[spooge demon]

Hey Joachim,

better late than never, eh?

http://www.goodbrush.com/public_ftp/web_files/disneydrawings.zip

I remember when I was first an art student and taking many drawing classes I was mightily confused. One class used a big stump of charcoal and huge newsprint and had you just go for the gesture. Another liked fine observation and used a 000 technical pen. Another was concerned with construction. Which way was the Way?

In the end there seems to be two different ways to see and think about drawing. One is structural, making sure that what you have drawn makes sense in a 3 dimensional world, and one deals with the appearance of values and shadow patterns and halftones and highlights. To draw well, you have to be able to think both ways at the same time (!) It is hard, but you have to. Simply copying what you see (even if you are amazingly accurate) will not do. Drawing is a selection of facts, and a suppression of others. You are trying to express form, and there are a lot more sophisticated ways of doing this than �don�t bother me with thinking, I will transcribe what I see.� I guess this is what may be the shortcoming of a lot of the photo-based artwork that I see done. It is not Saying anything. Not to start another war, you all know that I am pretty liberal when it comes to defining value in art. This opinion is just where I happen to be at the moment.

These Disney animator drawings are what they give out at art schools to show students what they are looking for in potential animators.

[Joachim]

hey, thanks a lot spooge ! I love these kind of "gesture" sketches, gives a lot of inspiration....I agree a lot to what you said as well. I guess it all comes down to how much thoughs and understanding you put into what you make. I guess in schools, they teach you to work in different ways, according to what kind of education you've chosen. Like,there's so many animators, that hardly never even clean up there sketches, and all the fosus lies in the linework. I mean, it matters a lot on what you choose to be specialized in.
Personally, though I have a lot to learn, I think it's good to try to understand and master many aspects of drawing..as it will improve no matter what. Like, if you learn more about light and color, you will be better and understanding the 3d form, which even for an animator can help them see the shapes clearer even if it's pure linework.
That is one of the things I respect about you. Even though you've done a lot of matte paintings and industrial design you've chosen to try out other things, as characters, etc, to make your carreer more interessting. I think this is one of the reasons why your work has so high quality and that you get more unique and separated work from the mainstream. Correct me if I'm rong, that's just my impression.

Btw, I just looked through "the art of Prince of Egypt" book which I really like. Too bad there's nothing from you in it. But, I really like the work from a guy named Paul Lasaine, do you know him ?

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Joachim's Place

[Chapel]

I forgot all about that stuff spooge. Thanks for posting them. (even if it is 8 months later)

[Justin Kramer]

quote

Quote:

Simply copying what you see (even if you are amazingly accurate) will not do.

I see photo-realistic rendering more as a means than an end--a preparation. In my way of thinking, one earns permission to stylize (interpret/simplify/etc.) what one sees only after one can actually render it without stylizing. Oftentimes people cover up the fact that they don't actually SEE what they are drawing by stylizing it: using stereotypical colors, fudging proportions. The best stylized works I've seen have come from people who can do the photo-realistic thing, but choose to select and suppress facts to bring out whatever emphasis they are trying to bring out. If someone selects and suppresses facts prematurely (i.e. before being able to really see and render what's being looked at), it usually shows.

just another two cents,



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Justin Kramer
tin.nu

[TheMilkMan]

Again Master Mullins enlightens us with his deep insight . I say we demand that Spooge be cloned and replace all art teachers in the world..mine all sucked.....

[Chapel]

Justin: I think you misunderstoof spooge's comment (or I have). But what I think he is saying is copying a picture for the sake of copying is not going to help. It is better to understand how the lighting effects the object.. why shadows are where they are.. why the picture you copy looks the way it does. Trying to understand and comprehend the things going on in the picture will take you further than just copying the picture. Only after you can do that can you begin to stylize like you say. But stylizing is not what he was referring to.

[Shadowman]

Art school seems like a life time ago. I think over the years you start to forget the basics. Thank you Spooge for the reminder. This just comfirms to me that going back and takeing some figure drawing classes might be very helpful.

[aquamire]

I understand how simply copying a photo isnt going to help you much art wise, but I've been playing around with it lately, just for the heck of it. Im trying to break elements in photos down to simple shapes and such, hoping to better understand all this "shape design" stuff Micke seems to be so good at and Spooge never shuts up about. Is this bad practice? I find that my accuracy of drawing various lines and shapes based on light and shadow seems to improved since looking at photographs. Unfortunately I've only been working in b/w, so my knowledge of color is terrible, something I need to work on immediately!

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/Aq
[email protected]

I'd put my wittiest remark here, but I'd scare you.

[opticillusion]

Thanks again Mr. Mullins,

I am currently in a figure drawing class, at my high-school actually. I am a senior about to send in my portfolio in two weeks. My portfolio lacks a lot of life drawing and observation sketches. These pics really help me because I have not seen many life drawings myself...or gesture mainly. So I am going on pure instinct of what lines to draw in that 5 seconds to 5 minute time span. Also, I feel stumped when in the class and hesitate sometimes because I'm new at this, and have never had to draw figures in such speed.

Thanks for the pics, and the explination.

[micke]

Great stuff!
They reminds me alot of the sketches that Joachim snatched from the disney studios recycle-bins in CA .
I really wish that Mozemans firguredrawing class were continuing
-Micke

[Justin Kramer]

Chapel: oops, I guess I did miss his jist, thanks. The stuff about photo-realistic vs. stylized still holds as a self-contained rant though, even if it's not relevent to this discussion



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Justin Kramer
tin.nu

[Rhomb]

Thank you Spooge.
Chapel: I think that Justin didn't mean just copying photos or pictures but rather reproducing accurately what you see in life around you. At least I understood it that way.
-Ville

Oops.. Justin got there before me. Just forget my babble.

[This message has been edited by Rhomb (edited November 11, 2000).]

[Chapel]

My mistake guys.. I meant to say copying for the sake of copying is not going to help by itself alone. The breaking it down part is what matters most.

[Placebo]

I really like this Disney paintings! Ever seen the Atlantis sketches?