Sijun Forums :: View topic - har-dee-har... 666 and all that.

Bradford · Guest Member #

scorchmon: death ends your existence. so why not create a belief that if you are a good person, you go to an afterlife that does not end your existence. therefore religion (popular forms) was created. perhaps i am not reading your post correctly but hope this helps

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Bradford · Guest Member #

enayla brings up very good points.

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faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 5:27 pm

what he said, keywords create, belief, illusion, false.

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Scorchmon · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 7:04 pm

Bradford, I don't know exactly which part of my message you're talking about, but I'll give a general response:

The outcome of such a proposal is that whether you are a good person or not is purely subjective. Thus, you have different religions with different opinions on who is a good person and gets to go to the afterlife. Most of the time religions state that you have to follow a bunch of rules to be considered a "good person". I wouldn't want to have to waste my life trying to follow such rules because there's no guarantee that the religion I choose to follow is right. I want to behave the way I want to because of my own choice and not because of a fear that if not I might face punishment after death. Anyway, I'm perfectly happy with my existence ending after death and there being no afterlife.

Religions may have started off like how you describe, but if you look at what religions have evolved into, they're used more for social control.

Bradford · Guest Member #

i agree.

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Scorchmon · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 7:24 pm

cable · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 8:00 pm

Jesus Fucking christ,

dont hate me because i like to talk about what i belive to be true, an that i will defend what i do believe. Damn!

Starseed · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 8:06 pm

I burn with a smile.

quote

Quote:

think what you will faust, in the end we will see who was right!

I know this has been quoted cable on this before, jc I believe, but I had to quote it too. Cable, I wanted to let you have your innocent non-anger inspired responses with faust, even though most of what your saying has no value because it is strictly based on faith. That doesn't bother me, because I've learned to put up with that, because I do see the good that comes from aspects of organized religion.

But with the quote above, this is anger-inspired. I hate hearing this. This is intolerance.

I'd like to take this a step further. Why does any belief need a figurehead who is above them? And it seems to always be a conscious sentient being who is all-powerful, ie, god-like. Why? What sentient being(s) do we know of, with evidence, that is greater than man. (And forgive me, but I use the term "man" and not "humankind" because I consider man to represent human, like I'm sure it did originally. Besides, "woman" is just "man" with a "wo" prefix to separate the sex).

We haven't found one. In the meantime (the billions of years, likely) before we find one, why dont we worship the greatness of being human? The only "gods" we have ever known were men. Flawed men, like the rest of us, because they cannot predict the future. They couldn't never have the capacity as the great scientists and philosophers who made great discoveries about life and the physical universe we live in. They are tyrants, though seemingly noble tyrants to their followers. But the fact that there are millions, or over a billion followers of certain religions says that the values this religion instills are values that work for its followers, and make them feel they belong and that they are doing the right thing with the choices they make through their lives. This part I agree with. But:

#1 It should be a choice to join a religion, and after one's grown up in one,

#2 This religion should see no problem with a young member leaving because he agrees more with the teachings of another religion.

#3 There should be no sentient figure above man that they look up to. Remove the "God" and in its place, substitute "What the people this church has learned thus far, it would be in our collective best interests to . . ."

---

About Hell . . . how can we be certain it exists when our "omniscient gods" can't provide us with accurate coordinates for its whereabouts? First it was in the flaming core of the earth . . . now the farthest depths of the universe where, to paraphrase cable (i think), "there must be lots of space"

This is a perfect example of what happens when men play god. Your best guess, with your knowledge base, is that a likely place for hell, given hell's newest definition, is the outermost reaches of this universe. I on the other hand, as a man, would not agree, because I think it is more likely that such a place would be our universe, the whole thing, except in another dimension. I could think, maybe there is an energy attributed to doing evil deeds that is felt in a certain dimension. Likewise, there is the same thing happening in an opposite way in the "heaven" dimension. The pull from each side through our lives will go back and forther, and in the end, wichever has greater than 50%, pulls the whole soul into it. (Or, maybe the side with the greater fraction BECOMES your new sole, the other side is lost). Or, as David Bowie once said, "God is an American" . . . in which case, you might have to wait for a recount and toast your buns in Hell's waiting room.

-mt

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everything is relative

Starseed · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 8:11 pm

Afterthought:

Which religion is the right one? Maybe the one that most helps you attain your wants while respecting the rules agreed upon by the majority of a society?

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everything is relative

faustgfx · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 8:11 pm

now would you stop posting to this fucking thread, it's starting to get irritating to have to look in to my Outlook every 0.1 seconds just to see if it's a sijun thread post notice, a email that has some value to me, or just spam.

well that and the subject should have never been brought up, but now we're here, thanks to Cable's unbreakable love towards [nothing] and dickheaded attitude with it.

