[Fred Flick Stone]

Ok. I got on the forum today to really see what has been going on, and the first thread I read was Chapel's. This is really disturbing. Whatonce was a happy escape, with a cool family of artisans has become a mob scene, with very little respect for one another, and the abscense of some pretty important influences to the whole thing.

I myself want to make two apologies.
One of the apologies is for not attending more often and giving help when I can. When I got started on the forum quite a while back, there was a smaller number of us and it was really easy to get around to most all the posts. Then also, I had far less work to juggle, and not a relationship. Well, good ole father time fucked that one up and gave me more to deal with than I can handle. At that point, I fell off the forum wagon. I am going to try and get more involved again here after the holidays and try again to get involved with crits.

I also want to apologize for any comments that I made that could have been mistaken for jabs. I talk a certain way, as we all do, and I think I take for granted that you guys should know me like my coworkers do. Therefore, I chatted on with critiques in much the same way I do around here and at the school, forgetting about personalities, and such. So, if ever I stepped on anyones toes, or I redrew something for someone that they didn't feel was a good call, I sincerely apologize. Fact is, too many crits will scare away people. Take Francis a coworker of mine, every time I look at his work, I love it so much. But there are some flaws here or there that I immediately pick up on, and give them to him as comments. Well, needless to say, Francis doesn't show me stuff he is working on any more unless I see it on his desk. From too many crits, it has possibly forced him to default to not wanting to show the work, out of frustration of always hearing too much about what can be fixed. Also, I have done alot of different things before working here at Presto, and I am always offering suggestions to him about what he is doing, and how to better it. I think he has been put off by this, and away he has gone. I use this example only to reflect upon what it is I do, and do alot on the forum. I noticed alot after giving some critiques to some of the image makers here on the forum, they never went back to their own thread and countered what was said to any varying degree. I am in no way trying to be a negative influence, I am only trying to help. But, not knowing that you guys don't know me, or not really thinking about it, I posted what I posted, in hopes of helping and no more than that. Instead, what occurred was worse, possibly frustrating the other party. I digress and apologize. I did not intend to sound that way.

I possibly also sounded rather militant by stating things so deliberately as if, this is the only way to do it. I never use myself as an example when I talk, and if I do, I refer to me as you. It is some funky thing I have about myself, I don't like to talk about me...unless it is in a comparable situation, or as an example of for an analogy. And in that case it is usually refering to what I did wrong, and how that situation could be betterd by the next person.

Anyway, long story short, I am sincerely sorry for any harshness that meant to be helpful. I hope though that this forum can get better, with the additive of Dhabs triple division thread to possibly take things in a better direction.

This forum, and art forums in general are rare, and when they do occur, they usually aren't all that great. This one HAD a wonderful vibe to it, and it seems to have drifted astray. I hope it can be found again. This place is way to important to the 21st century artists, seeing as it is leaning harder into the digital age. Kids will be growing up learning solely on the computer, and they need places for influence. As an old member I am going to try and do my best to only say beneficial things , or helpful things, possibly post from time to time new art, but not all that often. I think it is more imprtant to help than to flatter oneself. Sometimes that can be lost in hindsight. I am trying harder these days to stay on track.

I also want to say that to immi I have been sending him art for tutorials. They should be done soon. I have been slacking because I need to rewrite a lot of what I already went through, and not make it sound so hard and deliberate. It needs to be cushioned more so I don't step on anyones toes. So, to that extent, I have slowed down on getting them out.

CHapel, how did you fair with Wildstorm comics? I know Ed liked your work, but I never heard back about what is going on...I hope things went well, and at least made some important connections if nothing more.

The images posted are all from some little cary around sketchpad of mine. It is a watercolor pad, and I have been trying my hand at it. The native guy is done in goauche.
The snowmobile is incomplete and is also done in goauche, as is the old man. The snowmobile is just a wash layin, I still have another pass at it to finish it off, but they are to be opaque, not transparent.

The girl is just a simple pen sketch, no fluf to it. I am going to paint it eventually...

