[Frost]

Micke: I saw PIGI at work today, it looks quite good! (although the guy jumping off in the beginning looks a tad bit unrealistic IMO=)) But you guys did a good job!! Very nice!

[[Shizo]]

Why unrealistic, Frost? I jump off trains right onto the high-voltage barb wires all the time!! Don't you?

I just played the demo.. instead of doing my homework or sleeping hehe. DAMN! It took me 5 tries to pass the first level in easy mode. I liked
Strange setting though..

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Chinese student do homework, AND they study real hard!

[shahar2k]

hey Micke I just got done playing the demo on hard
the models look great, but your coders should work on popup a bit more (maybe fade in world models like they do the terrain)

awesome work on the weapons and models again, btw can you post the texture map for the main charecter? and do you lay out the texture before or after the model is completed? (what I mean is, once you start the texture, do you rework the geometry?

[shahar2k]

it's kinda funny when I first played the game, I was sure the engine blew big time, but then I found out I had the performance bar all the way to the WRONG side....
you guys should label that thing,
everything else feels pretty slick, some animation woes with multiple shots on the same person missing during pain anims (or is it just my bad aim?) nothing else I noticed

the terrain is really great, I was thinking that polys couldn't look as good as Delta Force Land Warrior's voxel engine, but it comes damn close, (poly terrain looks better in the distance, but worse up front)
the weapons are awesome, I'm still teaching myself how to texture objects, but I've got modeling down
http://home.earthlink.net/~shahar/gallery/3D/

if anyone does modeling, could you tell me anything about these that would help me out? Scud is my only complete model as of now,
I started by teaching myself on milkshape a year ago. and I'm trying to make the transition to max now.

[poxen]

ah! goldeneye...awsome game..
i think i WILL like it..
=)
any screenshots?

(and if you want to..you can...send a copy to me...then you just mail me..OK! )
!JUST DO IT!
please....

=)

[poxen]

ah! goldeneye...awsome game..
i think i WILL like it..
=)
any screenshots?

(and if you want to..you can...send a copy to me...then you just mail me..OK! )
!JUST DO IT!
please....

=)

[micke]

Poxen: Here's a couple of old ones.
It looks much better now:





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-Mikael Noguchi-

Mikael's artwork

[This message has been edited by micke (edited November 21, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

Yeah whats up with the performance bar? i only got to play 2 times since it was rather late so i didnt get to test it out...

[Shaded]

Holy.

Friggin.

Shite.

<i>Most</i> Impressive.

[Shaded]

What? HTML is off?

Hrm. Unacceptable.

[SizzorIntake]

hmmmmmmmmmmm.... can I join the group as an intern, it will give you lots of publicity...

13 year old kid gets his most wanted present! A job in a game company!!! I turned 13 3 days ago...

[micke]

Thanks for the feedback!
There is so many things that i wished we had more time to improve
Binke: Glad you liked it.
Frost: Thanks Do you mean the animation or the model?
shahar2k: The popping that you refer to is
level of detail wich has to be done manually
and take much time to do. I'm afraid we don't have time to fix it. Try it with the maximum graphic detail, i'm sure it looks better then.
To everyone:
There has been quite a few problems with that slider..I totally agree with you and so do alot of people. We've talked to the programmer who made it and he'll check into it.Right now it does'nt make much sense.
I just hope and prey that people will try it in it's original mode, othervise it don't look good at all...

Mikael

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-Mikael Noguchi-

Mikael's artwork

[faustgfx]

okay, what's up with the in game textures? they look like they're 32x32 rez maximum each. blur city.

also what's with the oversimplified geometry?

the gameplay itself feels pretty ok as do the animations and character models, but the level geometry.. arrr!

...

dig the main menu background pic though :>



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Joachim]

faust, I'm sure you must have been played with the lowest graphic settings. The programmers here have done the slider like if it would be the opposite, so it seems wrong. The slider must be far left for highest quality.

It's stupid...I know. It will be changed for the final game though

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Joachim's Place

[Frost]

Micke: Well, I really hate to be pointing stuff out to someone who is probably better than me... but the animation mainly. This message are only small notes on things I and others have noticed while watching it, and should simply kept in mind for the next project, just as an image crit.

For the train jump sequence, there is no running start, yet he leaps 20 feet or so... it would sort of be impossible to get instant momentum, that's what I was pointing out.

I also seemed to have noticed a small skinning problem in the crotch area as he's climbing ladders, but skinning characters is not all that easy at times depending on the tools you use.

