[bj91x]

I deleted this.

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[Jezebel]

bj91x -

People wouldn't post their artwork here if they didn't want others to talk about it.

Critique - A critical review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature.

Commentary - A series of explanations or interpretations.

Keyword being interpretations. I personally thought that a large part of being an artist was to project an image that would envoke a response from the audience. Since when does the audience have the exact same opinion as the artist?

And why do you think that only professionals have the ability to critique? A professional can have an opinion as biased as any amateur.

-Beth

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[Jezebel]

And one more thing -

A critque is an opinion. Nothing more.

Nobody around here is forcing an artist to change the way they do art. Nobody is being unaccepting of one person's style. The only person that has control over that is the artist - THAT'S ALL. The only person.

Normally I wouldn't respond to a post as silly as this but it's late, I've had crappy weekend and quite honestly I'm growing sick and tired of all of the "holier than thou" opinions floating around here. Bah. I'm done.

Normally I'm a pretty sweet little girl, I promise.

-Beth

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[nori]

I find it really annoying that you use the word 'peeps' instead of 'people'. Could you please edit your post and change all the 'peeps' to 'people'? That would be great. Thanks a bunch.

[bj91x]

Yeah, you're right, Jezebel. But I was pointing out the offensive comments. As for the professional thingy, here's what I'm saying. Let's say a person is sick. If you want to try to help, you'd need some medical experience. A person without medical experience can try to help out, but since that person doesn't know much, would only cause more damage. It's the same with CT. Too many peeps thinkg that CT is an easy thing to do. I hope I explained it better.

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[jHof]

Your just so humble arn't you?

I really haven't seen people get upset at the comments that are made on their art work lately... I think your a little upset/jealous for some reason or another? I don't know... You ok man?

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Dictionary.com

cri�tique (kr-tk)
n.

A critical* review or commentary, especially one dealing with works of art or literature.

*crit�i�cal (krt-kl)
adj. Abbr. crit.

Inclined to judge severely and find fault.

====

Now I don't think the good people of this forum are actually "Severely" judging the art work. But they are spotting things that may or may not have been seen by the artist. I sometimes work on a peice of art for a long time and after a long time. You look at it and sometimes you just don't notice small or even large mistakes in proportions, color, hue, perspective... Maybe our unconcious minds love our work to much to critique it properly.

If you know that a square has four sides and you saw someone make theirs with seven. I think you can mention that "Generally" squares have four sides. They may not care you said so, or they may have learned for next time.

A lot of artists here arn't "pro's" but have been studing art for a very long time. And besides, we can't just wait for the "Pro's" to answer our art questions all the time. They have jobs ya know...

If someone has a light source coming from the left side of an object. And the object is a lite up on the right side. I'm sure as-poop gona mention something to the person. Unless, they say it's sopuse to be that way. In which case I would prolly say. "I'm not sure that's working to well... but hey it's your pic."

Maybe you have been cut down to harshly-lately. Get over it... Learn from the harsh remark or don't. Thats up to you. Telling you what to do, is definately not in my power. But I would suggest the learning part, it helps. Harsh remarks help us all, if we didn't have them... Man we'd have some pretty boring art work around the world.

With love and kisses man. It's ok, life goes out with out this forum or not. There will still be millions of artist willing to help other artists.

ZORT!



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1)Under construction.
2)I love to speel
3)Running your body into things if funner than you think!
4)I cleverly figured out how to add a 5th line to my signature file by

[This message has been edited by jHof (edited November 27, 2000).]

[Jezebel]

JHof you took my definition!

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[bj91x]

OH MY GOD!!!
I'm getting really frustrated. I should probably mention that I'm not very good at explaining things. Whenever I try to explain things, peeps just don't seem to understand what I'm talking about. Several times, when I said somethings, the other peeps totally misunderstood my intentions and just got pissed off at me. I also never did well in Eglish classes where I had to write an essay.

Okay, I'm going to try this one more time.

If I made it sounded like I received a lot of bad CT, and I'm upset, sorry. No I didn't get a lot of CT and decided to tell peeps to shut up. I just read a lot of "CT", that were just offensive remarks that seemed to have no point from peeps who don't know what they're talking about. They think they are good enough to CT, just cuz they see something wrong with the pic, not realizing that they might be wrong.

I wan't pointing fingers at the peeps in this forum, if that's what it sounded like. I just heard a lot of BS, and thought that I might make a sig about that.

