[coconutmonkey]

Ok today in art at school we were assigned our first clay project of the year. We have to create a room. We're going to make a floor and 2 walls the floor will be roughly 8x11 inches. We were told by my art teacher that it could be any room we wanted and to take the assignment "a step further". Ok well everyone else was doing like a living room or some sort of room inside of a house and I was trying to think of my idea. We were to sketch out our idea. After we made our room we're going to paint it. Ok after showing my idea to my teacher she got this disgusted look on her face and shot me down worse than any teacher has before. Here was my idea tell me what you think. Ok my walls and floor would roughly be all black if not close to it and texturized. In the center of the back wall would be a person sort of changed by his hands to the wall and limp. He would be so low that the middle of his theighs intersect with the floor. His legs would sort of melt and conform to the floor as if it's all one piece. Then around him are pipes going from wall to wall from wall to floor etc. Ok like I said before the walls and floor would be black well every object at it's most furthest point from a wall or floor would be completely white and as it went to a surface it faded to black. OK thats roughly my idea I hope yall get the general idea. Ok after telling her this she told me that i should do something more normal that she doesnt want me to make something that people will look up at and it will stand out and people will gasp at. That really kinda pissed me off. Tell me what your thoughts are on this.

[Visigoth]

Okay, forgive my insolence, but your art teacher seems pretty fucking wack. Isn't self expression what art is about?

~{V}~
P.S. For anyone that's interested, I'm working on a poster of the virgin mary masturbating with a crucifix (no joke) and am going to send it to the vatican.

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Your car is a fiberglass penis extension.

[Matt Elder]

I've never done an art class and this appears to be the reason why. I don't like people telling me what I can't do, tell me what I can do. I guess for some 'mainstream' thing this might be a little too dark. Maybe if you used deep reds and purples you could get the same effect only making it a little more 'fun' which the teacher might like. Maybe try to find out specifically why the teacher doesn't like it, find out what 'normal' means.

I always got kicked out of classes in high school and uni for challenging teachers/lecturers who seemed to look down on independant thought, so try to do it with a little tack.

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See ya on da flip side
Matt
http://www.mattelder.com

[Delucubus]

One thing i can say: F*** that!

Do your idea, screw what your teacher says. Don't conform, be outrageous, be different. However on the other hand, if the teacher is going to grade you lower because of it, i might consider just doing the assignment. Unless of course you don't care about that.

But anyway, i like your idea, and you should go with it.

[Lukias]

Art teachers suck.....(not all, for those teachers present) from my experience and others that I've heard. Unshaven hairy armpited feminist tree huggers, thats what my art teachers were..

Anyway, your'e idea sounds sweet to me, did she get really specific with what she wanted or just let you have a go at it only then to tell you that thats not what she's after...... Probably the later.

If she doesn't like it and is basically telling you that this is not alowed then I don't suppose youv'e got a choice, but hold onto it and do it in your own time...any practise is good practise.

Art's weird, there's no such thing as right and wrong, it all depends on what your'e after. Art's purely personal opinion and art teachers opinion's are just opionion's (though they'll have experience behind it, it still doesn't make it right or wrong)

[coconutmonkey]

Wow so i'm not alone in this *phew*. It really pissed me off and well I'm thinking about going ahead and doing but yea my grade depends heavily upon it not to mention I have 3 more semesters with this teach til graguation next year....

[Guybrush]

well, that would piss me off too, you think you have a kinda special idea, and then this.. pah.. fuck your teacher ! :/

i'd do this room anyway, even if i'd get a bad mark for it afterwards just cos the teacher is so stupid !

and visigoth, yeah, i am interested LOL !! would love to see that poster when finished, and also i'd love to hear what the vatican has got to say about it.. hehe

[LethargicBoy]

sometimes you don't have to be outrageous to make a statement, it's so much more gratifying to add subtle little details that are easily overlooked that only the carefull observer will discover! I'd would make a normal looking room with a whole in the wall and weird spheres "leaking" out or something, i dunno, maybe i'm just crazy...

[Visigoth]

Guybrush; I'm hoping it'll get on the news or something...That'd be kickass...hehe One of the best ways to make a name for yourself, is do something heinous. ;D~

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Your car is a fiberglass penis extension.

[Francis]

This is not going to be a popular point of view, but...

It depends HEAVILY on what the teacher's intention was with this assignment. I had a number of life drawing classes in school, with a lot of art majors (I was an architecture student). Now, the intent of this class was to learn the basics of figure drawing, to study anatomy, the whole nine yards. Here's what kind of bugged me about that situation: nobody in the class was interested in learning the basics - everyone already was an expert, and everyone had their "vision" to share with the class. Nothing wrong with that at all, in other circumstances, but the PURPOSE of the class was to learn basics, anatomy, proportion, form, all the stuff that you really (IMHO) need to know before you start going off the wall. I feel that if you have those chops already, it gives your other stuff more credibility. How hard is it to study the model, and then come up with something that looks like a subway diagram?

Now in the case of this assignment, it could be that the teacher intended this to be a design exercise, or a rendering exercise - just like the cube exercise that Spooge and Fred conducted a while back. It does you no good for that exercise to draw some sort of mechanical-orgy Giger-cubes. The point of that drill was to learn (only) values, proportion, perspective and lighting.

