[ook]

Heya all.

For those of you who missed my first post heres the recap. I'm starting with black and white masses as a way of working towards a full color matte painting.

Here's step 1:



Here's step 2:



Here's step 3:

Tweaked sky lighter. Worked on post shading. Added big crack.


Things I learned doing step 3.

1: Use quick masks and the soft brushes to edit / create lighing. Is faster and works better than the normal circle brush.

2: Light through clouds is tricky... It kind of glows thru. Clouds have mass and form cast shadows and recieve light just like anything else. Just render them with softer brushes.

Things I learned doing step 2.

1: Starting with the pure black shadow areas probably wasn't the best way to go. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out different values in my shadow areas. I still have a lot of work to do in that area.

2: Reference is important. Both the overpass and the plane were easily improved by looking at some reference.

3: Scale is even more important. I spent a fair bit of time fixing scale errors. If you look at the first version you will notice that the guard rails were like 5-10 meters tall relative to the door on the plane... The windows were also too big. This is one drawback of working on a small image for so long. Some details are just smaller than a pixel... and when you paint em in they look oversized. Probably have to fix a lot of wires and such after I enlarge.

My next steps:

1: Better define shadow values. Right now too many shadow values are the same.

2: Overall contrast tweak.

3: Massive color add/adjust.

3: Enlarge, merge in photo textures, and add lots of loose detail.

Please if anyone has time for a quick paint over (Craig?) I would love to have some help sorting out some of my lighting issues. I wold like to solve them before I blow it up and add detail.

Thanks,

Jeramy

[This message has been edited by ook (edited November 06, 2000).]

[immi]

Thanks for posting this. Its interesting seeing how images develop and change over time. You've got a great image so far.

[Affected]

It's looking good all right. What's with the pixelation, though?

------------------
Affected

Democracy is a lie

http://affected.xs.mw

[Rinaldo]

they're a bit pixelated. I'c really like to see a nice hi res big one, 'cos I really like the image.

I like the way you're verbalising the issues you've come across, this is extreemly helpfull and sensible.

You look to have a fair amount of skill as well. Very nice image.

[spooge demon]

I will do something on this, I hope I have the time. I was going to say first time around that you don�t need to go straight black and white. You could go with two values, much closer together.

This is a neat point. The less contrast and texture you have there, the closer your two values can be and you still have an image. The more contrasty the texture, the more contrast you have to put into your two values in order for the image to read. So you started off flat, that is fine, it allows you to use values that are much closer to what they will be in the final ptg. I am sure you have been fighting that black form the first stroke.

You could start from B+W and then use that as a mask channel to fill with the appropriate color and value.

Another good way to start is from flat and very low contrast shapes. Fill your canvas with what you think will be close to the final tonality of the ptg. Then pick a value that is slightly darker. Paint in the big masses. I think you will find that that suggests more volume for the beginning than super high contrast.

Strong shapes are great in illustration and painting, but not as useful in matte work.

Right now you image is really really dark. The sky is almost always brighter than anything on the ground, unless the sun is out and reflecting on something. There are a few exceptions, but not many. A distant mountain range is always darker than the sky above it. So yes, a lot of ambient fill with a brighter sky (the source for the fill) will help out a lot.

[ook]

Heya a few quick responses.

immi:
No problem. I really wanted to start a dialogue based on my experiences. At the same time I hope I can improve my art. My work has always been critisized as being too "cartoony" and I think my only hope for improving the realism is doing lots of painting and getting lots of people who are better than me to make comments.

Affected:
Thanks, the pixely look is because I am working very small at this stage to try and sort out most of my lighting value, and composition issues before I blow it up to full size.

Rinaldo:
See affected.

Spooge:
Yes... I am fighting the black like crazy. I'm going to try and get some more light bouncing around underneath the bridge. I don't think I will use this technique in the future. Thanks for the sky feedback. I'll try brightening it up.

[Rinaldo]

it can't be that small. how mamy pixels is the image you have in Photoshop?

[Capt.FlushGarden]

I heard some complains about the pixelation, but I think it's kind of charming using "double pixels" It's cosy and reminds me of old games like, sam&max, Full throttle & all the nintendo games!
I like the picture very mutch, but who reeeealy want's to paint like Craig mullins, He's best at it, It's his style, and the lucky bastard came up with the technique first, I think..hehe

[ook]

Well, I don't really want to paint exactly like Craig. I just respect his ablity to accurately sketch the light / form in a scene and still stay loose and energetic.