Did I explain this better? What you're saying are all true, but that's not what I was pointing out. I really hope that I explained this better.

One more thing. Does my sig sound like I'm bitching at you peeps? Just wondering. If it does sound like I am, I'll take it out. That's not what I was trying to do.
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Baro Jung http://www.geocities.com/bj91x
Too many people think criticism is about telling artists what they think the artist did wrong.
They don't understand the artist's intentions. They simply make comments about what they want to see.
Don't criticize unless you know the artist's intentions, and are a professional.
Otherwise, you're only being disrepectful to the artist.

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[jasonN]

"Do you have to go around trying to make other peeps do things your way? Do they have to think like you?"

No they don't have to think like you. So stop trying to get us to think like yourself.

"cuz he has his own way of doing things"

Maybe we have our own way of CTing artwork?

Apply your own theories to what you are doing right now. In effect you are implying that you don't like the way people crt work so that they will change (why else would you speak up about it?). We don't have to see it your way. We don't have to think like you. You said it yourself.

Jezebel and JHof's definitions should be more than enough evidence to back up the opinions of the majority of the board.

Now be quiet and let this post sink to the bottom.

-jason

[bj91x]

I'm not talking about all the CT's that peeps say. I'm talking about the ones that sound offensive. I was also saying that peeps should think a little more carefully b4 CTing. No, I'm not trying to make you peeps think the way I do. I was talking about the offensive remarks!

[jHof]

Who are you to say they don't know what they are talking about?

Fine, if someone says(While your both standing, looking at some artwork.)"Boy, that square has four sides... Hahaha that artist is dumb!" What do you do? Come to a digital art forum and complain about how people don't know what they art talking about? Or you might try and say "Well, from what I know, squares usually have four sides." Which then leads into "debate", thats a whole other subject. If you know your right, know your right until proven other wise.

If your just using this forum to vent of some frustration at "how some people just don't get art." , we can't help you there. Thats part of life. People call me up all night saying their internet doesn't work cuse our service sucks. But yet we have thousands of people online while I'm talking to that person. Some people just don't "get it" in any subject you hop to.

Post some artwork.

(Dr. Evil voice) "Let me tell you about a man named ShHSssss!"

Sink, sink!


[This message has been edited by jHof (edited November 27, 2000).]

[bj91x]

Hmm. Okay, I was rereading what I posted, and I say "most of you". Maybe this is what's making you peeps upset. That most of you, isn't saying you just post offensive remarks, so shut up. I was just trying to make a point.

Shit, wait. That "so shut up" wasn't me telling you to shut up.

Let me put it this way.
That 'most of you", isn't me saying, "you just post offensive remarks, so shut up" I was just trying to make a point.

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[yoshi]

don't reply to nonsense

[hennifer]

hey there i think i'm the inspiration for this thread, which is just clogging up the bulletin board even more. why not continue with your original thread? ..anyways, first i said it was ridiculously long, which for a signature it is. if that's your opinion, cool, but do we have to read it with every message? especially since the way you've got it worded, it sounds really REALLY arrogant.

then i said it was ridiculous. i say that because you are posting your art to a message board, with tons and tons of users. once you have posted your work, you don't have the right to limit who can respond. that's the nature of the board. if you're posting, that means you must agree to that nature.

perhaps you're just 'bad at explaining things' which is fine. but if so, why have such a long-winded paragraph at the bottom of every post??

food for thought.

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hennifer

[jasonN]

Okay then, it's all good.
Next time just put in your sig:
"People who post offensive critique should put more thought into what they say"

I understand what you are talking about now.

-Jason

[bj91x]

Yeah, you peeps are right. This is nonsense. I clearly suck at explaining things, I seem to be upsetting you peeps even more, whenever I try to explin, so you know what, I'm sorry. I'm just gonna delete the message. Sorry for the misunderstandings, I suck at explaining, I should just shut up now.

[Matt Elder]

At first I thought not to even dignify this thread with a response as it will just hang around the board. However I think there are a few things you need to seriously think about.

In case you hadn't noticed, people come here to exchange ideas and get suggestions. If these ideas could only came from the 'professionals' there would be about a dozen people fielding hundreds of questions everyday. Think about it, this isn't going to happen.

