, you have only so many hours in a day...

Anyway, to keep it simple, I am logging off now. Here's my picture:



It is a greeting(for new year & stuff) card for my friend, I will add the text later. When I've completely finished with it...

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"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks


[This message has been edited by labrat (edited December 25, 2000).]

[nori]

that's cool. How'd you do those .. the... (tilts his head) the uhh texture? ^_^

[labrat]

Well, in photoshop with airbrush tool. The whole picture is done with airbrush(with little help from paintbrush) tool, using 1, 2 & 3 pixels big brush... fun... takes a while... took me about 5 hours to this one, and this on was QUICK...

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---
"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks

[Ampa]

Hey Labrat - I hear where you're coming from with your whining

The only way to break the cycle is to start doing things diferently, so I am making a concerted effort to crit posts of all types, at all levels. I don't claim to be an expert (or even correct in everything I say, all of the time) but will gladly give 3rd party advice to anyone who I feel I can help.

So on to your little offering...

1st off - I like it. Unusual style with the stylinzed bubble effect. I'm not sure exactly what it is - which is not such a bad thing. To me it looks like the girl is diving (through a layer of crude oil) into a bubling swirling liquid.

Anatomy is OK, but could be tweaked in a couple of areas. Her right nipple seems too far round to me (Hmm let me check... Yeah it is definitely off )
And her back seems to start too soon. Look how deep her chest is!

Are you going to define any more of the face? If not then I'd suggest sweeping the hair across (a few strands at least) to add to the mystery.

Interested to see how this develops. Hope my comments are of some use.

Hugz Ampa.

[labrat]

Argh! You're right... gee, I should pay attention when I am doing quickie stuff... well, I knew it would SOME day prove useful to post stuff here . Thnx... I'll fix it after I've slept... and gotten more(if I am lucky) ideas/critiques/complaints...

Added later:
------
Ehhe... I just noticed why the back/chest looks so weird and deep... It seems like that I've forgotten to draw one of the lines completely, it just goes halfway to the back, the lines that look like her back, are actually her hair...

Ooopps... you can spit on me freely...

---
"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks


[This message has been edited by labrat (edited December 25, 2000).]

[samdragon]

hmmm, you registered in december 2000, and you can't remember when the "elite" of artists commented on beginners artwork?
Relax, most of the "elite" are working people and can not spend day and night in this forum to comment on peoples work.

You don't have to be elite to get comments.
You'll just start a flame war with comments like that and that will generate comments that will do no-one any good.

It seems that some (not all) people here are more concerned with how much they can impress a total stranger, instead of sharing ideas or offering a worthwhile critique.

So, don't feel bad if your work has not received comments in the past. It's impossible to critique everyone's art, there are just too many people here right now.

I used to post here everyday, but it's just not worth it anymore. Most people are just wanting to pump up their ego's or start flames. So, I try to single out the people who are truly asking for help and not the ego freaks.
If you truly want to learn or improve your skill, stick around, things will change and once things cool off with work and deadlines, the big guns will show up again to offer help and share ideas.
Don't base your talents as an artist on this place. If you're thinking your abilities are based on what people say, then you have a long road infront of you.

Ok, enough soap box stuff...

As for your image, and hopefully not your ego...
I like what you have done with the very fluid and energetic element you have. Nice combination of positive and negative space around your main element.
Some parts of it have depth, and others have movement, very nice combination.
the figure stands out nicely, but to me, it's kinda strange to have this figure so motionless.
maybe if you where to continue the form of the figure into the black space some more, maybe continue the legs with that same type of color and effect into the black space. This will help keep it from being more of a "banner" element, also help it break out of the boundaries.

You may want to look again at the hair, there is something there that bugs me about it, can't quite place it. You could bring some strands of hair across the face to form the other features of the face, this will also add more motion to the head as the hair flows across the face.
I hope you leave the white at the lower left. I think it helps tie in positive and negative space.
I don't think anatomy is an important element here, the abstract shapes you have allow for abstract anatomy, so the figure's anatomy fits this type of image.
As for the text, what are you going to do? Remember..type and image..they need to work together and not against each other.
Show us the final image when it's done..
Good luck

[WICKED]

I really like that air brush effect. You thinking of making a tutorial? .
WICKED

[labrat]

Ahh, I guess I should've avoided using the word "elite"... ehh... People always find negative side to that word. And what the registering me at dec. has anything to do how long I've been around?

I registered only lately, since I didn't feel confident, or useful enough to contribute before. And besides, I rarely find time to post anywhere anything, so I try to avoid joinin in too many things, since I will usually forget them after a while..

I realize I was kinda putting my head to acid, when writing that comment. But I thought that maybe I wrote it nicely enough not to start a flame war. Hopefully.