I love pixel art too. I think it takes a whole different skillset to paint small.

-Jeramy

[spooge demon]

Yes, don't paint like me please. One is enough. It's not good for you or me. But the stuff you are thinking about is all really correct. You will eventually be able to do somehting very different with it, because it is so basic.

[ook]

Yeah I'm sorry about the "Paint like Craig" title but this really is a quest to improve myself (and others) not a quest to be just like Craig. I doubt it's possible to be just like him anyway... His work is constantly changing and his own style is evolving. it's alot different now than it was int he marathon days. I doubt any two artists would ever make the same choices at any given point. Everyone has their own sensibilities.

Matte painting I think is half art half technical. I'm really just trying to learn the technical. I'm hoping the art half is in there somewhere already...

Actually I'm not sure but I think Craig matte paints a heck of a lot like Michael Pangrazio of ILM fame. Actually a lot of matte painters use a similar style where the objects that people are supposed to look at (usually around the action) are highly detailed and the rest of the painting is loose and less refined so as not to attract too much attention.

What impresses me the most about Craig is his ability to stay loose while he works. My own work often looks overwrought and "tight". I think I need to do more cube studies.

Oh yeah... is the center of my sky too bright now? Ugh...

- Jeramy

[aquamire]

Ook, that picture already has beautiful atmospherics, and it's great how your presenting and sharing this with everyone.

However, what I'm wondering is how this method would work with brighter images? It seems the way you went about it could only really bring out a fairly dark atmosphere. It works great for that, but what about other scenes in which light is so much more intense?

Just my thoughts. Your posts have been very intuitive.


------------------
/Aq
[email protected]

I'd put my wittiest remark here, but I'd scare you.

[spooge demon]

From the middle... Then the darks and the lights at the end.

[Ben Barker]

Do airplanes have those horizontal things that high up on the tail? Here's some pics I quickly found: http://209.102.96.60/ftp/images/23535/phase2/DCP00808.JPG http://209.102.96.60/ftp/images/23535/phase2/DCP00805.JPG

Heh, even in the pics the sky is extremely bright. Great painting as usual Spooge.

[ook]

Aquamire:

I think it could work with lighter images if you were to fill the bg with a middle light color and then load the black as a selection and fill it with a middle tone and then work darker and lighter on top of that.

Note to all who read this.. The whole black and white thing was a in interesting idea but I don't reccomend it! Listen to Craig... he is a smartie man.

Cheers,

Jeramy

[This message has been edited by ook (edited November 06, 2000).]

[ook]

It's pretty small, only 400 x 230. I double sized it in the preview images so it would be easier to see.

- Jeramy

[Joachim]

very nice pic ook. Have you hand pixeled, the dpaint way, or ? Since it's such a low rez...-implementing spooges comments would make the picture even better. would love to see that ALso, I think what spooge did roughly, to make more "details" I mean much more wires, small variations in shapes, made the bridge, plain and the whole picture look bigger.

Spooge, great as usual, the brightening of the sky truely made the whole picture more "believable". Nice colors too.

------------------
Joachim's Place

[ook]

Joachim:

Nope it was all done with a wacom in Photoshop... I think i went too detailed too soon.

I'm planning on a major paint over very loosely (though I'm scared) to liven up the colors and adjust some values.

Very soon the enlargement will come... Anyone have any comments on the big crack I added? Does it confuse the composition?

-J

[Eckhardt]

Hi Ook,

great picture, there is something strong and moody in it. I like it a lot, somehow surreal picture, like Dali�s stuff.

cheers
Eckhardt

[Fat Assasin]

I like the big crack running through the bottom of the picture, it helps to tell the story. Without it you might think that the plane crashed through the bridge, but that's confusing because the plane is sitting at the wrong angle for that. So with the fissure you see that it's some kind of post-apocalyptic world where everything's gone to hell. And I really like the lights in the lower right corner, they give a sense that's there's still life in this dead world.

The only thing that bothers me a little is all the empty space between the bridge and the buildings in the far background. You'd think there would have been more buildings around, and therefor more debris now. Unless the bridge used to span a river or some body of water, in which case you might want to add some random pools of water and make the ground less flat.

Overall, really cool. I like the atmosphere. But then I have a soft spot for post-apocalyptic themes, the Fallout series is one of my favorite games, and this picture kind of reminds me of that.

------------------
The truth shall set you free, but first it will really piss you off.

Visit my world