[Enayla]

Religion breeds war� let�s just face it, it does. The belief in �if I do what I believe in, I will get to heaven, but if you do what you believe in, you will get to hell� makes people arrogant, uptight, and self-righteous.

Honestly� sit back and think about it� how many wars have been started because of religious beliefs? More than one, eh? And why? Because �we are right and you are wrong�, an opinion that doesn�t even have any proof when it comes to religion. There�s no proof.

Who are you to say that your beliefs are more correct than mine? Who are you to claim that whatever you might put your trust in might actually affect me? What gives people of religion the right to claim that I, who do not believe, will end up in hell? They don�t just �believe� it, but they actually claim that I will� forgetting the fact that there is NO proof. It�s JUST belief, and as such, it must be treated the same as any other ideas. Until there is proof, honestly, you have no right to accuse anyone of �misbehaving� according to your faith � there�s nothing that says that your �faith� is correct.

So, religion breeds war� and it breeds war because people take their opinions (no, I correct myself � they do not even come up with their own opinions, they take old, outdated, narrow-minded ideas and try to (and often fail) adapt them to their lives) and attempt to fit everyone and everything into that.

I don�t mind religion as long as it doesn�t try to force itself upon me, which it so often does. Believe what you want! Go with the flow! Stick your head in a bucket for all I care, but keep the crap away from me. I�m not going to hell. I don�t believe in heaven nor hell� And even if they DO exist� I�m not going to spend my life playing a sheep that has to follow with the flock� I do not need an old book to tell me how to behave. I have common sense.


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[Genma]

Hehe, Enayla, Atleast when (and IF) you get in hell you can say "Atleast it was fun when i was alive!"

[Enayla]

Heheh, very fun

I think it's worth it.

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[Nex]

lucifer is actually latin for: "the one who bings/holds the light".

I see nothing 'satanic' or evil in this.

actually it is related to/derived from(?)/similar to the greek mythology story of Prometheus who left the Olymp (or however you write that in english) to bring fire and light to humans.
"fallen angel"

[sacrelicious]

Enayla: Really excellent post, I agree with you 100%. Believe what you will, but don't try to change my beliefs in the process. I just thought of the NIN/APC concert I saw in San Francisco a while ago. There were these religious fanatics with huges signs (I'm talking bigger than a full-grown man) telling us that God hates sin, that Jesus is our savior AND our judge, that we're all going to hell, etc. It was just ridiculous. If you choose to live your life a certain way, that's fine. Just don't come scream at some folks just trying to enjoy a concert (which was fucking awesome, by the way) and minding our own business. It was silly, just silly. Oh, and thanks, I'm glad you like my nick!

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[sacrelicious]

Nex: I missed your post at first, but it's a good one. The Greek myth of Prometheus and the story of Lucifer "the light-bringer," "the morning star," are related, as well as countless other tales. For example, there are striking similarities between the enlightenment of Buddha and the tale of Moses on Mt. Sinai, and the enlightenment of Jesus Christ. To me this indicates either an original, archetypal set of legends (i.e. Sumerian epics), or an integral part of the human psyche that expresses itself universally in the form of these stories. "The Hero With a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell is an excellent book that I've just begun to read that deals with these links and what Campbell calls the "monomyth," the root of all other world myths.

Also, does anyone else's keyboard ever stop accepting input? Mine did that right in the middle of writing this post and I had to restart. RRRgh!

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[This message has been edited by sacrelicious (edited January 04, 2001).]

[jcterminal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by cable:
think what you will faust, in the end we will see who was right!

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yeah. the buddhists.

suckers.



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[jcterminal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Genma:
Hehe, Enayla, Atleast when (and IF) you get in hell you can say "Atleast it was fun when i was alive!"

---

first thing i'm saying when i go to hell is:

"bitch, get out of my throne."


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[Wyatt Turner]

Wasted....

[ceenda]

Guys, it's 00:00 am but try and bear with me.

I've found this whole discussion extremely interesting.

At the end of the day, I think that people are generally intelligent enough to examine the evidence around them and make decisions based upon what they believe.

I've looked into a number of various religions, what they believe, and I have to say that many of them contain writings, sayings, and teachings that are most admirable.

Religion, Enayla, does not cause wars, intolerance does.