The picture is pretty much done now. I like the white/color/black combination of the picture, so fear not, the white shall remain. I will only make small adjustments to the picture anymore. As for her movement... I never got it really right, so I left it like that... Blah... I will try again later .

As for hair, you got it right. Something's really not right with it. SOMEONE please tell what it is so that I can fix it. I tried fixing it many times, but it never comes out right, I "could" make it hang as the gravity should, but ... well.. it didn't look too good when I tried... hmmh... well, we'll see...


---
"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks


[This message has been edited by labrat (edited December 25, 2000).]

[Isric]

There is a huge diference between ass licking and encouragement. Encouragement is what most people here speialize in and it's kind of annoying when people get offended by other people's success.
People like Joachim, Spooge, Micke, Etc.. have worked damn hard to get where they are, and it only seems to make sense to compliment them on images well done. Call it egotism, but I really like the idea of proffessionals complimenting me on my stuff.
I'm a 17 year old High School graduate with absolutely no proffessional instruction, so for me this is as good as it gets.
When I first started out here I got NO comments. None. Not one. What did I do? I made comment worthy images, images that were interesting to look at, inspired something in the imagination, and stuck in peoples minds.
This has been my shpeel. People are probably gonna get mad at me, cause no one will understand what I mean. damn the internet for being so inpersonal, but there you have it.

[labrat]

Well, I don't get OFFENDED of their success, why I should? They worked for it, so they've pretty much "earned" it.

I am just saying that maybe the comments could be spread around more evenly?

And you don't NEED to comment my pictures, I don't expect anyone to comment or like my art. I am just saying that all those beginners here, there, and everywhere, should get more comments, instead of the "famous" people who already get enough comments and KNOW they've good...

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"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks

[Ben Barker]

Usually when Spooge, Dhabih, or whomever posts a piece of work it totally blows everyone away. The reason they get so many compliments is because their work is always impressive. There's a difference between showing respect and kissing ass. Most people show respect to those artists, because they are the cream of the crop. Their work is top notch and deserves more recognition than other pieces of work.

Some newbie pieces are crap. Some are so bad they aren't even worth commenting on. Why should someone waste their time when the artist didn't even spend 20 minutes on it?

In between the two extremes, where 95% of posts fall (including your's), it's a crap shoot. The number of replies can be pretty random.

I read a lot of posts and never reply because other people have already covered it. There's no point in racking up critiques if everyone is saying the same thing: "Oh, I agree with everything Frost said, BTW". Also, if I just have tiny little problems with it I won't post them lest the artist should think them a big deal.


[This message has been edited by Ben Barker (edited December 25, 2000).]

[labrat]

I wonder why I always put my head in acid jar? (sigh)

I should've kept my mouth shut.

Their work is impressive, I admit. But why to comment if you can't help? Like you said... And besides, those works that fall "in-between" state, those artists usually could use one or two more comments, to cheer them up a little first, then point out the mistakes to bring them back to earth. And beginners need some encouragement or they're never gonna be any new "Joachims" and "dhadibs"...

please... people... the one's who are going to read this from now on, couldn't you please stop talking about that! I know I have a big mouth, but if you are going to comment from now on, could you just comment the picture or leave the whole topic be?

please?

just concentrate to the picture, willya?

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---
"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks

[Light]

The truth is the better artist and artworks get more comments becuz they are nice. It's easier to say "good work" then to really critique an image.

Also, since the short time I've been here, a lot of same questions get asked over and over.

So there you go. =)

[Light]

Heh.. you might want a crit. Well, again its hard to give a well-thought out crit. I like the shading. Its pretty cool. The face is nice but seems a little empty.

[micke]

Hehe....Too late.
It's allready a too big forum.
It was much like you described before.
*Runs happy flash back scenes with vaseline on the corners of the lens*
Everybody replied to everybody and tried to
help, but now since the forum has grown so much lately i think people don't have time
to reply to everything posted. I wan't to
reply to spoogedemons pics. I want to encourage him the same way i want to encourage Rinaldo or Isric, since i think that all of them and so many others are great and i want to tell them what i like about it and also what i don't like about it. If it just is about taste i just shut-up Since i think that it is not a valid point anyway. If i simply just like it i say so.
comments about the pic:
It's a pretty nice one I like the dots.
Since the picture is pretty psychedelic there is no big point in commenting on the anatomy, but i'll do it anyway.
I think it looks good
The only thing i can see is that the head is is way too big. Where is the face?
What kind of look did you want for this? Where is the text suppose to be?

-Mikael
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Mikael's artwork

[This message has been edited by micke (edited December 25, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by micke (edited December 25, 2000).]

[labrat]

Well, the head's a bit big... but you could think as her a child... pretty well developted child, tho

ehhe...