I posted these as a request from Chapel, and an important one too. I hope more of you forum "newbies" can get some real use of this forum, and not make it into such a bad place to go. That would be ashame to see all the work Dhabih and everyone else had initially put into this, and still do, and see the whole thing implode upon itself.

Ok, another novel, I go now, Happy Holidays, and everyone here, make some cool shit and post it over the holidays so all us out of towners have something awesome to return to...


Bye

Ron Lemen

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited December 22, 2000).]

[burn0ut]

drool~! Nice work fred!

Nice to hear from ya again, and id like... _love_ to see some work from you even if you dont post it on the forum, its cool to just upload it to your webpage n keep it updated ya know?

Just wanna ask how that comic is coming along? are you still working on it, are you done with it?

Marry Christmas

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-stephen

Trial n Error.

[Frost]

Ron: That was a very nice post, and a great pleasure to see you back. Your art is so darn flawless.

As for the apologies go, I don't see why you'd have to do so, you've always been an immense help to us all, and have shown your patience and willingness to help and teach more times than I could possibly do here. You have been missed, but it's understood that you're beyond busy... any man of great talent should be. =)

Happy holidays to you Ron and to yours. Thanks for your post. =)

[TheMilkMan]

Nice work fred it all looks really good!!!!!

wow what happned to my first post it disappeared???

[Waldo]

What a timely post, Fred...

You are one of the main reasons that WE are all here and your discouragement and disappointment with things going on reflects poorly (and accurately) on the current state of affairs with this forum. I am speaking for myself (and I'll bet for a few others) that I am one of those artists that always needs someone to stand over him with a hammer to whack him on the head when it's time for me to stop or when I've missed something.

You provide that hammer.

As far as apologies, I can understand your concern because I know you are a caring person, but being unable to participate in this forum as much as you wish is not your fault. You have a life and you are also doing what you do because you enjoy it. Babysitting is not one of your jobs, yet You can apologize to my wife for sending me out in public with knots on my head and a smile on my face

As far as Chapel's "INSANITY" post, I'm all for it and your Valentino/gouache post some time ago has always intrigued me so I thought I would take a stab at it. Everything that I've tossed into this forum so far, has been scanned sketches, weak animations or photo manipulations, but nothing completely done digitally (you all know what I mean ).

This is what I've been up to this afternoon and when completed I'll toss it into Chapel's thread. I originally started doing this in Painter, but for a first timer, I think it would probably take me another year to figure out the interface.
Now it's in PhotoShop...with a mouse no less...sorry for the windy reply...

Fred's original and cropped pic



my attempt



Grab your hammer, Fred. I'll stop if you wish or run with knots...

Happy Holidays everyone!

-Kris


[This message has been edited by Waldo (edited December 22, 2000).]

[Chapel]

Thanks for chiming in Ron. (You really should use a table of content for these novels though.)

Ed emailed me for my resume and I sent it to them, but haven't heard back from them. That was like 3 or 4 weeks ago.. before I colored and sequentials. So, I don't know... my resume can look pretty intimidating if they are not familiar with the IS industry. That could be a factor.

By the way, I like the chick.. pretty cool style.

[Anthony]

Hey Ron, no worries - I for one would happily throw hundreds of drawings at you to critique and fix. But then I'm shameless. If anyone takes your critiques as anything other than help, it's their loss! Maybe they just need more confidence. I never understood people being defensive about their work or themselves. What is, is. Period. I've run into the same problem with people, where they try to defend their work and say there's nothing wrong, when of course there is. But they have to overcome this before they can learn. Never apologize when your motives are noble!!

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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem

[edible snowman]

yes fred you never do anything with this forum, now i only get one 50,000 word essay every month or so. I appreciate it lots when people actually write useful stuff instead of saying "that is KOOL LOL" or something. even if the can be taken negatively. Plus if anyone read my other recent reply to a post i have converted to a pagan religion in which i worship members of this board as my gods (not really, but watch out for cult members)

[Sergenth]

This is a good peice, Ron.

