[Optical]

well the fact that they match up exactly is gonna make people think that man, i said i believe you painted it man.

------------------
http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/0ptical

Bye bye Lets get high and ride Oh, how do we do these niggas But I'm not gonna cry I'm a Bad Boy killa Jay-Z die too Looking out for Mobb Deep Nigga when I find you Weak mutha-fuckas don't deserve to breathe
How many niggas down to die for me yea yea" - Makaveli

"Got my money in my pocket, finger on the trigger and I ain't taking no shit from no niggaz" -2pac

[bj91x]

thanks, optical. ^_^ You have no idea how good that makes me feel, after all these other stuff.

[Optical]

no problem man, people just jump to conclusions way to fast on this forum now... we have had *many* thieves and rip off artists.

------------------
http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/0ptical

Bye bye Lets get high and ride Oh, how do we do these niggas But I'm not gonna cry I'm a Bad Boy killa Jay-Z die too Looking out for Mobb Deep Nigga when I find you Weak mutha-fuckas don't deserve to breathe
How many niggas down to die for me yea yea" - Makaveli

"Got my money in my pocket, finger on the trigger and I ain't taking no shit from no niggaz" -2pac

[Snake Grunger]

bj91x : Hey fellah, I bet you're still living in your parent's cellar, downloadin' pictures of Sarah Michelle Gellar! And posting "Me too!" like some braindead AOL'er.. I should do the world a favor and cap ya like old Yella'.. you're just about as useless as JPGs to Hellen Kellar (she's blind)!



[This message has been edited by Snake Grunger (edited December 14, 2000).]

[bj91x]

After reading Optical's response...
Yeah. That's true. In a way, I kind of understand why these guys are accusing me.(Reading your response just gave me a little view.) If I saw someone else's drawing that I thought was copied from mine, I might have just jumped into conclusion, too, without thinking whether I was right or not.

Btw, some of my pics are done looking at other people's art. They are in the cross over section. I used to do these when I was back in high school. Now, I don't do those any more. I figured I gotta do my own stuff now that I'm not a kid any more.

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited December 14, 2000).]

[Optical]

Christ.. why are there so many fucking retards on this forum, grow up.

------------------
http://www.eccentrix.com/artist/0ptical

"Bye bye Lets get high and ride Oh, how do we do these niggas But I'm not gonna cry I'm a Bad Boy killa Jay-Z die too Looking out for Mobb Deep Nigga when I find you Weak mutha-fuckas don't deserve to breathe
How many niggas down to die for me yea yea" - Makaveli

"Got my money in my pocket, finger on the trigger and I ain't taking no shit from no niggaz" -2pac

[MoebiusX]

Sorry to offend. Pigeon's comment was obviously more constructive than mine, but I believe the underlying message is still pretty much the same, and it's an important one..

Fact is, if you pop onto a forum and say "look at this painting I did. I copied it from a photograph", very few people are going to be impressed... and you will have not learned anything about art. The response you get on this forum, while probably tainted by past encounters with plagarists, is going to be very similar to what you would get if you presented this to a potential client. "Painted over", "cut out", "trace", "copy", etc... not really words or phrases you want to have associated with your stuff.

The most impressive stuff on this forum, and anywhere else, is going to be suff that pops out of people's head onto the canvas. I agree with Pigeon, given enough time, _anyone_ could duplicate a photograph to near-perfection.. Try spending less time looking at other people's stuff, and more time looking at things around you in the world and at the images in your head. What comes out onto the canvas will surely be more interesting.

Sorry if I contributed to a witch hunt..

------------------

blaster studios

where do i put the hate?
to a pixzelated screen
i can't watch anymore

[ChanXiaoHing]

Wow...quite a bit of controversey. I would like to defend Baro on this one. I saw his art prior to his posts on this forum, and he does have a style. The Tommy vs Shauno pic is more his style, but artist like to experiment right? So, this SMG pic is an experimentation into a differnt style.