Anyway, the text's gonna be in the black area and it's gonna be alll "blabhblahblahblahblahblah thanks for blahblabhl friendship blabhlabhlah mushy blah blah" kind of text... so YOU(the forum) are not going to see the text... I have tried already and it works pretty well with the text... doesn't bother it too much...

anyhow... the effect I wanted? Well, psychedelic bubble mania? I didn't try to create anything too impressive, just something "pretty" that I could finish in a day(it seems that I couldn't) and send to my friend...

This picture is closest thing to "happy" I've ever done...


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"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks

[[Shizo]]

Because you can't be 1337 without skillz!

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nothing really matters to me

[Isric]

Oh yeah! I forgot, i really like your picture. Very origional looking, and very classy.
(thats encouragent meant just for you)

[Matt Elder]

G'day labrat. Well I haven't posted much in the last month as just too busy with other things. I'm on of those people who have been around and seem the forum change alot. You've mentioned a number of issues.

It is a problem that people are posting and not getting good crits but there is too much on the forum. Some people post half a dozen sketches a day with no intention of ever doing anything 'digital' with them. Then there are some who post stuff from their sketch book from a year ago for the sake of it with no intention of taking crits on board and changing it.

I know when I log onto the forum, I look down the list of names that I know - spoonge, dhab, liquid!, Jenn, jasonN etc cause I know I'm going to see something cool or people who have been around and value a crit. Then I have a look at what else is around. In the case of this thread, it is a bit of a 'slow day', I don't know who you are and for all I know, you'll be gone tommorrow.

'Newbies' might be fighting an uphill battle for attention but at the same time, what have they really contributed? Have they gone and critiqued others work, given useful feedback etc? Have they made an attempt to go to someones website, have a look around, send the person a direct email, sign a guestbook etc? A little bit of extra effort can go along way.

Sure people are 'worshipping' the 'Masters' but that is because alot of Newbies come alot, post 3 million things without putting in any thought. It is clogging up the forum so seeing the 'top' notch stuff is a welcomed change. I'm not saying that newbies stuff isn't worth the time of day, quite the opposite. I like trying to help the newbies out with comments and crits but when you put effort into a crit and there isn't even acknowledgement of it, why bother?!

Anyhow, enough of the soap box. I like your image and it is cool and different. However it is difficult to comment if you are going to put text on it and we don't see it. The style of the text might be something very contrasting shifting the focus of the image. The 'message' may not be complimentary to the image or hide it too much.

Having said that I'll make a few comments. The head on the character seems a little too big. The back also seems to 'bludge' out too much before it reaches the shoulder. The shape of the breasts/the position of the nipple looks a little off.

The colours look really nice and the bubbly effect is kinda cool. One thing that did strike me about the image was that it didn't seem to blend properly and/or the 'break's are too well defined. In the upper part of the image the black section is very sharp with the other colours sort of 'behind' it. On the lower section you have a black line to define the boundary and I'm not sold on this idea. Anyhow an interesting image.

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See ya on da flip side
Matt
http://www.mattelder.com

[Starseed]

I like it, it has a very consistent style.

As for what it is . . .

Has anyone seen the cover of Metallica's album: "Load" ?

- mt

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everything is relative

[Anthony]

The pic looks OK - the colors are pleasant, the girl is allright, although nothing special. It's a nice sort of 70s-ish design image, and I think it's interesting. Not my cup of tea, but interesting.
---commentary---
If half the people who post just to bemoan the state of the forum would just be quiet and work away the forum wouldn't be so messy. I've been here awhile now, and I've posted quite a number of critiques. But I only post an image about once a month. Why? Because I don't just post any crap that I spew-I post stuff that I think indicates something worthy of critique, because that's the only way I can learn. I wouldn't have posted here when I was in High School, because I could learn just as much from my teachers there and from practise. The kind of info you'll get from Spooge or Fred when you're a beginner is not something that you couldn't get from a lesser artist(like me). Whenever people are better than others, a natural hierarchy will tend to create itself, and so people will help others where the others can most use the help. The gawking, etc, is just an impulse "kudos" thing, and isn't like a critique. Obviously no one's gonna post "AWESOME! GREAT! SUPER!" because they're not that impressed by it. The most common comment on my art is "neat!" Now, that's all fine, but that's what people have been saying for the last 8 years! I'm not complaining, I just keep working. So should you. Take what people better than you give you, and smile at them, and keep working to be better than they are. I want to be better than Spooge. Will I ever? I doubt it, but I'm not gonna complain when people don't give me the same comments they give him.

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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem

[Solitaire]

Listening to Matt Elders words and those similar to that tenor makes me sad as the consequence for me is; that I am not welcomed and only judged by a "grade" delivered through my entry date and have to leave this place.