I would call your apologies something else though... more along the lines of "Ron Lemen's Behavioral Analysis - How I Tick." I think it's good, because most of us ask ourselves privately how we should act on the messageboard.

Thanks for sharing your inside thought mechanisms and considerations with us. I know for sure they will help me decide (better) how people will feel when I post a response or critique in their topic.

Oh yeah, and thanks for posting soem pics too... hehe

[Jaymo]

That's the spirit, thanks, ron. I have hope now.

[Rinaldo]

What�s this, Ron posted?? way too cool. Great to hear from you man.

Yeah, I don't feel you need apologise, I love the way you just talk like you do. No need to shut out your personality. I can see the dilemma, but I like you just the way you are

Love yer work as always, always makes me want to draw. keep it up, and have a happy holiday

[AliasMoze]

Hey, he's back from the dead. Glad to hear from you again, Fred.

The last two images are fantastic, especially the black dude. Anyways, welcome back.

[Superbug]

Hey, very nice sketches fred. I especially like the African guy with all his gear. Your pictures are aweome. I don't like the girl that much just because it lacks the incredible detail of your other pics, but im sure you could do that up no prob.

As for the apoligies. I agree about some things you have said about this forum. When I first got on, the atmosphere seemed a lot more pleasant. But now, there are like newbies everyday, and so many posts it's just crazy.

Plus i think there are too many personal attacks on people like that one dude who called faustgfx ugly or something. What's with that? Any who, just my two cents.

Sorry for rambling in your thread.
thanks

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____________________
boop boop mewp

[Francis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fred Flick Stone:
... it has possibly forced him to default to not wanting to show the work, out of frustration of always hearing too much about what can be fixed. Also, I have done alot of different things before working here at Presto, and I am always offering suggestions to him about what he is doing, and how to better it. I think he has been put off by this, and away he has gone.

---

Nooo! My motivation is simply that I just don't want to add more to your list - my coming to you and saying "does Spider-man's left foot look right?" just doesn't seem like a good use of your time, when you are putting in 12 hour days, teaching seven classes, feeding the homeless and taking motorcycle stunt classes while working towards your black belt in muay thai, all at a time when you are in a fresh new relationship. I know that for me personally any time I am obligated to spend away from the drawing table or the computer (or Linda) is time I kinda resent being wasted, so I generally assume that other people feel the same way. I'd be nuts to not take advantage of your crits just because my feelings might get hurt.

On that subject, I may not necessarily react with a cheery "Thank you Sir may I have another?", but that sure as hell doesn't mean I don't want your feedback. Same goes with Phil's (Wacomonkey) feedback - he knows so much and has so much background to draw from that it would be foolish not to heed his feedback. If I appear to be disappointed when getting crits, it's because I am a little disappointed in my own efforts, and not that I didn't want to hear the feedback. If anything, it just indicates my stunning lack of social graces.

So, now that I know you don't mind me wasting your time, I will be a constant drain on your resources in the future. Just wanted to clear that up, and I'm glad to see your stuff here again.

See you after the break bro.

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[Justin Kramer]

great works, Ron. Thanks for sharing. I feel like breaking out my watercolors now.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, too. We all need to make character adjustments now and then. The hard part is being attentive to the lessons life offers us, and admitting the need for change, which you've already done.

For future reference, you have full permission to rip me a new orifice whenever I post



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portfolio

[Freddio]

any relation to the real Kramer?

[mar]

I'm flirting with disaster here. . .

After being inspired by Chapel, I've come to the decision that I need to get off my ass and post. . .

Well, as you can tell, I'm a newbie to the forum, so I don't know if I'll get this right.

If I can manage to get my image up, I'll start my own thread

If not, I apologize for making you read this.



Mar

[mar]

YES!!

Well folks, you saw it here FIRST!

My first pixels to ever hit the net. . .

Let me make my own thread now instead of stepping on Fred's.

Mar

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We were born to create. It is our lot in life.

[CapnPyro]

I miss the days of it being a small group, Mr Flickstone here along with Spooge posting all the time, and all the other old timers Did someone put a billboard in times square about this place or what?