This SMG pic of his is actually quite old, he's been working on it for ages. I, personally, believe he did not trace the image. To try and help clear things up, I went and dug up an old thread from the Tekken Zaibatsu Fan Art Forum. This quote is dated to November 4th:

"Um. Isn't copying looking at something and drawing it? When I said copying, I meant looking at the pic(mag) and drawing exactly like the photo I'm looking at. As for the tracing thing. No I didn't trace it. The photo on the lower layer is turned off, so I can't see it as I paint. So, I have the mag in my left hand so I can see the pic I'm drawing. The photo at the bottom layer is used as a reference. I can't hold the mag straight when the monitor is not set horizontally. That's the point for the photo below. I'm painting, looking at the mag. If something doesn't look right, no matter how much I fix it, I turn on the photo layer, and turn off my paint layer, so I can see what's wrong. So, it's not tracing at all. I could just open the photo in a new window, but that takes up space. I hope I explained it right. When I first posted this topic, I traced a part of the painting. Then, I found a way around the problems I had without tracing, so I redid the pic. Get it?"

Hope I've helped =P

------------------
~Ron Chan~
Check out my site! -->Zephyr Studios

[bj91x]

Thanks, Ron. ^_^

MobiusX(sorry if I didn't spell right), your recent post was much better understood. You and Pigeon are right but for me it's not always about drawing to get better. I'd like to draw for fun, too. The thing is, I don't like drawing. It's annoying when people tell me, "But you're so good, how can you not like to draw?" Just cuz I'm good at it, doesn't mean I like it. I want to like to draw. Art is going to be my major, so it'd be nice to like to draw. In order for me to like to draw, I'd have to draw what I like, however I want. That's why I drew the Sarah pic. The last thing I want to do, is draw vegetables. I'm really good. Far better than the stuff in my site. The reason my stuff aren't that good, is cuz I only put half assed effort. Like I said, that Tekken pic took me less than 2 hours.

I'm not stupid. I know what you said are true. Next semester, I'm taking a lot of art classes and will be trying to get better. I'm already putting more effort into my pics. If you see my recent drawings, you can clearly tell I'm putting more effort into my pics. B4, I left pics unfinished. Now, I finish my pics. I even aded backgrounds to my recent art. Sure the bg's aren't that good, but it's a start. Like Ron said, I put in a lot of time into Sarah pic. I'm proud of that. If it was a year ago, I would have scraped the pic. Now, I'm determined to finish it.

You 2 are 100% right. But b4 you say anything, try to learn more about the situation. I'm not complaining about your posts. It's just that it's annoying when I draw something I want to draw, then some one comes in and tells me I shouldn't b drawing that.

I posted this pic to show my pic and to receive criticism so I can make my pic better, not to hear someone tell me what to draw.

One last time, you 2 are right about what you said. It's just not what I was asking 4.

Sorry if this sounds rushed. I'm typing with my Dreamcast controller right now, and it took me an hour to write this.


------------------
I believe I can fly!
I believe I can touch the sky!
I think about it every night and day!
I spread my wings and fly away!

bj91x
http://www.geocities.com/bj91x

[Ben Barker]

I believe you painted the pic. But I can also see where synj is coming from. It looks to me like you sampled the colors off of the original. Now, there's nothing wrong with that if you are trying it for educational reasons. You aren't learning as much as you could be, but whatever. Who cares. That's not my point. It does make it look a lot like a paint over though.
We've had many, many paint overs, plaigarists and filtered photos pour through here. For every 200 copiers there is only 1 "pierre". So don't get so pissed when people accuse you of it. You have to admit, in your first post (with no reference pic posted, and no mention of using a pic) you come off looking like a crook.

Now, I wonder if they make a paint program for the dreamcast...

[Blitz]

I duno guys.
That is pretty harsh to say someone is flat out tracing a picture even though you don't REALLY know. And to accuse or even say a person is taking someone�s art is pretty low. Until you can prove it, you should not even say it. Because that is the worst thing an artist can do.

Also what is wrong with having different styles and trying different techniques. Isn't that what Spooge Demon loves to do, and most people here consider him a god. So don't slap a person in the face just because he is versatile and has something called SKILLS.

