[Speve-o-matic]

Well I am an aspiring 3d animator but next year I have the choice of going to Art school.

Living in South Africa there are not too many options available to me.

The one school has a whole bunch of Intergraph and SGI workstations (They teach 3ds Max and Maya), but they don't concentrate on traditional art skills as much as I would like (They do some gestural drawing and figure drawing). Their course is 2 years.

The other school I'm considering is less equipped in the 3d department(for the time being) but they put far more emphasis on more traditional mediums and subjects. (Photography, Painting, illustration, Video and Film, etc)
They teach in 3ds Max, Lightwave, Softimage and A:M. The course is 3 - 4 years depending.

But guys like Balistic and Synj (and I'm sure others) seem to pull of such incredible 3d without having 'formal education in 3d' as such. (I could be wrong)

So what do you guys think is important, besides a passion and love for 3d?

- Steve

[Sumaleth]

From my point of view (and this might be one of those questions where there is not correct answer), I would lean heavily towards saying that schooling in traditional art skills would be far more benefitial than schooling specifically in 3D.

While it's definitely possible to become quite proficient at "art" stuff and "3d" stuff purely through personal experience, I do feel that there is a bottleneck on the "art" side which is harder to get over purely through self learning. You can reach a certain level, but to go to the next level is quite difficult.

I believe that a good foundation in art schooling will allow an artist to more easily reach a higer level once they reach this bottleneck.

3D is actually comparitively easy to learn IMO. There are a few hurdles to get over but generally it's nothing that a bit of trial and error won't overcome. BUT, while 3D is generally easy to do, what is very difficult in 3D is making it -look good-.

If you look at Balistic's images - that quality is not just the result of being able to "do 3D". In fact, I'd almost go as far as to say that the reason his images look so good is -mostly- because of his handling of the "art" side. The 3D aspects of his images are often quite simple.

Likewise Synj's stuff; the 3D side of his animations are incredibly simplistic (I hope Synj agrees), and the real reason they work so well is because of his grasp of character animation, camera work, and storytelling. All of which are not specific to 3D.

I could go on and on, but to get to back to the point; I strongly believe that the second school is the one to go for.

Row.

[Speve-o-matic]

Thanks alot for your reply Sumaleth. Yeah, what you said was totally true, I just needed an external opinion on the matter.

All of the high end 3d animators I have managed to contact, via e-mail or by taking a look at their webpages all seem to have an incredibly strong traditional art background.

It's just that there are so many of these schools offering 3d animation courses and they have such incredible eqiupment, but they completely ditch the traditional side of animation. It's sad to see.

You don't need an Integraph workstation and Maya to make good work. (As the main teacher at the first school seems to feel)

- Steve

[This message has been edited by Speve-o-matic (edited October 29, 2000).]

[Speve-o-matic]

Anymore opinions on the matter? Just interested.

[Zombie]

I can teach anyone software. I can't teach anyone to be an artist.

A good solid grounding art is, I feel, essential. I'm not saying I want to see a degree in art, but I would like to know that an artist can communicate through sketching, and have a good grasp of form, and color theory.

I'm no fine artist, but I can get the job done with paper and pencil when the need arises.
-----------
mike hovland
3d artist
midway games

[Svanur]

Boris Vallejo said something similar, that a person without a traditional art training could encounter a bottleneck, cause the teachers are teaching you to see. They have also gone through the good old "trial and error" phase so they know what might you in becoming a better artist.

[ook]

I have to agree 100%.

Anyone can learn software in a matter of weeks. Becoming a good artist takes years (if not a lifetime).

All the big animation houses look for a strong traditional portfolio first. A lot of them have proprietary software which you will have to learn anyway.

- Jeramy

[This message has been edited by ook (edited October 30, 2000).]

[balistic]

Definitely concentrate on traditional media, but don't deprive yourself of software experience either. Personally, I recommend taking fine art classes at school, and teaching yourself 3D at home with an inexpensive program like Hash's A:M or Caligari Truespace.