Another guy noticed that the girl in the intro would have a hard time typing considering her hands. =)

Hey, it's very very nice, seriously, and I know what game development is and how it goes so I can understand how corners had to be cut because of deadlines and technology limitations. Don't take those badly and feel bad about releasing it, it's great! Future technologies will permit much more, and it will be much much more interesting. =)

hugs. =)

[Joachim]

Hehe, frost. . . I'm not going to make exscuses. I agree with your points, but in some way, I'm happy with the result anyway because it's a ok fun game to playm, I think though. I agree that many things are quite dodgy, as the amount of people that worked on it was far too little compared to what we had to make. We were 3 artists, like f.eks me, I've had to do about 400 animations alone +models. So, f.eks that jump in the beginning, is something you only see once in the game, which is one reason for not putting too much effort into making it super cool. btw, here's the anim, jump anim I don't know if the whole animation seem wrong or if it just appear to be a bit strange because of the angle, but he does take a few leaps before he jumps of ?!?
Hehe, about Anya I agree in plenty. Yet again,I had to animate her before we got the sound, so with no clue what she was saying or how she should act, so the animation had to repeat over and over. And, when we finally got the voice, I didn't have time to change anything

Hmm, sorry that it sounds like I'm making exscuses, I just wanted to give you guys an impression on how the development has been....though there's never any escuse that allows you to say, "I could do better but didn't have time" bcause that won't sell any more copies
But, I've just noticed that it's quite hard making games for the PC 1st pers. market. I'm usually very open to critiscm, but it was a bit sad this morning to read like the shugashack page and see that a huge bunch of kids just love to throw shit at everything for the fun it. I know that it's not something that you should take in on yourself, but still hard when they say stuff like the characters looks like midgets and that they wouldn't thouch the game with a 10f pole, etc.. ...-sorry,...I think I will have to get drunk today....

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Joachim's Place

[micke]

Heh...Me too

[eetu]

i just finished playing the demo and i have to say that ... i liked it! :)

the graphics weren't that 'flash-bang-cool' but they served their purpose very well. it had a nice sense of realism, the scales were good, it's nice to have such far-reaching visibility. on the other hand the level of detail was really quite low for a new game. well those with older machines are probably thankful for that :) (yes i had full detail)

as playability goes, it felt really very good. even a guy i know who is usually extremely critical about gameplay issues liked it ;)

i got the feeling that the graphics were there to support the game and not the other way round, as is often the case these days.
which is good in my book :)

eyecandy can be nice, but if you really play a game a lot, it's definitely better to have good playability and graphics that serve their purpose.

eetu.

[-incarnation-]

personally i loved the game it was spot on. Graphicly i was very impressed and animation was good too, it certainly is a step forward from other games with large playing fields (delta force 2 and tribes.)

The only thing i could pick with is the AI it didnt quite live up to my expectations. Example : I go into the first building's computer room with the guy standing in at the vending machine, i pop up shoot the guy standing next to the door with a loud gun and the guy, 10 feet from me next to the vending machine doesnt notice.

Some of the path finding for the enemies seems a little crazy too, they run past you for about 20 feet, turn round run past you again then stop and fire.

I know im being very picky but apart from that i felt it was superb, definetly going to buy it

[faustgfx]

*grumble*

*goes back to delta force 2.

as the allmighty warrior chuck norris, i have the people of vietnam to kill!

well africa, vietnam, same difference.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Frost]

Bad reviews? oh that sucks. Well, if it's any consolation, the first game I worked on at Ubi was rated 3/10, 8 months of repixeling over 800 textures with optimized palettes for N64, after 1.2 years of redoing stuff, and having the game designers change their minds and making the artists change the whole levels over and over again. So I know what it feels like.

I don't want you guys to get the idea that you did a bad job ... you didn't. It looks good and I bet it plays just as good, which I haven't had the chance to. If you get drunk, do so to celebrate! Being a team of only 3 artists, you guys did an awesome job!

[[Shizo]]

DUDEZ! DEWDS!!!1
Play the demo again and do this:
Climb on top the ladder, then either jump off the roof or climb down other ladder. Then head to the water barrel thing and climb that.. (you'll have to kill 2 dudes at the first house though). Climb and put a knife up that guy's bum and take his Dragunov away!
OMG sweetness, i love snmniping!!!! All i used there was Dragunov and then i climbed down and finished everyone with AK47 (ahh), grenades (BOOM!!!), and Minime.. =]

Check out all the buildings and paths, you'll find something sweet (like syringe, grens, minime, dragunov, else that i didn't find yet..)

Micke wanna give a hint on what else is hidden in the demo? Any cheats/console commands?


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Chinese student do homework, AND they study real hard!

[Sergenth]

Dudes,

Keen game.. plays between Half-life, Deus Ex and Goldeneye on easy. Well, not easy... it's just that I've played Commandos, so all stealth games are easy in comparison... hehe (toughy game!)

I'm not gonna complain about the AI... I only complain about stuff I know how to do better, and I have only the faintest hint how AI works in a 3d game. I like it when the pacing guards look around when I miss with the sniper rifle, good touch.