Im just saying that this is a place for artists to post work and get better. If Bj did copy it than that is his problem, so unless you have some sort of proof, lets try and act in a manor that makes people ENJOY coming to the forum.

That�s all.
Blitz

[bj91x]

quote

Quote:

It looks to me like you sampled the colors off of the original.

Hehe, I'll take that as a compliment. No I didn't do that. As for the plagerizing, is it really that common? I kind of find it hard to believe that people would stoop so low, even though it's true. Well, I have a section in my site that has my original characters. Do you think I should take them down? I don't think that people would actually rip off of my characters, but I'm very cautious, and if some people really do rip off like that, I don't feel safe having my original characters in my site for everyone to see.

Yeah, it would be cool if the Dreamcast had a paint program. Then, I wouldn't even need the computer, except for typing. I don't ever plan on buying a keyboard for the DC.

What's up Blitz? Man, reading some of the responses just reminds me of how hopeless I am at writing. You guys send the point across well without making long essays. I'm hopeless. ^_^

[Ben Barker]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but it happens. Good color choices

[bj91x]

Thanks. So, I'll leave them up.^_^

[Light]

I dont see anything wrong with copying art work. It seems a good way to learn. Just by copying someones art work you can work on shading, proportions, anatomy, shapes, etc.

No art pops out of someones head. There is no evidence that the human brain can invent imagery information. People who have always been blind do not have visual dreams. All imagery comes from memory. So all art is copies to some degree or another. It may be possible for the brain to create certain primitive lights and darks (tunnels) like in near death experience.

Sorry guys. All art is copies. Also, I dont see any technical difference from working from your own photo or someone elses photo or drawing. Its all the same stuff.

Even life drawing is not much difference.. put a glass in front of you and its possible to trace (although the stereo imaging of eyes may not make this entirely the same) the scene.

I think doing original art works (ie compositions based on photographs, sketches build by using primitives and refined by using photograph reference, intrepretive representations of original photgraphs) is good for simple fact that seeing lots of same stuff copied over and over again gets boring.

Also, from a commercial or self expression perspective doing original work (which most likely involves copying) is vastly more valuable then being able to only straight copy something. However, I'm not sure that if a picture invokes a certain mood that redrawing that same picture is not an equal act of self expression. What is the difference betweeen going out and sketching a landscape to express one self and sketching the same landscape on a picture that invokes the same mood.

Anyway.. doing original works is harder as it requires one to form the composition, know anatomy, perspective, and many other things but copies are good too.

[the wingless]

A little quote of mine:

Bad artists borrow. Great artists steal

Interpret as you please


http://pure.as/copper

[Ben Barker]

Drawing from life is much different than drawing from reference. When drawing from a photo, the composition, lighting, and pose are there for you. The image is already 2D. You can even grid out the picture and copy it perfectly to your canvas.
This is not so when drawing from life. Drawing from reference is excellent for learning control of your medium, memorizing technique, and learning someone else's style, but that's about it.
Human brain can't think up an original idea? I have to argue with that one. Look at other fields, including art but also writting, music, and architecture, etc. Someone came up with the arch. Some greek guy figured out the triad. Buckminster Fuller, Leonardo Davinci, Pablo Picasso, the list of inovators goes on and on.
What do you mean by an original? Inspiration does not have to come from another piece of artwork. If I was able to come up with some alien that was completely free of any connection to this place, you wouldn't buy it. You're human just as I am, and your brain needs clues to be able to buy an illusion as that of a 3 dimensional creature represented on a 2D screen. We all work at making illusions, and without certain assumptions being made and met on both sides that cannot happen.

[BrunnenG]

Hello bj91x, I see enough differences in the images to have no problem believing you produced the painting. I actually took the time to stop over at your site to see what you can do. Some looks like a beginner, some looks really refined, some looks to be done quickly and some looks to have taken time...gee, go figure.

