[spooge demon]

Sorry for the new thread...

Fred posted a few cool gouache heads yesterday and it got me thinking about where my old ones were. This one was only at the 14 foot level in the great pile, so I took it

A lot of people I sense are kinda mystified about what gouache is and if they have ever used it, how on earth is it ever used in a productive way. You would know what I mean if you had ever tried it. This style is a bit like impressionism, but whereas impressionism shape design reinforces the flatness of the canvas, this style uses shape to try and reinforce form. By that I mean those little strokes wrap around something as opposed to being random. Filters in PS do what impressionists were after in some cases.

You CAN blend gouache, but only a little bit, and if it the two values are very close, and if there is plenty of paint on the board.

So why do people think this stuff is good to learn to paint with? As you can see, the painting is executed by little, independently mixed and applied �tiles� of paint. You have to get good a mixing. To turn a surface, you have to mix one color, decide exactly what color goes next to it to turn the form, and mix that one two. Adding to the misery is gouache has a wider value range while wet than dry. It dries toward a middle value. Very difficult to match exactly.

Also the paint is water soluble, even after you have applied it. This means you have to use enough paint, and mix it to just the right viscosity, and then put it down, and LEAVE IT ALONE. That is what brings the color underneath up and makes mud. You can paint on gouache even with a 1/8 inch layer of paint down.

So what is this teaching you? Look at the color, mix it accurately, mix it well to a proper consistency, put it down and leave it alone. Think before you act, think, plan, execute. If it isn�t right, it won�t work.

What bad habits does this help break? Sitting with your nose 2 inches from the board, not looking at the model, not thinking, blending away, getting caught up in the buttery, blendy forgiveness of oil paint.

The Quaker oats man is done in gouache, as is Uncle Ben on the rice package. it is very flat (not glossy) and was very easy to reproduce. Because it has no gloss, it has a limited dark value range. High key is the Way.

This image was planned from a photo, I did a drawing first, then painted. It departed quite a bit from the source. It was damaged by water in a move, so I rubber-stamped it a little. There is a lot of funky stuff in the drawing. I was pretty early in the program.

Would I recommend using this stuff? No, not on my worst enemy. It is boot camp, and if you think pain is good for the soul or for learning and discipline, go ahead.

BTW, Syd Mead only paints with gouache.

[sear]

good job.

/me likes a lot.

[Sumaleth]

I've never used gouache but I've always had this belief that it's probably a lot like painting in digital with opacity always at 100% and no pressure sensitivty.

Thats a setup I would never serious considering using and here your description of gouache sounds a lot harder than even that!

I've always wondered about Mead and his use of gouache too. I guess his whole style is developed around what gouache does and what it looks like..

(he has fiddled with digital too!)

Row.

[pierre]

It is a very nice head Craig.

I agree with you that gouche teaches you dicipline, in many aspects of painting that is good for you.

I can totally relate to what you mean by the rigor that water based paints, especially gouache puts you through. In the acrylic media, you can at least be sure that the underlaying paints, to a far degree, won't be smudged by the overlaying wet brushstroke. In watercolor, you need to pretty much have the bulk of your image mentally done before applying any paints(again, ofcourse depending on where you want to head with your work). I also agree with the oh so annyoing factor that water based paints tend to dry to another color than the intended and/or blended one. Considering that many traditional matte paintings were made in acrylics, it must have been really hard to match the colors, which I think is crucial for a seamless blend in the shot.

I think that it actually would be good if you could recommend painting with gouache in this forum, since it is very much similar to the digital painting process, in many ways, though it is very different in others, depending on what tools and technique you use. I think it would be healthy to go through a steel bath once in a while to clean up the traditional sense of painting a bit, since I know from myself that digital painting can make one neglect some of the very basic foundation that the tradtional medias creates for you. I know it is a painstaking process, although good for you in the long run.

The way I make an underpainting in the digital realm would never work traditionally, at least not to the same degree of control. And the way I make an underpainting is pretty much derived from my traditional sense of making one, and I still can't look at that and say if that is objectively correct. Ofcourse I believe that anyone could have started out digitally right away, just the way we could have driven a car before riding a horse, nevertheless, I have a hard time figuring out just how much of the traditional technique influence my digital technique.

When I paint digitally, almost always, I turn of the sensitiveness and opacity and control all that manually, since that force me to rely more on blending. The brushes area always hard, just slightly soft. Never the airbrush, I see it as the enemy =).

I know one thing though, I like painting traditionally more than digitally. But for many reasons, there are many rational aspects that make you stick with digital.

Syd Mead, I believe, often used and/or use alot of airbrush in his gouache paintings. Doesn't that, in some sense, take away the rigor of pure blending that gouache forse on you, since he can achieve gradiations by "cheating", adding the color pigments in "dots" via the airbrush, but with the same color.

I love your traditional work Craig, keep posting more of them! They have taugh me alot, and they still do!


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http://www.crosswinds.net/~pierrehannah

[This message has been edited by pierre (edited November 10, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by pierre (edited November 10, 2000).]

[micke]

Thank you for the useful information
about Gouache. I really like the painting
you did. Nice and warm colours wich makes it alive. Inspires me to try it out again. I've used Gouache myself in school, but only for flat surfaces if you know what i mean, more graphic poster kind of things.
Thanks for the inspiration


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-Mikael Noguchi-

http://www.katode.org/noguchi/

[Rinaldo]

Hehe, It looks so easy when you and fred do it. I had a go earlier today and fell flat on my face. it was not a pretty sight . Luckuly I scaned the drawing first. so I scuttled back to PS and started anew. I think I'll stick to watercolour for now.
I like mixing watercolour with and gouache tho.

[opticillusion]

My trouble's with gouache are the same, but magnified because I am new to the real painting media, coming from a heavily drawing based background. I am truly inpired to keep at it though, even just to learn the concequences of mixing wet and dry paint or learning how to distinguish form like you've said, but especially to better my knowledge of color and its variation under different light.

Nice painting! I really like to see that and look at the shadow for example and figure out how the neck looks in shadow, or the red shirt in shadow in light because you cannot just paint over with a thin layer of black and get the darker tone...you need to know your colors. I think that's pretty valuable when it comes to any form of painting, and enhancing your light source and so on. Very nice work, and thanks for explaining about gouache and it's pros and cons.

[Joachim]

thanks for the info and the great painting ,spooge.. I've always been scared of trying gouache because of it's limitations, ...now I'm terrified
I don't know much about it, as I've never tried it, except what I've seen and heard. But, it's very odd that so many good artists have chosen to use it....isn't there some unique ability to that medium that makes it good in it's own way, the same way as oil, acrylics, watercolor, etc has there positive sides ? I'm just asking because I don't have a clue, but want to open my eyes for some new mediums.

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Joachim's Place

[[Shizo]]

stick to computers hehe

[Danny]

Gouache.. hmm.. yeah.. Had to use the stuff to death during my art school years. I don't think we ever were allowed to use another paint. I sorta developed a love/hate relationship with it. The drying up thing was indeed a nightmare. :P
I'll see if I can find some of my old gouache stuff and try and get some of it scanned so I can post it to the forum. For everybody's sake, let's hope I fail..
btw... cool pic Spooge! Post some more..



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