I was raised in a Protestant Christian family, and I am glad of the teachings that were handed down to me, though teachings in themselves are generally universal amongst a number of religions and cultures.

I have never been particalarly fond of what people might term 'humanism'. This may be down to the way I was brought up. Though, I am deeply concerned about the "If it feels good, do it" culture that seems to have arisen in a post-religous age. There are many things I would like to do but I know that these things are morally objectonable and hence I obstain. I was interested to note faustgfx's views on pornography, and in many ways I would find faustgfx's countenance more reliable than many 'religious' people I meet.



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Nicholas Anderson
email: [email protected]
web: Flying Islands
-- affiliates --
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[faustgfx]

girls exist, god doesn't.

try to fucking argue against that.



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the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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[Bradford]

this is my 2 cents: religion was created to help people cope with the fear of death. then science came along. science imo is the real truth, there is straight hard facts to back it up. i don't believe there is some spirit that created us especially when there is no proof it has ever existed.

i would also like to say i do not think anyone here is right or wrong. everyone is entitled to their own opinion/beliefs. i personally think religion is healthy for some people, but it ain't my cup of coffee.
religion (again, imo) gives people morals, virtues, and a sense that they will go somewhere when they die. i have to come to face reality that this isn't the case and i am one of the happiest people i know.

please remember it's my view. im not trying to say anyone is wrong. so please do not argue back against me

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[ceenda]

Bradford: Okay, Bradford take your test tubes into the lab and do the experiment that's going to prove that God doesn't exist.

I am interested in a number of sciences and I mean this in a humourous way.

[Freddio]

where did everything come from?

where did that rock out side come from? where the hell did that massive universe come from? I can't imagine it being there infinately, there has to be a start somewhere? what was here before the universe?

why the hell are people still goin on about this dude who died 2001 years ago? you would think the craze would die off after say a hundred years.. but its hasnt.. Why?

maby their is a higher bien helping the craze along for another 2000 years?

[faustgfx]

i say we nuke em.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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[Freddio]

ok Somebody Prove that God doesn't exist!

you can't so everyone shutup..

The greatest achievement by satain is convincing the world he doesn't exist...

uh oh.. Looks like Faust is in a bit of trouble

[faustgfx]

oh? is god going to land through the mediaclick building's roof and walk up to me and banish me to oblivion...?

i am so scared. i just might piss my fucking pants 'cause i'm so shivering. the sheer propability at which it'll happen is amazing!

whatever. christians are fucked in the head, religion is waste of time, and when some kid from america comes trying to cram that shit up my ass with a fucking industrial size pressure drill to aid in pounding it up, i do not like it. even more so when he in the end claims that it's actually me who's trying to feed jesusbullshit to myself. and can't figure out when to stop. or take the hint.

sorry, if god comes down to earth to punish me, i'll assfuck him to death.

when i die and something goes wrong and i end up in the grand jury of heaven, i'll assfuck them all to death.

that's my opinion on jesushippies right now, like it or not, and SOMEHOW i doubt you can say anything that'll change my mind.

yes, that is supposed to be offending, whether it works or not is beyond me.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
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[Bradford]

where did everything come from? we do not know. and we can't create some excuse for it either.

ceenda: im not saying science is proving god doesn't exist. im saying science is the true belief to me. one isn't cancelling out the other. i just can't believe in something that has never had any known evidence of actually existing. i don't question the bible, i think religion is great. read my last post again. im not saying people who believe in a god are idiots. religion drives people to do great a wonderfull things. it just doesn't register in my head. can't help it.

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[faustgfx]

by the way, are you blind to the words "end of discussion" ?

do not come whining to me about my behaviour, i did not cross the fucking line here, and i was not the one who didn't take the hints, and i was not the one trying to cram jesuspropaganda to someone's brain, other than trying to get some fucking kid tell me his own illusionary truths of life in a manner that's irritating, obscene, full of shit, and just won't quit.




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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
http://faustgfx.0wns.org

[Enayla]

In many ways, religion has proven itself to be very intolerant. I have yet to meet more than two or three religious people who didn�t try to tell me that I would go to hell for my heathen ways (and trust me, I�m actually a pretty decent lass). I, on the other hand, would never go knocking doors trying to convince people NOT to believe. That�s their business.