Well I am new to digital art and don't know really where to start, so I searched the net for an openminded place where to get answers and help to get the first hurdles.
A coincidal post on 3Dpalette; one of the few places I've known of in the web to get the info I need lead me to this place I found matching my needs at the first glance.

I introduced myself carefully with a colourjob on one of Vortx great characters (the babe with the blade) as I realy loved that character. I spent a whole day on it - I mention this because I realy wanted to have her looking good to justify an attempt on such an great artist's work and because I don't know much about the use of PS right now!
misstep one??????

In the same time I tried to help those who had problems in areas I have some experiences in - needless to say that I am not a native english speaker so I can't comment that elaborate like other folks do with all the technical jargon and stuff - sorry.This handicap has limited my comments and I often tried to illustrate my suggestions by drawings I did (in the past) dealing with similar problems!

misstep two????

My origins are pencil and ink like the most here started off.To get some comments on my works I posted some of my older pics (some about half a year ago) just to evaluate my skill by critics of people with some knowledge of our subject here.Here and there some other funny occasions occured where people asked for those kind of art and I contributed some more stuff.

misstep 3???????

Actually I have my studies and my job which prevented me getting more than two other guest colorings, one finished art and one lineart which I'm going to finish in PS (hopefully soon)that caught at least some attention....
well 3 guestcolorings to 1 1/2 own digital works

misstep 4????????

I didn't showed presence in the random musings

misstep 5??????

I learned a lot the last two months;but IMO I also helped some people here - I made some nice aquaintances and everything seemed fine.

But the last weeks I'm always confronted with fact that although I can draw - I am just a newbie and not an artist.....

well; do you realy think this is what Dhabih wanted this place to be?

[samdragon]

the reason I was making reference to labrat's register date, is because he said he couldn't remember when the "elite" posted comments about peoples work. You're gonna have to stick around longer than one month to see alot of comments from the big guys.

[gear]

I have not posted in a few months for some of the same reasons, but this thread had a something about it that felt? well uncomf--fortable. The forum has become an oddity of sorts.
It reminds me of that old movie "lord of the flies"
some people just like to eat the fat kid aka new kid on the block.
well now being that I'm one of thos fat kids, I will go back to my obscurity in fear of all of you. but don't fret I still have my art.

[Light]

bah. I think a lot of people are whining. The best person who can critique your work is yourself.

As an artist I look for what I like and what I dont like and try to figure out why. It's not purely a technical thing.

The only way to learn here is NOT just to get crits but also to give well thought ones. And since there is no sort of quota system (thank goodness) then you have to take what you get.

Also, you can learn from other peoples crits as well. I've posted several painting tips to several threads. If some of the new people would read the board then they might get a lot of those tips. I've got some myself. =)

[yoshi]

The reality is that masters of this forum are not masters in the bigger scene (excluding C.Mullins maybe), there is better stuff out there that you can learn from. You can't find it, you lose. As to the value of comments, some ppl know what they talk about, most don't. I rarely comment because i've got nothing of worth to say.

[[Shizo]]

Shutup! You have no skillz!!!!
Only masters widh maj0r skillz can be 1337. And FOOs like YU - be trippin'

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nothing really matters to me

[anticz]

Can't speak for fred or francis or wacomonkey but I will say that I've been to busy with work to even update my website. Wish I could reply to more posts with positive feedback but I just don't have the time (by no means do I consider myself elite). I'm definatly guilty of posting one liner jokes on quite a few threads but hopefully noone is offened by any of my comments. Just trying to lighten the mood (If you knew me you'ld understand ). Like your piece btw. Clean lines and a simple, unified color scheme.

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Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
anticz.com
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[Freddio]

Im elite, why dont I get any repies..??
j/k

Very nice pic LabRat, It looks like some sort of Australian Aborigianl art

looks really cool..

I see where you are comming from with your ideas about the pros on this board... Maby if you yourself commented on other peoples art more often they would comment on yours...

I always try to comment on someones work who commented on my own in a previous thread.

thanks...

Keep the cool pics comming Labrat..

[labrat]

samdragon,
Ever thought that I can read the threads even if I am not registered? I guess not.

Anyway, big "thank you" to everyone who commented on my picture, everyone else... big bad "blah" to you.

and to [shizo] ... oh yes, now I get it. Thnx. But I thought I said already that I suck?

Micke, Freddio, samdragon, ampa and everyone else who commented on my picture and wasn't too serious. Thank you.

As for that one who said it looked like 70's... well gee... didn't mean it to look like that. Eeew.

As for the anatomy, it's all fixed. Same goes for her head size, it's right now. And I added little motion to the picture, not very much, thought. So it is kinda still picture...


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"Pain is just a confirmation that you're alive, so quit whining."
Labworks