You ever notice that the 3 most argured subjects are politics, religion and art. I think looking at reference material to be perfectly acceptable, and I believe that history show that the old "masters" would agree. They used references all over the place. Models, tracings, rubbings, sketches. Ever see a painter setup in an area holding up his/her brush measuring the scene to get the painting "right".
It's not like you ever even said "hey look at my totally original work" whatever that would mean. I've only been reading this forum for a couple weeks and I've seen quite a few people spend a great deal of effort coloring other peoples drawings and getting rave reviews, compliments...so where's the difference if they had even traced over a picture, scanned it and colored it. It wouldn't invalidate their skill as an artist in the least.
There's so many different conotations to being a good artist that's it's pointless saying, this is the right way and this is the wrong way (some have been called great artists for leaning a couple boards against a wall!?).
Don't sweat it Dude, keep it up.

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Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most

[Tendril]

My 2Cents-
Ok, i visited ure site and for this post im going to give u the benefit of the doubt and assume that everything there was done by you(even tho most of it was copied from other pics)

quote from light -"I dont see anything wrong with copying art work. It seems a good way to learn. Just by copying someones art work you can work on shading, proportions, anatomy, shapes, etc."

Well i reckon bj91x is a prime example of what is wrong with copying. He is a really good copyer, and that is all. He has no style of his own. you will notice that in all of the pics he has copied the STYLE from the reference pic. If you just look at the penciled pics, you will see that the brush strokes are very different for each pic- some are rough, some clean, some have shading- noshading, good shading - poor shading etc... it looks like the style of the artists who created the original pic.

the way to get value out of copying a pic is to do it your way. construct the pose for the character, dont just copy the outlines. You dont learn anything about proportions, anatomy or getting characters that look lifelike and dynamic by copying an outline.

You can see the actual skill level that bj91x is at by going to his site and looking at the characters he designed. these pics he did from start to finish on his own.

im sorry if im being a bit harsh but its the truth.

[Light]

Hmm.. let me take these one at time.

Ben:

"Drawing from life is much different than drawing from reference......The image is already 2D. You can even grid out the picture and copy it perfectly to your canvas"
--

You can do the same thing when drawing from life. There are devices that the old masters used. You can look through a grid or use a view finder. As I pointed out you can trace on a plane in front of you. But you are still drawing from life.

---

" Human brain can't think up an original idea? I have to argue with that one. Look at other fields, including art but also writting, music, and architecture, etc. Someone came up with the arch. Some greek guy figured out the triad. Buckminster Fuller, Leonardo Davinci, Pablo Picasso, the list of inovators goes on and on."
--


I didnt say the human brain couldnt come up with an original idea (although I may have implied it). I said the human brain cant invent something from nothing. People who have always been blind do not dream in pictures.

Imagery is the "information" of art. Just as knowledge is the "information" of reason

In other words, creativeness should not be considered making something from nothing but rather re-combing and changing existing things. This is the science of things.

Where does that imagery come from? Another picture? Real life? Or imagination? Imagination = memory + modification or recombination.

Also, "real" art seeks to modify, distort, and change the basic imagery (nature). Most of the artists here seek to re-create that imagery and are more illustrators.

Tendril

"Well i reckon bj91x is a prime example of what is wrong with copying. He is a really good copyer, and that is all. He has no style of his own. you will notice that in all of the pics he has copied the STYLE from the reference pic. If you just look at the penciled pics, you will see that the brush strokes are very different for each pic- some are rough, some clean, some have shading- noshading, good shading - poor shading etc... it looks like the style of the artists who created the original pic."
--

And whats wrong with this? Personally, I find different styles, mediums, etc are better suited to different subjects. A quick scruibbly drawing can capture motion but a womans face needs to be shaded smoothly. Boris Vallejo has probably one of the most distinctive styles of all but he's also did illustrations for Star Wars and many other books. Sorayama Hajime used to draw kitchen appliances. Style is over rated.

--
"the way to get value out of copying a pic is to do it your way. construct the pose for the character, dont just copy the outlines. You dont learn anything about proportions, anatomy or getting characters that look lifelike and dynamic by copying an outline."

How can you copy an outline without also copying the space inside and outside that line?

But seriously, not everyone copies the same way. An artist can copy something in a multitude of ways. One artist may copy a figure by building it from the skeleton up, another may decide to use basic primitive shapes, and yet another may decide to copy inside and outside spaces.