As for telling people what to do, I'm not sure what you are getting at. If you look every morning for the sun to rise in the north, it isn't going to happen. Someone may see you doing this and say, "the sun rises in the east". If the person takes notice, they can look and see something beautiful they'd been looking for but couldn't find (and it didn't require much on their part).

In art there is this huge tendency to get too close to images. A 'fresh' set of eyes can work wonders along with exchanging tips, "I see your having a problem with that, I had the same problem and tried this and it worked. You might like to try as well". From what you are saying, you are implying that the person has to know how to do everything. Well if you know how to do everything, you must be a fantastic artist and don't need our 'suggestions/comments/ideas/opinions'. If someone askes for help, you are saying the only people that know the answer are the 'gods'. I don't think so.

You've been a member for 4 DAYS and you are telling us how things are to be.

ARE YOU ARROGANT OR JUST STUPID! WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING 99% OF COMMENTS ON THIS FORUM ARE WORTHLESS, HAVE NO VALUE AND ARE MADE BY PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO STUPID TO KNOW BETTER.

Usually I make a particular effort to welcome people to the forum but in your case a piece of advice - think about what you are saying as you are offending the very people you are asking for advice. Even though it is the web, you are still in a very small industry and people know people and don't forget easy. Tread on people's toes now (like you are) and this may come back to haunt you down the track.

As for your analogy with medicine, very few people here are claiming to be doctors. But if you see someone who is 'sick', you say "hey you might be sick as I can see these symptoms". The person might then go, "Oh OK, I didn't realise, I couldn't tell" and take some medication or other form of corrective action they think is required. These are suggestions that the person can incorporate or not. Nobody is taking a gun to there head and saying "you will do this".

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See ya on da flip side
Matt
http://www.mattelder.com

[bj91x]

Yeah, I agree my sig is ridiculously long. It does sound like a BS. I should have proof read more. I'm taking down the sig. I'm also going to stop trying to "explain" things. The times I did try, I only made things worse.

[bj91x]

Okay, here's my new sig. It's fitting to my "English" skills. If you're one of those peeps who read my post, ignore it. I'm an idiot.

What JasonN said. Yeah, that does sound much better, not to mention so much shorter. Well, there's a reason I didn't do well in English classes.

A question. In my new sig, when I say "you suck", does it sound like I'm talking to you peeps? I mentioned this is a "note to self". Just making sure. I don't wanna piss peeps off again.

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Baro Jung http://www.geocities.com/bj91x
Note to self:
"You suck at explainig things(there's a reason you piss peeps off every time you try), so zip it."

[This message has been edited by bj91x (edited November 27, 2000).]

[Roark1138]

Medicine is objective. A particularly talented surgeon might be called an 'artist' for his ability to get things done with skillfull hands and a creative approach, but medicine is based on scientific facts.

Art is not medicine. Except for some specific fields, such as anatomy sketches for reference books, defining what art is, how to make art, and how one interprets it is 99% subjective and every individual will have their own unique opinion on it.

The difference between the "pro" artists and those aspiring to be, goes beyond skill level, talent, and experience. It's also attitude.

Professionals should have a thick enough skin to be able to accept all criticism and later on process it and do with it as he and she pleases.

But think twice before not only dismissing the thoughts of someone not on your "level", but not even listening in the first place. Thoughts and ideas coming from novice, intermediates, and experts alike are equally important - they all have their own unique perspectives.

[shaithis]

I can give you three pieces of advice on how to improve your ability to express yourself in writing (I do it professionally, so I'm at least sort of qualified).

1. Read. A lot. Everything you can get your hands on, from crap to literary genius.

2. Eliminate excess words. Keep your posts as short, and to the point, as possible.

3. Think through everything you're trying to say before you even start typing (or go back and re-edit yourself repeatedly, before you hit submit, which is how I often do it).

Oh, and lose the sig. Just ditch it entirely. The first one was poorly worded, the second is self-defeating. That's not an insult, just a statement of opinion.

-shai

[Matt Elder]

OK. Seems as though there has been a language barrier/problem when you created this thread. Maybe it was intentional, maybe it wasn't, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Try to be a little bit more careful when you start topics critisizing people. As you've probably found out, people will respond very quickly and decisively. Unfortunately I will remember you for all the wrong reasons. I've been to your website after I saw your Sarah Michelle Gellar post a few days ago, went to your website and thought it was pretty cool. Now that seems a little tainted. Just me I guess.

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See ya on da flip side
Matt
http://www.mattelder.com