[elam]

Howdy,
I was playing around with Vortex's pictures and had a question or 2


The vanishing points don't lie horizontally. Is this just a simple error?

And how would you work on a picture like this if you wanted to draw the horizon line and vanishing points? I mean, if you were working at a desk you would need a lot of room and a lot of paper. Or do you just fake it? Obviously, Vortex has the skills to puil it off.
elam

[Frost]

Elam: First, the lines you constructed from his drawing are off, so they are not conclusive. It is also possible to have an image where the horizon is not purely horizontal on the screen.

[elam]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frost:
Elam: First, the lines you constructed from his drawing are off, so they are not conclusive. It is also possible to have an image where the horizon is not purely horizontal on the screen.

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I don't understand. How are the lines off? I simply continued the lines he drew to vanishing points.

elam

[Ben Barker]

It looks like it's hard to judge that back corner exactly, and being off by a fraction at the shape makes a big difference at the horizon end. You don't have a lot to work with.
If I had to guess, I would say your point on the RIGHT is closest to the real horizon.

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edited because I don't know my left from my right.

[This message has been edited by Ben Barker (edited December 17, 2000).]

[Farwalker]

I have been wondering this myself Elam.

I think it is a great question.

Vortx? Anyone else.

Can someone explain this question in detail.


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Gamingvault.com

[Frost]

Elam: Hi there. =) What Ben Barker wrote is basically what bothers me. You can easily create objects from perspective, but drawing perspective lines from a drawing is not as easily done, exactly because even the slightest 1-degree off a line may push a vanishing point way out -- just one of those geometric things.

I'm not trying to defend Vortx, as perhaps he didn't really think about the horizon when drawing his image as both vanishing points were way off his canvas, which never needed to be shown or be precise in the first place, as it's a simple stad-alone sketch.

The more you see things such as buildings from a top view, the harder it gets to determine the location of the vanishing points, which in fact is a bad method to begin with. Using straight lines to draw things which are basically build around a sphere (the planet surface) simply cannot be right, but it's a good starting place. Seeing buildings from a dead-on top view will never have linear perspective and vanishing points, as you'll mostly get curvilinear(?) deformations towards all directions, towards the circular surrounding horizons.

Basically, building vanishing points from a drawing, especially from more top-down angles become extremely difficult to trace.

=)
cheers,
frost.

[elam]

hmmm. Actually, this is a big picture.
I had to keep adding area to the canvas in order to find the points. I figured that the higher up you are, the more the curvature of the Earth would become noticable, hence the funky horizon.

I guess the question I really wanted answered was how do you(experienced artist) approach a drawing such as this. Do you just wing it, in terms of drawing your lines?
Or, as you've implied, do you not do drawings from this angle?



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Elam
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Pieces? What the fuck are you talkin' about? Pounds, baby, pounds!

[Francis]

This is something that happens a lot in concept art (at least in my case). Here are a couple of "explanations":

1) Feng did not construct the perspective - he simply sketched the building very quickly in a view which shows as much information as possible for the benefit of the 3d artist building this model, and so "missed" his horizon line slightly.

2) The camera is in the air above the building, and its z-axis is tilted off of vertical (as if you are in a plane which is banking) - this gives the image an interesting dynamic quality you don't always see in a drawing of a building. Although if this were the case I'd probably exaggerate that aspect a little more.

3) As Frost mentioned, the lines you drew from the edges in Feng's drawings could be pointed just slightly in the wrong direction, which would affect the horizon line. For lines of that length, even the smallest variation can have significant results at its end.

I have done a lot of exact, constructed perspectives in the past (I did a lot of architectural renderings when I was still in architecture) so I have some idea in the back of my head about what's going on graphically. But these days (I now do concept art), I will just sketch an object or environment without going through that whole process of vanishing points/horizon line, etc. and just rely on my eye to tell me if something is off kilter. It's quicker (if you're used to seeing and working that way) and really it doesn't matter that much if the perspective is slightly off - you are still able to communicate the idea to your fellow artists. It only matters if some sharp eyed heckler notices and points it out for everyone else to see!