Drawing a "normal" room might not be as fun as drawing some weird ass hellraiser torture chamber room, but maybe the purpose with this exercise isn't simply to express whatever pops into your head. Art isn't JUST about spewing just anything onto a page and calling it art. There is a whole universe of technique and ways of seeing that go into the simplest pieces of art.

This is just my opinion, and I certainly am not arguing against freedom of expression - I just want to point out that sometimes the boring exercises have their place.

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[Lukias]

True...how true

They still had hairy armpits though....

[anticz]

I'm sure this will be unpopular as well but, Do what your teacher asks. You're there to learn! They're there to teach. If your teacher doesn't like the direction you're taking an assignment, they probably have good reason.

1. The assingment is intended to be a basic design or perspective or shading,...Ect. study.
2. The assingment is intended to evaluate your skill level.
3. Doesn't matter what the assingment is intended to be. Get used to it. In the real world, if the client doesn't like the direction you're going, YOU WILL HAVE TO CHANGE IT. You're not always going to like what you're working on.

Sorry for the rant.

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Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
PrestoStudios
anticz.com
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[aNoah]

Yeah, well art classes can be a b*tch if they are making you do basics. Personally, I think that you should do your own room... do a really nice job on it, and if she doesn't like it, appeal it before a council or something.

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-aNoah
My Gallery

[coconutmonkey]

Francis and Antcicz you guys have really good points and i Do agree with you. The thing is my teacher was very vague in what she wanted and basically only told me what i did was NOT what she wanted, and when i asked her why she didnt like it so that on my next design I wouldnt make the same mistake she told me she didnt want to argue. My teacher's always saying how she wants us to take our projects a step further and stand out but she turns on me and tells me not to. I later found out that people in other classes are doing dungens and the like which kinda pissed me off. Oh well I might end up doing something just boring and unoriginal like everyone else in the classroom.

[n8]

Well all i can say is listen to the Greenday song..they tell u to "be the minority, u dont need no athority and skrew the mornon majority!!"
Your teech is prob pissed coz its more like the dungeons that the other class is doing...mabey theyre running a kinda of experiments on the students to see what kind of artists they become by teeching the students diff stuff??..wooo...ITS A CONSPIRACY!!!

[anticz]

Here's the thing. Do whatever will make your teacher happy. Think of her as a client. Then, do the dark cube torture room also, for yourself.

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Mike B. - Supervising Janitor
PrestoStudios
anticz.com
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[coconutmonkey]

Yea that's what i decided on, no reason in getting a bad grade over something so trifle.

[Shadowman]

Coconut, the only thing I can say is make your statement and stick to your guns. I don't think a art teacher should discourage his/her students. Look at H R Giger' s work. I personally think that his work is awesome but, some people would say that it is disgusting. If he listened to them the Alien movies would have never been so cool looking and Giger wouldn't be making those big bucks. It's those exceptionally different artists that people remember.

[Transcendence]

hm..I havent read the whole thread, but it seems as if evil art teachers are quite an often happening. My art teacher is all for "to hell with mainstream." Another guy and I were tlaking to her about wanting careeers in art, she asked what exactly we wanted to do, we told her, and the first thing she said was "why do you want to be common or average? why not become a great?" not exact words, but that's pretty much what she said..

[waylon]

I've had my fair share of art teachers. Some that push you to "express yourself" and draw something that makes a statement, others that push you to do your cube exercizes and draw from life as much as possible.

I learned far more in the second type of class, even though it wasn't nearly as much fun. And at the end of the semester, I could go and draw my creepy dungeon pics or what have you, and they would be ten times better than if I had spent a whole semester being "creative".

Though it sounds like in your case, coconutmonkey, your teacher just isn't very good. My Drawing 1 teacher (one who made us do lots of tedius exercises) always made sure we knew exactly what we were trying to do with an assignment, and what we were supposed to get out of it. I mean... it wasn't all just tedium, but we always had restrictions, and we always knew why. Much better way to learn, I think.

[This message has been edited by waylon (edited October 26, 2000).]

[egerie]

Eheheeh that reminds me of my first year drawing teacher... She was the toughest hard assed teacher I've ever had.. Of course the college board put her for the newbies to BREAK THEM and mainly to discourage everyone so only the most willing would stand out. Kind of natural selection due to an overcrowded art department mainly with students that thought it was the easy way to get a college diploma.
I passionatly hated her , cried after some reaaally nasty comments from her on my artwork and still she's now probably the one I hold most respect to
Oh btw, she worked with Le Corbusier (get out your art refs books ppl), so she knew what the heck she was talking about.
Her first and last *good* comment to me on the last course of the year "Well ! You're starting to learn !".......lol !

What I'm trying to say is that of course it's hard to take critisism at first. But it can make you practice your diplomatic skills in a civil DIALOGUE and explain your point of view to the teacher without neccesarly imposing anything in a joust.
Anyway, I was cocky, hot headed, hard headed and very angry at my first year but you're there to learn the basics. I quite agree with what Francis said on that.