I dont think Rons ever given me a crit, but when you get critiqued by someone with such immense skill/experience they tend to shut up and take their medecine, if you argue or defend your work you look childish, most people learn what they can and hit the drawing boards. My point; If you do return critique has honest as you can as it only helps Even if it doesnt help the person who drew it, the people reading it at the very least benefit from it

btw if i remember right you taught at Associates in Art, right? I'm taking the Graphic Storytelling/Comic Book Layout course there next semester (with Jim Silke I think it is) any chance you'd return to teaching there in the future, and what did you teach there when you were there?

Oh, and post more pictures of the lovely lady in the fuzzy pink cowboy hat, yes?



-Capn

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro

[Cos]

Great work Fred! I espescially like the native..

I don't think you need to apologise for being harsh with your crit.. If it's your honest opinion and you are only saying it to try and help then its for a good cause.

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-Cos Koniotis-

http://www.3dpalette.org/~coskoniotis

[jasonN]

Hi Fred,
The way in which you compose yourself and the manner you conduct yourself in this forum is fine and a good example to everyone. Don't apologise for how you act, the extra thought and maturity demonstrated in your posts raises the quality of this entire forum.

Welcome back, and I really like all your pics. Especailly the tribal man. The skin tones and strong, bold definition is amazing

-Jason

[Dives]

this is my oppinion: Never appologize if you express your oppinion it is nothing to be ashamed of. Also i think people should be more truthful instead of trying to make the artist happy.

[Fred Flick Stone]

Hey hey...um, I am not supposed to be here right now. I am actually half way to Sacramento right now, at least that is what my parents think...hehehehe...

We lagged, I came into work to pick up a few things before we depart, and snuck a peek at the forum. Spooge posted a beaut' again. Nice.

Thanks for all the replies, and I really hope that we can get a good thing going again in the new year. Hopefully someone in my family has a computer now. My grandmas 56k just don't cut it... so I can keep up forum tabs up in Sac...

Frost-I wish I could paint 128 pages in a month and a half. That would be a miracle. DC has given me a contract, and in it it states that I have 3 days per page. Perfect since I have a new surprise task ahead of me with some other work related stuff. The schedule is going to get thick for a bit, but I think that if I can stick with three days per page, I should have no problem. Pencil one day and paint for two. That seems about fair with the pacing. It's still going to be thick, but I am ready for it. I just hope Vanessa is too. It could be a make or break period.

CapnPro-good class to be in. Silke is incredible. Get what you can out of him, and ask him lots of questions. I dont think I will be teaching there ever again. I had two bad experiences there, don't want to strike out completely. Nothing against going to the school, just not teaching there.

Francis-take my time, I need it alot at work right now. I am getting retna burn from staring at nodes to fix all day...argh...please need to...zzzt...fix brain and get right again...I need new eyes too.

FOr the rest of ya, thank you for the positive support. I really think we can get things right again, I know we can. Hopefully some of the old school crew will find there way back and add to it. I am really glad to see that Mozeman is posting again, and his bro Aliasmoze. THose guys are hard working artisans, I can't believe they have time for the forum at all.

Anyway, my ride is here, and I leave for a week.

Happy holidays everyone and I look forward to a fresh new year at the forum, pending California doesn't go black out by then...

See ya,

Ron

[Superbug]

Capnpyro, i agree with you there. But maybe this forum will return to the small group one day since not many people get any replys with there stuff. I guess some people may even be getting fed up with having no responses, and having some other peoples drawings get 20+ responses just because they may be female. What happnened to the art?

[WildMyth]

Amazing stuff Ron, art and words. Its nice to know that people care so much about the forum. I know it hurts at times when you work so hard on something and people only point out whats wrong with it, but how would you know what to improve if fail to see and no one guides you.
Ship and a LightHouse.

2�

Merry Christmas Everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ceenda]

Hiya Ron, great to have you back and with great pics as well! Fantastic lighting on the second one.

Gonna have to make this a quickie, and I haven't read the other posts, but I don't feel you need to apologise.