Whos to say what method is right? If the person draws truthfully then what more can be asked?

I think you are also referring to inconsistency in his work. Most artist have inconsistencies. Art is just like gambling. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. I prefer to maximize my playing time but every picture is different.

[JLunar]

light spake:
"And whats wrong with this? Personally, I find different styles, mediums, etc are better suited to different subjects"

I fully agree that different styles suit different moods and actions.

While this is true, when someone is imitating, pose, colour, form, style from a single art work... and does this on a pretty consistant basis... We tread on to "art thief/copier" territory.

The point of Tendril's comment, "prime example of what is wrong with copying" - is not the difference in styles, but more the fact that the whole image is drawn to the original - right down to style.

I can copy an image - pose/form/colour - but style would still be mine. I'd think of it this way: how would you draw it if it were only sketched out in wireframe? how would you draw the eyes, the hair? THAT is your style. Do it again and again. THAT is your style. Not the art that is being copied. That's the artist's style. He's been imitating all those different artists while neglecting his own artistic inclinations and idiosyncrasies.

The true test isn't how well he can copy another artist, but how well he can do on his own, without reference. I checked his site, and I dunno which ones he did on his own or not - they looked all referenced to me. Not that I'm bashing that, since he said so on his site. I'd just rather look at his art, and not something that he'd copied. This, of course, is a personal preference.

Now, I don't really care if he copied, (not traced), from the gellar pic - it's his business on how he deals with art. But when you do this, it's a delicate business. I'd make sure you put somewhere on the pic, (not just the site), that it's been referenced from a photo or something, otherwise, you'll get alot of flack if you don't. You can't control who plugs the image, but you can control the fact that you did put the claification on the image. If someone showed this to me, I'd think that bjx had drawn it on his own, not referenced on a pic. With a "pic drawn by so-and-so from photo ref" that covers your hide.

That is all.

Jen :)

------------------
Jen's Skratchpad
http://www.skratch-pad.com/

[Silico]

hmm... how bout this, just post your steps, and that'll most likely get you to freedom.

it just seems kind of odd to me -- around her lips, it seems like... i dunno, it's just strange, around her lips looks like some type of fucked up(not very noticeable, look closely to your left of her lips) herpes or somethin... why would you do that to her? her right wrist is indented by some invisible thing... and her hair is like.... oh i don't know

just freakin post the steps you took to make her

------------------
`~*Silico

[Rinaldo]

Ohhh a thread with 50 posts...must be some poor shmuck getting blasted^_^

Everything has been said. but I would add as a note to bj91x- that sort of copying will teach you very little. it's not something that others are really interested in looking at. so why do it. if you want to get good, this is not the way.
copying from a photo is vastly differnt from drawing from life. it is much easier. I know this to be true from personal experiance (and talking to others). if you start to copy this way you will only make it harder to learn how to draw. I have done the photocopy thing. learn't quite bit from doing it. but I doubt I'd get a whole lot more out of doing another. it's bad practice that can give you bad habits. putting it on a layer underneath is even worse IMHO. it IS easier to do it that way.

A fave quote of mine is "originality is the art of hiding your sources"

I think this is pretty accurate. the original thougts are found by accident maybe. through mixing things up and getting ideas from that. developing ideas etc. thinking in terms of design prinipals.
not everyone comes up with original ideas all the time. some people have sort of original ways of doing things that they reuse with all their stuff. it's not really all that original to find one cool thing and then use it for everyhting.
We are only comprised of our memories and natural urges. nothing can really come out that hasn'e come in, but sometimes you can mix what's inside of you up and see what happens. chuck things into the mix until you see somethng you like, and then run with it. Idunno, the flaming that is going on here is compleatly unnessecary and in most cases unwarented.
I would urge people to maybe put more information into their posts at the start to say what they have done and what they want other people to comment on. make things clearer.

[Tendril]

Hehe, i think JLunar explained what i meant perfectly. better than i did

[Light]

This topic is about dead but I'll add a few more opinions.