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[Farwalker]

Great info Francis.
Thanks for clearing up a fews things for me.

So with enough experience you can "wing" the perspective and not have to do a 2 point perspective.

Though, if you DID want to do 2 point perspective, how would you with such small paper size? Just add the vanishing points off on to your desk I guess?

Can anyone clear that one up? Thanks

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Gamingvault.com

[Francis]

These days I wing everything. Too lazy to set up all the construction lines, but in the past, I used pieces of masking tape placed on coworkers' desks to mark off vanishing points. Freakin pain in the ass.

Check this out and let me know if you have other questions.

http://www.teamgt.com/forum/cubes01.htm

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[[Shizo]]

WHat Krazy said =]
Also, who the ***** cares about vanishing points? When i looked at his buildings artworks, i knew they weren't drawn in a very realistic perspective, but what the hell. I don't care!

[Chapel]

FYI.. Vortx doesn't use a ruler remember. So, everything is not going to be exact. As long as you can tell what it is.. then he has achieved his goal. His work may not be the best to study perspective with. Use photographs.. the age old.. draw from life technique.

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited December 18, 2000).]

[elam]

I don't particularly care about vanishing points and horizon lines myself, but I don't have the experience to blow it off.
I usually start a drawing by just sketching and correct it as I go along. I just sometimes don't understand perspective and need to know what the hell is going on, hence my question. Gotsta know the basics, yo. Thanks for clearing it up y'all.
elam


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Elam
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Pieces? What the fuck are you talkin' about? Pounds, baby, pounds!

[Lonewalker]

Thanks for the reply Francis and Frost. This has helped a lot.

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Gamingvault.com

[Awetopsy]

Elam,

you ever heard of M. C. Escher?

take his infinite staircase picture and try drawing all the perscpective lines of that!!

Good luck!!

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I think Im wearing out my CTRL-'z'
http://noelsart.cjb.net

[Krazy]

hmmm nuthins perfect...

[Vortx]

Thank you Francis for clearing this up a bit. =)

I too, had about 2 years of Architecture at UC berkeley, plus 2 terms of very hard (almost insane) perspective classes at Art Center. I did go through the "plot your v.p. across your desk all the way to the other side of the room" deal. I feel pretty comfortable w/ perspetive now and understands how it works. So now when i'm drawing, i pretty much eye everything. As long as you keep your major lines in perspective (converging), everything should look okay. I'm not into super tight perspective drawings. A little bit of perspective flaring makes things look more interesting. One thing to keep in mind: just make sure your perspective lines are straight and going toward their V.P. If your lines are curving, your final drawing will look warped or bent (most common thing i see). Here's a quick example using an old drawing.



When you are doing concept drawings, you have to be fast. You usually don't have the time to plot everything out. If you are going for a tigher rendering, then set up the scene in a 3D package.

Bottom line tho, learn your perspective well first. Spend the time to plot everything out. Once you have a good handle on it, you can start eyeing.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask. I'll try to check back....=)

-feng

[Farwalker]

Awesome, this clears up a lot of questions I had. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate your point Vortx.

These forums rock.
So basically get a really good understanding of perspective, so when you do "wing" it, you do it correctly.

Sounds good to me!


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Gamingvault.com

[This message has been edited by Farwalker (edited December 19, 2000).]

[sheriftariq]

Hi,
Craig Mullins had an excellent solution to the perspective problem. He generated a 3d grid in a 3d drawing program, and then used that (I suppose) as a tracing layer to ensure a proper perspective.

Check out his explanation at http://www.goodbrush.com/hirez_pgs/process/process_6/process6.htm



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Sherif Tariq
Member: Neuro Evolutionary Rostral Developers Society (N.E.R.D.S.)

[sock]

http://www2.evansville.edu/studiochalkboard/draw.html

not that bad for the beginning, i think

[Solitaire]

ah nice topic - thanx for another explanatory trip through the theories of arts

ah and sock - great link

[nt]

Hey does someone have any url's concerning perspectives(how to learn)?

Cheers