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jcterminal · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2001 9:09 pm

if god is so loving and all-forgiving, he'll forgive me for not believing in him.

if god is vengeful and angry, then so must be heaven, and therefore hell would be a better place to go.

if heaven is full of the type of people who go apparently have to live their lives by blindly obeying the teachings of the bible, well no thanks, i refuse to spend eternity in a 24 hr church.

like i said before, there's a war amoungst the heavens for our souls, and we are only coal for the furnaces in the engines of war.

fuck that. i'm commanding an army. :P

religion is a good thing i think, but unfortunately, those who don't question the concept of god, or an afterlife, or etherael plains, they're nothing more than blind sheep and they deserve what they get. the slaughter yards.

but if they can think for themselves, and they still believe in some sort of god, then good for them. why? because they came to learn of their own god, they didn't follow a trend.

catholic belief is based off of one thing. the vatican's desire for power. even christians know that.

but i digress.

my point is, if you believe in god, fine. but you get in my face and tell me i'm going to hell. i'll consider that an attack on my character and an insult to my intelligence, and if you don't back off, i'll lead you in a quick prayer meeting. mind you, you'll be the one kneeling, not i. i kneel for no one. and any god worth my time would respect that.

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FaithInChaos · member Member # Joined: 27 Aug 2000 Posts: 183

Ragnarok:

quote:

The original god (the one jewish believe in) killed lots of people.
He was a vengative god who liked violence.
Oh, and there is no way you can provesomething doesn't exist.
You have to prove it actually exists

umm. jesus was a jew, when he refers to "God" it is the jewish one in which he is talking about (or to.).

i read something by stephen hawkings that roughly said: if you think god exists, he does; if you think god doesnt exist, he doesnt. so my guess would be you could prove god doesnt exist without having to prove that he does...using his theory, anyways.

Brue · Guest Member #

i personally agree with cable. well thats all i have to say. i've been here before against faust. its not fun. But hey, cable maybe u will be more succesful. I didnt know how to explain stuff to him and other ppl. maybe u will

faustgfx · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:16 am

religion is bullshit.

that's a fact.

it's your own fucking loss if you wish to believe in things that never existed.

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faustgfx · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:19 am

and what comes to cable's question;

i personally don't mind jesushippies in my proximity, as long as they keep their stuff to themselves and don't try to cram it down my throat.

and when somebody speaks of religion and love in the same sentence, and on top of that, come telling me that i'm wrong and the jesushippie is right, and i'm only afraid of the truth, the scythe grins.

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cable · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:21 am

thanks brue for the back up!
anyways im not trying to prove anything here at this moment. im not quite sure why faust thinks im shuving this jesus shit up his ass.
the thought of celebrating the 666th or the 1666th post is just beyond me i guess. faust you take these discussions too personally. this is not going to determine your future.

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faustgfx · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:25 am

my future is every day's today, which means the company project manager and his questions and requests.

that's all there is in to the whole future thing.

end of discussion, at least from my part. jesus went home before elvis; he copied jesus's idea.
make what you wish out of that.

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Bradford · Guest Member #

heh heh heh. *pulls out the rubber scythe. look at me! hur hur. time to kill some more people over religion.

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cable · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 12:28 am

think what you will faust, in the end we will see who was right!

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Starseed · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 2:54 am

quote

Quote:

now would you stop posting to this fucking thread, it's starting to get irritating

Take some of your own medicine if you want to kill the thread. Btw, I find it amusing that you would set it to have it email you when new messages arrive when you must check this board at least 20x daily. Save your inbox that much less clutter and stop complaining for the sake of hearing your own voice.

rndr70k · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 2:58 am

You're odd.

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[This message has been edited by rndr70k (edited January 05, 2001).]

HardCoil · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 2:58 am

quote:
Originally posted by Freddio:
ok Somebody Prove that God doesn't exist!
you can't so everyone shutup..

NO ! You proove that everything isn't run by 15 feet invisble hamsters with faster-than-light jetpacks !

You can't, so shut up OK ?

jcterminal · Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2001 11:37 am

quote:
Originally posted by HardCoil:
NO ! You proove that everything isn't run by 15 feet invisble hamsters with faster-than-light jetpacks !

You can't, so shut up OK ?

maybe that IS god?

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Affected · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:03 am

The operative word in "I believe" is not "believe". It is "I".

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faustgfx · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:05 am

depends on what you believe in.

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Affected · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:25 am

Not really. Unless you believe you don't exist.

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faustgfx · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:27 am

..and the the question why do you bother believing.

if it doesn't play a important role in your life, why care/believe.

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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
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faustgfx · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:29 am

by the way, you're supposed to be walking towards the office at this very moment, i'm starting to get irritated on the waiting, and have been forced to watch more anime. :|

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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
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Affected · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 4:34 am

Consider me en route.

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peter · Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:22 am

in school i had a discussion with some fanatic religious mormons.
i said: dont belive in god and the bible.
they said: image god is a lorry driver and he shouts to you to get out of his way (via the bible) and you dont listen to him and his car kills you. is it gods fault ?

though i am not religious i like the idea with this 15 feet invisible hamster with faster-than-light jetpacks. so is there a church for this god where i could join and pay lots of money ?

btw: outlook sux, netscape messenger for president.

cheers
peter

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