Style is over-rated. A succesful commercial artist will need to be able to do work in many different styles. Unless you come up with something like South Park (which really could have came from old PBS cartoons) or The Simpsons then its not really important. I mean you may have jobs for medical illustration, comic book work, and children's book illustrations. Each will require different styles.

Secondly, he's drawing a real person. How else would you draw a real person then to look at reference? There is a lot of drawing that will require references.

And lastly, you can learn a lot from copying. How can you copy the torso of a person accurately without also copying the underlying rib cage and other forms?

I think you guys are missing the real point of drawing from life. The real point of drawing from life is to help you solve problems about the 3d nature of things. It's hard to visualize the nature of a bone and to really feel it without drawing from life. It's hard to know where the muscles connect and how the forms change from a 2d picture.

Drawing from life is good, copying is good, and doing originals is good.

[bj91x]

Well, my friend is right, but I guess I'll try one more time, even though it's hopeless.

Now, some of you really know your stuff. So you guys can ignore what I'm about to say.

As for the rest of you, you really know how to be biased. You just think of something and stick with your views without thinking that you might be wrong. Some one said, "even though most of it was copied from other pics"(sorry, I didn't want to point fingers, but I couldn't come up with a better way to explain this. I'm not trying to offend you, so please don't take it personally). Is this a fact? No, so why are you saying it like it's a proven fact? A lot of you go on and say, "this is this" or "that is that" without any proofs. Just cuz you THINK you are right, you go on and saay these things. Do you know how these stuff can offend people? What you guys are doing is flaming. I don't know, maybe some of you are immature and you were trying to flame.

"Copying from other pics won't help you improve"(or something like that. I'd rather not point fingers if possible). Did you even read one of my posts in page 1?

Before you make uneducated guesses, you might want to look into things more carefully. Most of my pics were copied? Less than 11 drawings in my site are copied from other art. These are in the "cross over" section. I have about 5 pics drawn looking at photos. These are scattered throughout the "image galleries". If they were done looking at photos, I clearly stated them in my explanation. If you want to see the step by step on how I did this painting, they are in "the making of..." section. All these offensive comments some of you made are shot down, and it shows that you obviously did not look into this thing before jumping into judgements. You're accusing me of (this is an example cuz I don't want to point fingers) not including "something", when I did include this "something". You just didn't see this "something" cuz you just jumped into conclusion, without looking for this "something".

Now, I know that some people are so biased that they just say whatever, without thinking that they could be wrong, or that they could be falsely accusing and offending people. And these people will most likely diss me even more. Well, there's nothing I can do about these people except ignore them. So, this will be my last post. I'd rather not waste my time trying to explain something to someone who's so narrow minded that they are afraid to admit that they are wrong.

ps- I went back to my site, and added more explanations. If you still accuse me of something, then it just proves how ignorant you are, cuz I made sure that everything that was done from looking at something, was labeled.

------------------
I believe I can fly!
I believe I can touch the sky!
I think about it every night and day!
I spread my wings and fly away!

bj91x
http://www.geocities.com/bj91x

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited December 16, 2000).]

[bj91x]

Oops, I forgot. One more thing.

Some of you are accusing me of stealing other people's style. You say I steal the artists' style for each drawing( or something to that effect).

Again, this is not a proven fact, just blind accusation. So try and refrain from saying these things. If you understood more about me, then you would know. Sure it's partly my fault that I didn't include a lot of information to help you out, but if I didn't give out enough information in the first place, why did you just judge me anyways? Do you HAVE to go and say something? So much that you don't care if you're falsely accusing someone and hurting their feelings?

Okay, this is my last one.