------------------
Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions
http://www.bprince.com

[LethargicBoy]

This may be out of context, but another important factor in learning is motivation, motivation is the trait that will allow you to come home after a long, tedious day and work on YOUR art instead of vedging in front of the tv.We all probably have our ups and downs in these areas, but I think the motivated and patient artists will always come out on top...it's just a matter of time and conviction.

[samg1739]

Wow its so nice to see people out there who know what they are talking about I agree w/ 99% of everything everyone said. As a former Professor in one of the top art colleges in the nation I got SO!! Frustrated w/ everyone running around going "MAYA is the best , NO MAX is No Soft" and so on, I just told everyone "learn how to draw!!!" You can learn Maya or max in your basement w/ a few good tutorials. Ok I will get off my soapbox now.

[Jason Manley]

ok..here is my two cents.


GO to art school and learn to draw.

if you can draw and or paint well then like most of the artists here at black isle..who had no 3-d training, you will be able to get the job you want. (we mostly look for traditional skills only as we can teach software in 3 months but cant teach art that quickly as it takes years to learn to draw)

If you can only do the package and not draw or paint or do the traditional stuff then it will be difficult to get a job where you have any creative control and are good enough with image creation to make strong images.

LEARN TO MAKE ART FIRST.

if you dont have the traditional skills and background you will be PAID less to.


good luck


jason

[Speve-o-matic]

Well, I went to take a look at another college today. More choices, decisions, pros and cons.

This is going to be harder than I thought.

Another thing which seems to be incredibly different from college to college is the contact time per week.

The first college above has 30 hours contact time per week.

The second has 14 per week . . . and is a shitload more expensive than the other two.

The one I visited today has about 35 - 40 hours per week.

I think I'm analysing too much, I don't know. I just dread making another decision which keeps me further from my goals.

This sounds more like therapy than a post. Sorry.

- Steve

[YourMum]

Hi, Speve-o-matic.

I agree with Mr. Manley about training traditional art skills at first. But I have noticed that you can do both things succesfully as well. I think that it's a benefit if you know some 3d packages and you have much knowledge of 3d media - it's good for you if you know how to make 3d graphic as well. You can learn a lot from 3d packages about lighting, shading or perspective stuff, for instance. I have also a though that it's not good if you have only some 3d skills but not any other traditional skills. Hmm.. though I think that you can't be good 3d artist if you haven't got skills to do art. This is just my opinion but.. it only me. Yes, you can learn how to use MAX, for example, in 3 months.. drawing and painting is absolutely different thing. Some great old artist has said that your artist skills come to the daylight by drawing only. You can't be artist if you can't draw. Hmm.. perhaps that is true.

Hey, good luck for your choise!

-Juha-

[synj]

speve-o,

hey - sorry i didn't reply before. I didn't see the thread!

To answer your question: I dunno really. Sumaleth said it pretty good. My suggestions are weird and might not work since I have random study habits ehehe but I believe reading a couple handdrawn animation books helped out alot. Alot of 2D animation techniques should be applied just as much in 3D if you ask me. So my suggestions would be to study the mechanics of character animation and dont get frustrated unless you haven't got a decent one within 2 years. it takes a while :/ eheh

also - I use no plugins of any kind (the toon filter is included in the program), and don't know anything past the basics. I'm gonna try learning some of the fancy things in a month or two. Once you find something that works just stick with it, even if its the bare bones of the program! (as long as you can produce a decent product that is).

hope that helps! :/

-synj www.synj.net

[Speve-o-matic]

Hey people, I just thought that I'd update you all on my situation and see what you people think. Don't hurt me.

I had decided to go to neither of the colleges I originally listed. I've decided to do a complete year of drawing and painting at another college. No 3d (I'll supplement myself on the side).

I've got all the time in the world and I want to focus on the basics and give them the attention that they deserve.

I've realised, from this forum and other sources on the internet that if I don't concentrate on my drawing skills and neglect them I'm going to kick myself in the head for every year that it passes.

So next year I'm doing tons of pencil work, pen work, marker work, watercolour painting and some pastel work, then I'm going to reassess my situation and see what I feel like doing in 2002.

This forum is incredible. It is one of my greatest sources of inspiration. Thanks for the help, and I look forward to posting my work in the future.

Thank you all, and have a good night, or day.

- Steve