As to how it all started� I don�t know. I don�t really care, either. I don�t think there /is/ a way to know, and I certainly won�t put my trust in books that claim that this or that fellow kick-started the whole thing.

Why should I?

I put more trust in myself than in books that are thousands years old and have been rewritten over and over again � and proven false in many ways. Besides, if we�re going with the �if you can�t prove it HASN�T happened, it might have� theory, I�m going to start to claim that the world was created by the giant banana cockroach, named Hulk� can you prove that I�m not right?

We can�t prove there�s no aliens. We can�t prove there�s no ghosts. We can�t prove (or maybe we can, heheh) that Elvis isn�t dead. We can�t prove that the person writing this or that post in this forum isn�t exactly god himself. We can�t prove that this isn�t just some giant playground created by a bunch of children to have fun.

So? That doesn�t exactly mean that I believe in all these things just because of that�.


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[faustgfx]

"the bible is just a gilgamesh rip-off. a poor one at that."



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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[ceenda]

Bradford: He he, just joking. The reason I mention is that a lecturer mentioned it recently.

[Freddio]

"if god comes down to earth to punish me, "


why would God bother to come down when, Satain owns your sole.

like is said,
The greatest achievement by satain is convincing the world he doesn't exist...
so hes got you maaannnnn..

YOU GONINg Down ClowN... YOUr STuffed MAn.

AARGHhhhhhh

[Nex]

well.. if this "god" would come over to faust's place please send him to me afterwards.. he owes me some explanations:

-why do humans have to suffer all their lives

-what do we have prove here? why are we not all in heaven right away?

-why does he never answer

-why do we have to part with the ones we love

but the fact that I don't believe in that kind of "god" saves him all this trouble.

[Bradford]

ceenda:

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[Scorchmon]

These discussions are always fun. Here are some thoughts:

Reincarnation: Unfortunately, I think reincarnation is the only definite religious belief that I can agree as existing. Why unfortunate, because I don't like the idea of having to go through another life where I'm probably not going to enjoy the experience. It makes sense however because of such things as the scientific theory of the conservation of matter. When your body decomposes after death, the matter that was your body will eventually become apart of somebody/something else.

Organized Religion: I hate these types of religions (I sense I'm not the only one)because they are basically just a huge set of rules that you need to follow so that you won't face eternal suffering. It's like I said earlier that it's only there to control a large amount of people. Look at the catholic church during the middle ages. Its only purpose was to use religion to get what it wanted. Also, there's that thing called "the divine right of kings." Anyway, even if there was such a thing as eternal suffering, after a while of this suffering, you would forget what pleasure is and become immune to the pain.

Individual Opinions: I'm all for everyone having their own opinion and religious views. The only thing that upsets me is when someone holds a view that is not really their own. A lot of people are just told what they should believe in rather than them actually trying to formulate their beliefs on their own or at least analyzing what they were taught to believe. My parents tried to raise me to believe in christianity. I really had no choice other than to accept it until I began questioning it for myself. The day I came to the conclusion that it's just another myth remains in my memory as a day I was very happy.

ceenda: Most religions by their very nature teach intolerance. Look at judaism and islam. Those two religions cause the problems in the middle east because both religions contain the message that only their religion is the one true religion. Thus, the followers of those religions attack each other because they think the other side is wrong and an enemy for taking up an opposing religion. That's why there are always religious wars. Cable could have just tolerated faustgfx's first messages, but because of religion, cable had to display intolerance over joking about an aspect of christianity.

I can't argue with that faustgfx.

Bradford: I think religions created the fear of death in the first place. What's to fear about death unless it's going to be a point at which you are judged to receive eternal suffering or happiness?

[Edit] The replies to people were based on messages on the 2nd page.

[This message has been edited by Scorchmon (edited January 04, 2001).]

[faustgfx]

Nex,

- and why did he take my modem out with a lightning strike back in '98 ?



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
http://faustgfx.0wns.org

[Nex]

I hope god has a good insurance company.

[Scorchmon]

Freddio, I guess that just shows that god doesn't really give a damn about anyone (that is if he/she/it existed) even though the christian bible supposedly said otherwise.

[Ragnarok]

The original god (the one jewish believe in) killed lots of people.
He was a vengative god who liked violence.

Oh, and there is no way you can provesomething doesn't exist.
You have to prove it actually exists