[NDR113]

Well...I must say I didn't even read the whole post. Because the same remarks just went back and forth again. What I don't get is...Why do you care so much about what people think? If someone was flaming me I just wouldn't reply. But if someone gives me constructive critisism I would. What I see is pages and pages full of you defending yourself against impossible odds. All the time you spent on replying to these accusations would've been better spent trying to finish your painting. I must say that I don't even care if you outlined it or not. I believe you didn't though (just making that clear) Maybe you just paint very accurately. Anyway I think it looks nice. I have had a discussion with a DRX lately. When something is and isn't art. Well I really don't know actually. And what is artistic anyway? What is permitted? If someone uses a font in order to create a logo that's not art I think. But you are just laying a base for a logo. it's just a "sketch"...isn't it? So I can imagine people justifying that in order to get a good result. Like taking the epiliptical lasso (spelled right?) to create a nice round ball (Franklin Richards: Heroes Reborn). People can say 'whoa, that's cheating!' But maybe you just did it for the viewers pleasure. To make sure that it comes out right. They do that very often in some comics. I believe that alot of people here are very subjective when it comes to critisism. And ofcourse alot of them can't have it themselves. As for copying styles. Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING I see here has been copied from something else along the way. I've only heard once of a girl who sat in artclass and just began fine painting out of nothing. With no training or whatever. She never even held a pencil before (to draw ofcourse). Should we only concider those people artists? because they don't copy from anyone else but directly from their enviroment? I can imagine that whitout realising she must've had paintings in her mind that she encountered throughout her life. So she must've had an influence somewhere. My point is it's allright to look at other peoples art and copy things from them. It will make you more varied as an artist and keep you up to date in the latest developments. Just because there are alot of manga artists out there for instance doesn't mean that you can't do it. Well I'm sorry but alot of people just talk too much shit in here. I have only started learning how to draw a few weeks ago. And I already notice how hard it can be. You're an artist as far as I'm concerned. I like your site and your drawings. I don't really know about styles and everything yet. So maybe they are right...maybe you do need to personalize more. But anyway I think your pictures are very nice and I hope to see a finished Sarah M. Gellar soon. As for your work being art... If your work isn't art then most people in here would not be allowed to show their work as far as I'm concerned... Either that or we have to change the name of the forum to "Digital Doodles Forum" I see alot of stuff I like here on the forum. And also alot I don't like. But you don't see me flaming people. It's all a matter of personal taste. I also notice that when I ask for some advice people won't give it because my drawing skills are beneath their lvl. There are alot of newbies here. And alot of great artists. And they just don't seem to mix. Alot of them seem to have forgotten they were also once struggling their way through a simple drawing like I am doing now. Believe me when I say that I wouldn't post it if I didn't think I was really improving alot. But nobody replies so I don't get any tips or hints on how to improve myself. That's just weak. So far I have had one positive reply to my stuff. And that's it. I'll still post everything I think is worthwhile though. Hoping that someone wants to help out. Maybe when I get better people will help me more. But this is the wrong post to get into this I think. So I'll just leave it to this: If all those "great digital artists" don't want any newbies around here they should form their own private little club. So nobody can bother them. If you visit this forum to help aspiring artists then do so. And stop flaming on each other just because you think you are better or something. it's very unpleasant to see people ranting off and on about all kinds of things while they could be giving me some helpfull tips on how to improve. But I guess some people just have their heads up their asses. And they just love the view too much to take it out. I might just change my signature to "Can't we all just get along?" But I doubt it'll help. Well sorry that I kinda dismanteled your post. I'll get back to the subject now... I really like your work and keep it up I say! Don't let anyone take you down.

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...I would rather die as a man than live eternally as a robot..."Andrew Martin"

[JLunar]

bj91x > if that style stealing accusation thing is about my commentary, then not to worry, that's not what I said or meant. I said you're imitating 'em, which is not the same thing. You've been trying too hard to remake the pic, IMO. and this is just my opinion.

The rest of my semi-rant is more directioned at the subject of copying, rather than you.

The only reason I warn you about the copyright stuff is that I've seen many, many a witch-hunt when someone is found copying/stealing art online. @_@ it ain't pretty. I'd just rather avoid that kinda thing, so I tend to promote super-clarity on ref pics.

I do apologize if I've offended you, it was never my intention.

light > I mean style, not in a singlar sense, but in the indelible and distinct touch one puts on an artwork. Even in comics, logo work, children's illos... you'll have a style in each.. but it's still your style. I think you're talking about different mediums, more than style. I'm just arguing this point for the hell of it. heh.

Jen :)

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http://www.skratch-pad.com/