I'm not saying your teacher is a saint or 100% right because I don't know her. I don't know her motivations or what. I had a plain heinous teacher who decided to hold a personal grudge against me for undisclosed reasons. Got flammed in front of everyone at first given chance, etc. But then there will always be twisted pricks to bring you down. Just learn as much as you can from your teachers wether it's knowledge, hard work on your behalf or temperance.

ege
Where the heck did all that came from ?

[BlackFork]

Well, Here we go. I went through a similar experience in an art class. I told my idea and the instructor said "No". Well I bitched and moaned about artistic freedom and all that jazz. The instructor said these (paraphrased) word of wisdom...

Don't think that art school is about self-expression ONLY. You are there to learn FIRST. Too many people use far out idea to hide lack of knowledge and/or technique. If you are asked to draw, design or build a room that marvel in it's complex simplicity. Ask some one to draw a door sometime. ( times out of 10 you'll get a rectangle with a simple doorknob. No details. Hinges? nope Door frame? not there. Imperfections in the surface? sorry What about the moulding? Eh it's just a door. But check out this vagiuna-like interdimensional portal. Creative, huh?\
Probably not. Try to think of the class as a working environment and your instructor is your client. They usually tell you what they want and expect you to follow their parameters. Not exciting but necessary. AND for ever 5 clients you have that want the mundane you'll have one or two who'll say "Go nuts!!!" Eventually, your higher level classes will let you run free. Knowledge and even mastery of the basics make you a better artist. Picasso knew his shit backwards and forwards. Look how he molded his knowledge into the artwork the world knows him for.

[BlackFork]

To Visigoth-

"One of the best ways to make a name for yourself, is do something heinous. ;D"

Actually, that just give you your 15 minutes.

Remember Andre Serrano?

More than likely your drawing of the Virgin Mary will be trashed. Every thing you do is not art. Art is meant to educate the soul. To make the person viewing it think and wonder on some level. If you do you drawing to make a statement, you're doing it for the right reasons. If you're doing it to make a name for yourself, your being a hack. An artist Can become a hack. A hack can Never become an artist.

[exo]

My art teacher is just the same. I dont care what she says i do it anyways.
And most of the time she likes it when im done.

It sux big time but not everyone have the same taste of art.

She's more of an "throw a paintbucket on a canvas" sort of person.
And i dont really call that art.

-exo

[Rinaldo]

I have a problem with people who "don't want to argue". if your teacher doesn't make it clear as to what she's teaching then what is the point of teaching it? and if you take it up with her and she doesn't want to talk it's a falure to teach as far as I'm concerned. if a student doesn't understand the meaning of the task and how it is going to help them they are not going to be motivated, the result is bad moral and slow learning.
a lot of the time you have to do stuff you don't want to, and sometimes one just has to trust in a teacher's ability and knowlage.
but bad comunication as seems to be happeing in this case is a very bad habit in almost any industry, and should not be cultivated by teachers. it is one of the most important things, if you can't comunicate you will fail no matter how good your art is. Often real world job will have a brief, clearaly stating what the task is (and the times it doesn't, things usuialy don't go smoothly).

Doesn't matter what the task is, there is an art to teaching and bad comunication is not the place to start.
I've often thought that something is pointless but after talking to the teacher and finding out what the skills I'll be learining will be usefull for I'm more than happy to do it. Sometimes you just have to take someone on their word, but if she can't talk about it then one can only assume that she doesn't know what to say and has no real argument.

There are always two sides to a coin, if someone's not willing to talk about theirs then screw them.


[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited October 27, 2000).]

[garuda_x]

what school is that? what art school do you go to? are you somewhere in the bible belt? is it sunday school...? hehe, but seriously folks... the idea sound neat. in clay no less......a room...in clay. that could be fun. sculpture is just soooo damn fun. dirty hands....physical return on effort.......instant gratification from wiewing the result.... justmake your piece and give her the finger.....post up some of your previz drawings...that would be cool....


as a post script: classes in art are great. all these posts dissing school are just born from ignorance and lack of good instructors.....even if the instructors are bad, its really the student who needs to rise to thier own standard levels. classes let you surround yourself with others who are interested in studying the same thing, or a great place to have a good mentor.....by mentor i mean studying under a master.....tehy will help you to understand the priciples of design such as proportion, volume, use of space, color theory, juxtaposition, tempo....things like that. there are so many artists that are completely unaware of perpective, proportion and what not that it is really sad, and they go on for so long, that they would improve a thousand fold by just learning from what has been done before them (standing onthe shoulders of giants, if you will....)
hell, even chrispooge went to art center to get down w/ the illustration and fine arts training. and it is evident when you see people that have studied light behaviour and what not. the whole sort of learning the rules before you can break them..... i guess there are the people that are gonna say " i am a badass and never went to school" yeah sure, i guess there are exceptions to every rule, but i have found that they come few and far between... find a good instructor, and learn all you can from him/her. then find anotherone and be a sponge for all of the the dope shit they got until your head pops off your neck and your hands automatically know how to make what your minds eye is seeing....

_x


[This message has been edited by garuda_x (edited October 27, 2000).]