Tell the code guys on your team that they've done ladders right too... no sloppy Half-life or Deus Ex stumbling around and falling off sideways

Where do I write in some bug reports? I found a nasty geometry showstopper glitch right behind the Objective Truck. Clean dump to the Desktop, oof!. It's when you step within uh... localized 5 feet around the wooden fence, opposite side of the dumpster behind the truck (and also if you touch the wooden fence that the dumpster is next too -- trying to jump on the fence for instance, if you are standing on the dumpster). I tested this 3 times and it dumped me all 3 times.

And hell's bells, you got textures that are far superior to some games featuring stealthy 60's spy girls. Feel good 'bout that!! Nifty engine too; are there going to be tools released to the public for level making and the such?

[maxwell]

Wow great job on this game guys. For some reason I wasn't expecting to like the demo when I installed it, but I've totally changed my opinion on that one.

I like the way the first level allows you to complete it in different ways (rambo style, stealth killing, different paths, etc.). The way you guys handled stuff like climbing ladders in the 3rd person view works really well. And of course the artwork and animation is great

My only gripe is that I think the player should be looking down rather than up when he's climbing down a ladder.

Max

[Wrath]

Micke and Joachim:

First off, I'd like to congradulate you both on your excellence in the cutthroat arena of 1st person shooters. The game looks great so far, and even though it has some glitches (most of which are easily overlookable), I find it extremely enjoyable! And even if I buy the game, play it through once, and sell it back to Electronic Boutique, it will be worth it because I will know that I have supported two great artists that worked diligently (sp?).

Thanks for all of your hard work guys!

[aquamire]

Micke, Joachim, just wanna say, extremely well done for such a small team. Well, art team anyways. I'm not one to usually play this kind of game, but I thought I'd give it a shot, at least to check out the art you two did, and I have to be honest, I was overly impressed, not just by the art, but also the gameplay. Sure, it's got some gfx glitches, but to me it's pretty fun.

There's some rather dumb people in the video game community who dont have any idea the time and expertise that goes into making a video game, especially a game like this. If you guys had fun developing it, and you like it yourself, I say to hell with people who can do anything but complain when really they dont even know what goes on behind the scenes. And with all projects, jobs, and etc.. it's important to grasp what you've learned from the project. I look forward to the next Innerloop title you guys do. It can only be better.

Just remember you cant please everybody.

Oh, and as a question, how were the textures for the terrain done? I've always wondered how that kind of stuff is generated. Do you hand paint it (which I imagine would be a ton of work) or work off aerial photographs?



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/Aq
[email protected]

I'd put my wittiest remark here, but I'd scare you.

[Sergenth]

Well-shaded and random textures are surprisingly easy to make with just filters in Photoshop....
www.phong.com has a rock texture that I adore

[Joachim]

ah, thx you guys. I'm much happier now
I was really down earlier today, much thx to you guys I feel a lot better. You guys are the greatest, I couldn't live without this forum And, I really do appreciate critiscm, just not people bashing down hard work with nothing more that destructive words that gets you nowhere.


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Joachim's Place

[Joachim]

do I really need to split up the post to get it accepted with a 64kb modem?

frost, yeah, I've been through pretty many projects now. Though IGI has had it's amount of bad feedback, it still the most successfull one. I've learned much to accept that though I do my part as hard as possible everything needs to fit to make a good game. I've spent pretty many years myself working hard for nothing, except bad reviews. I guess, doing huge projects like game, it's better to focus on your own area and not care that much about how the whole package gets accepted. Btw, were have you been lately. I've mailed you a few times, don't you like me anymore

shizo, yes, that level has a lot of hidden paths. When picking up that sniper rifle you can slide over to the next water tower. You can alos jusmp off on the way and fall down in the end area of the level But of not, you can go from the secon water tower and over the roofs of the buildings and then climb over a wire in the near end....There's other ways, but I haven't tried every way so I don't remember it all

maxwell, that's only because the animation is reverted Try pushing the action button (shift?) and you will slide down instead. It's quicker

aquamire, the landscape is programmed polys with random mountains, and then to be adjusted as much as the level designers want, flat ground, tunnels, etc...The texturing works as in photoshop. You have a scalable brush with pillow edges (is that what it's called? -Imean the edge of the brush has a falloff getting more and more transparent) so you can just brush the landcpae as in phshop, but each brush contains a certain texture or a combination of many to get less repitation, so when brushing two textures or more on top it blends between which makes you get many different variations or that you don't get the feeling that it's just one texure here and one there....you get the point. The system is probably complicated programmed, but failry easy to use, so to brush a landscape takes about an hour or so, nothing more.


One thing I really agree a lot on is the AI.That and the multiplayer option is something the game suffers a great deal from. But, in a way, you kind of get to accept the stupid brains in those AI a bit more when playing the rest of the game, but still that is something we are embarassed of... we will do much better next time, for now we have the whole engine and there's only room for improvement


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Joachim's Place

[Joachim]

opps, sorry

[This message has been edited by Joachim (edited November 22, 2000).]